Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[OceanWind]

Kop claimed doc.

[ProHawk]

Wait, I forgot Kop...

I think you're (Ocean) town...

[ProHawk]

Okay, so I guess that checks out with the Doc claim. I guess Kop can be town which would mean Ranger looks even worse?

[ProHawk]

If all the claimed PR's are town, then that really leaves Ranger, Flubber, and Marge as scum.

[ProHawk]

How balsy is it for scum to claim PR's here?

[ProHawk]

Looks pretty balls to the wall claiming roles randomly here...

[OceanWind]

Your point about Kop is actually a good one. Unless the serial killer is being roleblocked every night or is deliberately withholding kills, it would point to Kop-town.

Well, if Marge is town, the game will end soon as she voted us. If not, that confirms Marge as scum to me. Going to wait and see but I'm not expecting the game to end. I don't buy her push as a town one.

[OceanWind]

Looked at the setup more closely. I didn't get Persivul was saying earlier but if there's no serial killer which is a decent assumption to make, then Kop should be town. That leaves three scum and just one town among Marge, Flubbernugget, Prohawk, and Ranger. I don't think Prohawk and Ranger are partnered together. Marge and Flubber very well could be. Flubber spends a lot of time saying Marge is scum but doesn't really follow up on it choosing alternate targets instead.

[OceanWind]

Spoiler: Flubber's mentions of Marge

Post 55 - Votes Marge for opposing massclaim.
Post 116 and Post 179 - Follows up on it saying that she opposed the plan twice and then claimed.
Post 181 - Chains Marge's scumflip to two other players but is vague on who those players are.
Post 241 - Fence-sits by saying he likes that Marge is wagoned but also telegraphs himself as disliking the votes on it.
Post 478 - Asks Marge if she did anything useful yet.
Post 485 - Questions the blocky wagon claiming that Marge should be preferable.
Post 1240 - Calls the scumteam as Ocean, ETL, and Marge and votes me.
Post 1409 - If not me, then he could vote Marge or Ythan.
Post 1412 - Likes Marge's FB defense but D1 play still bugs him.
Post 1585 - Says Ocean and Marge are still scum.

@Flubber -

Consistently, you've had Marge as scum from the beginning to end but why were your pushes always on players other than Marge? Most of the time you've been pushing me with Marge just being a sideline scumread. D1, when she got flak for the claiming after being against a massclaim, you hopped on with the others to push her but she stopped taking centerstage attention, you placed her to the side to persue me instead.

Checking Marge's ISO for Flubber, the only thing of significance she does is respond to Flubber's accusations with youtube videos and links to the dictionary.

I think the scum is Marge and Flubber with one of Prohawk or Ranger filling in that last slot. Leaning towards it being Ranger based on Flubber's very extended push on me when I initially voted Ranger D1.

VOTE: Marge

[Ranger]

At this point, I do think that, unless the masons are scum, Marge has to be scum.

So I'm willing to risk the game on this.

VOTE: Marge.

[Marge]

2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"

And

if

Kop is a real doctor, then scum had reason to fear a kill attempt.

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

...And mafia wouldn't?

The rest of those look like smart mason play. I don't see explicit calling out of Ocean being scum. I see soft defenses of him that don't paint a neon sign saying, "SHOOT ME OR OCEAN BECAUSE WE ARE MASONS".

Your posting is looking more and more like cornered scum.

That is not fucking soft defending.

[Marge]

Meh go ahead and lynch me.
It's ranger, persivul and ocean as scum obviously.
I get stuck with those that aren't playing the game as town.


Prohawk, there is nothing ballsy about the claim.
Persivul never said anything the day before so if ocean wasflipped yesterday his hands are clean, today is lylo so now the story sticks.

[Marge]

Just read this again and ask why range sees this as soft defending.

As promised I'm using quotes to show why I see the mason claim is fake as shit.

Blocky shouldn't be at L-1. Agreeing with the current wagons can be opportunistic. It can also mean that the people on those wagons are making good arguments and persuading people, which is what town is supposed to do. I rather think someone is opportunistic when they make abrupt changes from one wagon to another.

On the positive side, he noted that Ranger is buddying, which is something I thought too after Ranger proposed a town block.

Four people - Kraeg, Ocean, Kop, ETL - have post counts in the single digits. I'll bet there's 1-2 scum there. From the rest I'm suspicious of Marge and Ranger.

I hate Titus' breaking idea, but I butt heads with Titus on breaking almost every time we play together so that's not giving me a read.

Ocean is listed as players that are low posting and maybe scum.

Reads preview:

Town - Flubber, ETL
Lean town - Ythan

Lean scum - Kop
Scum - Margeside

Will sort the rest later.

Maybe people could put up reads instead of bare votes so we actually have something to analyze...

Ocean is not on town list.

Firebringer's ISO reads like a heckler at open mike night. He just criticizes other people's pushes but doesn't make any of his own. I forgot that he even advocated no lynch at one point.

I wouldn't mind lynching him either, but I prefer getting the ocean flip first.

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Asking about a case on ocean instead of saying ocean is town.

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Are you trying to outdo Flubber as far as dumb is concerned or do you not know how to read the "pronoun" section of someone's profile tag?

I didn't notice
oceanwind's a feminine
guy name are you gay

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

someone please tell me
what the charges are on him
and maybe we will

This post is in regards to ocean being scum read.
Again not defending and saying maybe lynch.

Anyone thinking that lynching there mason buddy is playing to your win condition let me know.

In the meantime.

Vote: persivul

Also getting the satisfaction of telling ythan he was wrong about persivul gives me some satisfaction.
I'm sure he'll still bitch

[Persivul]

As promised I'm using quotes to show why I see the mason claim is fake as shit.

Spoiler:

Blocky shouldn't be at L-1. Agreeing with the current wagons can be opportunistic. It can also mean that the people on those wagons are making good arguments and persuading people, which is what town is supposed to do. I rather think someone is opportunistic when they make abrupt changes from one wagon to another.

On the positive side, he noted that Ranger is buddying, which is something I thought too after Ranger proposed a town block.

Four people - Kraeg, Ocean, Kop, ETL - have post counts in the single digits. I'll bet there's 1-2 scum there. From the rest I'm suspicious of Marge and Ranger.

I hate Titus' breaking idea, but I butt heads with Titus on breaking almost every time we play together so that's not giving me a read.

Ocean is listed as players that are low posting and maybe scum.

Of course. How do I just list 3 people under single digits when there were 4? You don't get how to play mason. Until you claim, you need to maintain some amount of independence, or scum will spot it and kill you.

Spoiler:

Reads preview:

Town - Flubber, ETL
Lean town - Ythan

Lean scum - Kop
Scum - Margeside

Will sort the rest later.

Maybe people could put up reads instead of bare votes so we actually have something to analyze...

Ocean is not on town list.

Same issue. At that point in the game I didn't have a good independent case that ocean was town, so I left him off the list. You can't just go saying your partner is town if you're not ready to back it up.

Spoiler:

Firebringer's ISO reads like a heckler at open mike night. He just criticizes other people's pushes but doesn't make any of his own. I forgot that he even advocated no lynch at one point.

I wouldn't mind lynching him either, but I prefer getting the ocean flip first.

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Asking about a case on ocean instead of saying ocean is town.

Come on Marge, you're not this dumb. I correctly put this post in my list of defenses of ocean. "In thread ocean hasn't pinged me" is clearly a defense. I likewise asked for a case because at that point, not much had been put forward. I followed up on that point with 1339 1382 and 1464 showing how weak the supposed case was.

Spoiler:

In thread ocean hasn't pinged me. I need to read her ISO. What are the top points of the case on her?

Are you trying to outdo Flubber as far as dumb is concerned or do you not know how to read the "pronoun" section of someone's profile tag?

I didn't notice
oceanwind's a feminine
guy name are you gay

Mason's would have already discussed gender at this point in a pt.

You actually support our claim with this point.

In 2-person pt you talk in second person - you - which isn't gender specific, so it never came up.

However, the setup shows there are 3 scum. In 3-person pt, it's more likely (though not certain) that he/she would have been used at times and gender would have come up.

Spoiler:

someone please tell me
what the charges are on him
and maybe we will

This post is in regards to ocean being scum read.
Again not defending and saying maybe lynch.

Anyone thinking that lynching there mason buddy is playing to your win condition let me know.

Again, pointing out the lack of a case is indeed a way of defending, as shown above.

Now let's look at your views on the claim:

Vote: ocean

Yesterday you vote ocean.

In 1569 ocean claims mason.

I have theory so I'm going to do something else with my vote.

Vote: Kop

After the claim, you change your vote on an unexplained theory. This is despite your claim in 988 that you "don't vote on theories."

In 1604 you move your vote to ETL, and you explain the vote in 1614, saying (emphasis added):

All she's done is lurk and hop onto wagons.

I like my vote. Pushing a vote on a claimed Mason.
Not waiting for it to be verified.

You want to call that town I'll look at you like:

The scum motivation of your play yesterday is obvious:

You liked the ocean wagon.

Ocean claimed mason. You couldn't stay on a PR wagon before lylo. You didn't want to vote ETL because the ETL/Ocean/Persivul fight was beneficial to scum. So, you changed your vote to Kop, but needed an explanation. You say you have an unstated theory as your explanation, despite your previous claim that you don't vote on theory.

When the Kop wagon doesn't take off, you settle for ETL and move your vote to her. You need a reason, and you say

"Pushing a vote on a claimed Mason."

But, you want to push Ocean yourself tomorrow when it's lylo, so you set that up by saying

"Not waiting for it to be verified."

But you know darn well that the only verification a mason can get is a claim from their partner, which has now been given. There's nothing else a mason can do to verify their claim.

You said you don't vote on theories, then you voted on a theory. You lynched ETL for pushing an unverified mason claim, now you're pushing a verified mason claim.

VOTE: Marge

[Persivul]

2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim

fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"

What are you talking about?

Firebringer apparently accepted the mason claim, as in 1590 he unvoted ocean due to the claim.

In his last post 1610, he was promoting Kop for a lynch, not me or Ocean.

If we were scum, we would have had no motivation to kill fire.

You're just making shit up now in desperation.

[Marge]

2 players attacked ocean and finally even after the claim

fire is killed over the "claimed Mason"

What are you talking about?

Firebringer apparently accepted the mason claim, as in 1590 he unvoted ocean due to the claim.

In his last post 1610, he was promoting Kop for a lynch, not me or Ocean.

If we were scum, we would have had no motivation to kill fire.

You're just making shit up now in desperation.

You mean the player calling ocean scum up until the claim that one?
The one that wasn't scum reading me?
Pfft.
Your hysterical.

All of the rest is crap.
You do not ask or say you will lynch so one that is Mason if you are Mason.
Ever!
That is bs and you know it and I know it.

Anyways there is 3 votes on me, I know I'm town, just waiting now to see if the 3 voting me are scum.

[Marge]

How balsy is it for scum to claim PR's here?

Oh and just FTR persivul was in this game where ika fake claimed mason
And there was talk about jingle going along with it.

[Persivul]

How balsy is it for scum to claim PR's here?

Oh and just FTR persivul was in this game where ika fake claimed mason
And there was talk about jingle going along with it.

ika fakeclaimed mason in that game and he was lynched...so you're charging me with emulating an

unsuccessful

strategy I saw in another game.

[Kop]

VOTE: Marge

I'm fairly happy with my vote there. I just am not convinced at her arguements towards the two masons.

[farside22]

Well you lynched town.
Good job there

[farside22]

Can't believe people bought that Mason claim.
So many people doing no scum hunting this game and what did I say day 1, watch town lose.
Wish I had not fought my lynch day 1.
So many mistakes.
Not voting as Titus said.
Tunnel on Kop/pervisal as a scum team for a long time.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #4.2 (FINAL):

Marge:

OceanWind, Ranger, Persivul, Kop (4)

Persivul:

Marge (1)

Not Voting:

Flubbernugget, ProHawk

With 7 people alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

V/LA:

None

Deadline:

(expired on 2015-11-16 10:32:00)

[Rob14]

Marge,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched Day 4.

Kop,

Town Doctor

, has been endgamed Day 4.
Flubbernugget,

Vanilla Townie

, has been endgamed Day 4.
ProHawk,

Vanilla Townie

, has been endgamed Day 4.

Mafia wins!

Persivul,

Mafia Roleblocker

, as well as OceanWind and Ranger,

Mafia Goons

, have won!

[Rob14]

This post isn't intended to be mean, just accurate.

This may have been the worst display of town play I have ever seen. I'll just hit the big points and let ETL yell at you all for the rest.

1) When a mason claims, he immediately claims his partner or he dies, period. If it's a true claim, he'll die overnight and you'll lose the benefit of a conftown in the next day. If it's a false claim, making him claim will give you a second scum if you ever lynch him. There is no benefit to a town mason not to claim their partner after they claim, since it just introduces insane WIFOM in later days where scum can counter-claim the mason partner in LyLo if the first one is dead.

2) Masons are not confirmed until one of them dies, ever. The benefit of masons is being able to bounce ideas off conftown within the mason group as well as being able to confirm a townie via your flip. There are no other benefits to masons. Equating a mason claim with conftown is as bad as equating a cop claim with conftown before you get any usable results. It's awful.

3) Kop was conftown in Day 4 because without his claim, the setup would have a serial killer. No-one realized this, ever. The masons were not conftown in Day 4 because with or without their claims, there would not be a serial killer. You know there's no serial killer because of the lack of second kill, or at least you can infer that with a very high probability.

4) No, you shouldn't no lynch in LyLo. Good lord.

5) No, you shouldn't claim letters/roles in the early game, period. Scum know how many T's are in the game based on their role (or at least they know them plus or minus 1, since they don't know if a serial killer is present). This information allows them to fake claim easily. There are several fake claims that can't be countered or have a very low probability of being countered. full doc, for instance. And it's a role that's easy to "fake", just claim that you protected someone other than the NK. There's no roles in this setup to track or w/e to prove they're lying. Alternatively, they can claim VT. Since fake claims are possible, you can't insta-clear all claimed PRs like Titus seemed to suggest, so you've gained no info related to who is scum, and you've given up lots of info to scum. Claiming letters, PR or VT, or full roles is scum's wet dream; it tells them exactly where to shoot to hit the PRs early. It turns this game into mountainous very quickly, and the numbers in this setup aren't good for town winning in mountainous. I seriously disagree with Titus on this strategy.

6) The scum team was

incredibly

obvious. I'm not just saying this due to modsight. Persivul egged ETL to self-hammer and then said she should be banned for it. Ocean was incredibly opportunistic. Ranger did not scumhunt in a single post, and there were serious relational tells between him and Persivul (major coaching from Persivul, in particular). Persivul scum-read Ranger all game, but kept pushing counter-wagons whenever a wagon was starting on Ranger and

never

placed a vote on Ranger. This isn't a scum win; it's a town loss.

Thread unlocked.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Congrats to the scum team yadda yadda yadda.

Most of the time, I have good things to say about how both teams played. Unfortunately, this game was an utter embarrassment for both sides.

The mafia won, not because they played well - in fact, they played horrifically - they won because the town

played even worse

. The entire scum team was clearly visible and obvious by mid-D2. I pointed out every, single thing that was wrong with what they were doing, and I was ignored.

Even after my death, I was ignored.

You could have lynched Ranger. But no...

I named each and every single one of the scum team from the jump. I made and posted clear cases to show why I thought so. I continually showed how what they were doing was scummy. There were so may

rookie mistakes

- dual chainsaw defending, opportunistic voting patterns, fake-claiming masons... and the town fucking fell for it.

There was ZERO critical thinking. I had hoped that my flip would help. I had hoped that people would wake up and go.. hey she was town, who was pushing her? FUCKING. NOPE.

I am fucking ASHAMED to have been part of this game, part of this town, to the point of blacklisting half of you.

Marge, that vote of yours D3, followed by a flash wagon, and then NOT UNVOTING WHEN IT HAPPENED, was

fucking abhorrent

and you should feel fucking terrible for doing it.

Kop, I just... I am literally without words as to how fucking... stupid... you have been. No lynch in LYLO? Hammer without even thinking about what's going on? PROTECTING THE FUCKING ONE PERSON I TOLD YOU WAS SCUM BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT? On FF you might be able to get away with #YOLO actions and votes. Not here. On ms.net we like to think about things and what they mean before doing something.

Unless of course you're part of this town. This incredibly dense, thoughtless town.

Titus, no one fucking voted you out of fear. No one EVER votes you out of fear. You know who typically dies a lot on D1? VIs. VIs get lynched on D1. Strong players get nightkilled N1. Getting lynched D1 isn't a badge of honor, it's a fucking embarrassment. You really need to check yourself. You did not get Ranger or Persivul, and you handed the PRs to the scumteam on a silver fucking platter. And even in death, after the mod EXPLAINED TO YOU EXACTLY WHY THAT'S A BAD THING, you stood by your faulty logic insisting that you are right. You are totally incapable of introspection, and it's one of the major reasons I despise playing games with you. You are never able to admit that you might be wrong.

That's it. That's all I have to say. I don't have any desire to carry on a discussion with fucking any of you.

What a fucking shitshow of a game. You should all be deeply humiliated.