Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Flubbernugget]

Titus what the fuck are you doing

[Flubbernugget]

Titus even if your play is optimal its going to take some serious time for a proposal to get through to anyone. Is this really a good way to start off a blitz game?

[Flubbernugget]

I think titus is town too but sadly suggesting a d1 massclaim on day 1 means we can't get good reads on anyone else because both town and scum are going to just yell "titus you're freaking insane"

[Flubbernugget]

I feel sad now knowing the set up had more possiblities and getting a vt role

Actually

VOTE: marge

opposes massclaim

claims role

[Flubbernugget]

@FB, Do you seriously think I have never caught scum D1. I did once. They just were not lynched.

Once out of how many games?

[Flubbernugget]

No and you're not voting for her so you're next on my scum list

[Flubbernugget]

Also one flaw is the set up may have an sk

Not a flaw. An additional kpn makes it harder on scum to fake claim.

Looks like scum will know there is an sk and just relay on them for kills

Marge this is you opposing the plan twice after your claim

Unless you really think this is what scum is going to do

[Flubbernugget]

So uhhh Titus do you know how the dice rolled to know we have preotectives or something

[Flubbernugget]

Titus I love playing with you but sometimes you drive me up a fucking wall

[Flubbernugget]

Okay I'm home from work so I should be better able to talk about Marge

So I'm not a big fan of cherrypicking posts for reads but I'm making an exception here

Look at 44 and 45

When town fucks up a claim they show it. Marge had no reaction between claiming and then realizing that probably isn't a good idea. Like some sort of an "oh fuck" feeling to their post. Now compare that to the massive amounts of ate spilled when she got suspected. It doesn't line up with how a genuine game-solver should be thinking

[Flubbernugget]

Blocky says the only other two players with votes at the time are scum. I'd love to know why he thought so.

Not sure if I missed something or not, but where did he say this? In your Mafia QT?

Oh my fuck if marge flips scum the whole team may have just been called

[Flubbernugget]

That was l1 bro

pedit i was following

[Flubbernugget]

I would like to see some sort of response from blocky before a hammer

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Titus Titus has gotten awfully scummy.

I do think marge is scum too.

BlockyMan: Titus, Vedith, Marge, Ythan, Ranger (5)
Titus: OceanWind, EspeciallyTheLies, BlockyMan (3)
Marge: Flubbernugget, Firebringer (2)

So Ythan's statement was accurate.

Damn. I think I see what ythan meant now

Can we all sit and appreciate how epic that would have been if that was a real slip

[Flubbernugget]

Blocky why are you not voting the only player you have substantiated an actual scum read on (Ranger)???

[Flubbernugget]

um what why

[Flubbernugget]

I would like someone else to vote Ranger before I vote him.

How does this make any fucking sense

[Flubbernugget]

I reflect Craig's sentiments.

Your vote is bad

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Marge

Part of me says yay Marge wagon and part of me says votes like these are going to make it form like the blocky wagon you're complaining about

[Flubbernugget]

@kraeg can we get some reads or something then

[Flubbernugget]

I won't complain about a naked vote for the sake of it being a naked vote but the naked votes in this game are pretty awful tbh

[Flubbernugget]

Why is when ranger doing it scummy?

It struck me as suspicious because it happened so fast:
156 - Says flubber and titus are towny
157 - Adds vedith
159 - Adds ythan

That sequence of posts struck me as odd. Not so odd to call it out right away, but when someone else noticed it too, it was worth supporting.

Throwing vedith and Ythan in a town pile right now is pretty ew

[Flubbernugget]

I'm making a post so I'll know where I'm caught up to. Don't care about anything any of you are saying rn.

What do you care about?

Let's talk about something that interests you

[Flubbernugget]

Does anybody not find it strange that Blocky has been at L-1 for a while now, and nobody has posted intent or even hammered him. Does this spell an indication that scum are on his wagon?

That and lurkers

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not really interested in commenting on Titus' gung ho mass claim thing. I'd like to say she's town for it. I think I like Vedith and flubber too. Everyone else is kinda bleh.

I'm a VT.

But it's not a massclaim if everyone is willing to claim

Surely you would want to convince people like me and runner to claim??

[Flubbernugget]

@Titus:

1. I liked your old (a few months ago) avatar better

2. Why do you want a massclaim this early? As the set-up is only SEMI-open, is it really going to do a lot of good?

I'm not saying it's suspicious that you're pushing for it at this point...but how would it benefit us?

Also this limpdick post is what set me on the case in the first place. So hedgey. So fenceshitty. So scummy.

Ummm this is the kinda thing I would expect town to fencesit on

[Flubbernugget]

But it's not a massclaim if everyone is willing to claim

????????????????????

**isn't willing to claim

[Flubbernugget]

I really have no idea how people are sheeping a massclaim idea without a good study of the setup

[Flubbernugget]

I was kinda hoping Titus would chime in on that when I asked someone to go over theory with me.

The fact that nobody did contributes to the insanity of this massclaim

[Flubbernugget]

I've been gone for like 4 hours and the thread doubled what the fuck

[Flubbernugget]

I really have no idea how people are sheeping a massclaim idea without a good study of the setup

I have played it many times hydra and solo. Scum claiming before SK reveal or elimination hurts them.

What does this have to do with everyone else's familiarity?

[Flubbernugget]

Those of you who aren't voting Persivul need to explain to me why not in a way that doesn't involve "Blocky is better" because he's not. He's a meh lynch. His ISO isn't fantastic but it isn't super scummy either, like Persivul's is. I've pointed out several things wrong here. He hedged on Titus, which I could see as her way of gaining reactions, especially given her call for a wagon on herself off the jump. And understand that it wasn't the idea of mass claim that he hedged on - it was hedging on what he thought it meant about her alignment. "I'm not saying you are or aren't scummy for this... blah blah blah". It's literally disgusting.

Second, he claims that Marge is a better lynch but has literally done nothing at all to further or develop that read, or any other read whatsoever.

And when asked about his read on Blocky, his best answer is "the wagon is bad because votes and my read has dropped." Ok.. what?

When pushed he comes up with some ridiculous non-sequiter to run after in an effort to derail the questioning of him and shift the focus. It is literally nonsense to ask a player why he should vote someone the other person isn't scumreading or pushing.

Come on.

p-edit: posts that I will read.

I've already said that waffling on Titus d1 isn't a scum tell

And I'm not keen on sheeping someone that's questioning the massclaim while participating in it

[Flubbernugget]

Totally willing to theory chime.

I just wanted someone to go over the setup with me as I've never played it and the wiki entry is overwhelming.

Spoiler: Massive Theory

Well this will help me explain why massclaim is good so win win.

At the start of the game, the mod rolls 7 percentage dies. These correspond to the various PRs in the game and VTs.

1-50 = T (Townie)
51-65 = C (Cop)
66-75 = D (Doctor)
76-85 = V (Vigilante)
86-95 = M (Mason)
96-100 = B (Blocker)

The number of Ts directly influences how many scum are in the game. There is only one group scum and 50/50 odds of a serial killer.

Each role necessitates how many letters are in the setup. For instance, masons require at least 2 Ms. A full cop requires two Cs. We can eliminate any setup with one or thee Ms as the mod did not confirm an innocent child at the start of the day.

By structuring a mass claim day 1, we can either confirm all the PRs as town or force scum into some hard kill situations, particularly if we don't know about an SK. Neither do scum.

First PR or VT.
If we get a too many letters scenario (eight PRs), we know there must be scum in the PRs pool).
Then we go to number of letters. Full cops would claim dual letters, same with a one shot doctor (as a one shot doctor cannot exist without a full doctor).
Then, we claim the actual letters. Anyone dual letter claiming without a letter underneath is autoscum.

We also know the setup within a handful of possibilities, dependent on actual claims.

Okay first off why was this not the first post you made about massclaim

Second off I'm not lynching through the pr pool to get one fakeclaiming scum

[Flubbernugget]

Throwing vedith and Ythan in a town pile right now is pretty ew

Read Vedith's posts and tell me they're scum.
They're not.
Ythan's not in the townbloc because he could be scum, but I've seen some very strong town thinking behind his posts, in particular, the thoughts he's had on players like, say, BlockyMan.

Read Vedith's posts and tell me they're town

They're not

I'm accepting of your read on Ythan tho

[Flubbernugget]

Stop posting fuckers lemme catch up

[Flubbernugget]

Marge have you done anything useful yet

[Flubbernugget]

This game needs more bullets.

If you're against massclaim, why did you sign up Ythan. It happens in almost every run of this setup. It's like hating masons but playing Friends and Enemies.

Yeah um is that the first thing people do in every game because if it was it wouldn't fit ms setup meta

[Flubbernugget]

You didn't specify the composition of the dicks, Ythan. I think you need to do that.

Hairy

[Flubbernugget]

Ding ding ding.

Yes but complying would end it here and now, rather than getting all argumentative with the damn queen of inane arguments.

But is it worth the fact that town just fucking massclaimed because I don't think it is

[Flubbernugget]

You mean his stalling, not providing substantive comments, or the amount of resistance isn't enough?

So two noob tells and wagon logic from two week game phaswa

Maybe you are scum

[Flubbernugget]

If you're on the blocky wagon, what has he done to get scum points that Marge hasn't?

[Flubbernugget]

You mean his stalling, not providing substantive comments, or the amount of resistance isn't enough?

So two noob tells and wagon logic from two week game phaswa

Maybe you are scum

Phaswa?

Noob isn't alignment indicative. If I scumread suboptimal, no one would have a townread.

i meant phases

[Flubbernugget]

Scum whiteknighting detected. Persivul didn't "hold his own" in his argument with EspeciallyTheLies. He floundered around and was unable to come up with solid explanations for his stance on the Blocky wagon. Only problem is, I'm not sure if he's scum or just a bad player horrible at articulating his thoughts. Your posts on the other hand look like you are trying to defend Persivul in part for towncred and in part to buddy him as he seems more susceptible than EspeciallyTheLies.

UNVOTE: Titus
VOTE: Ranger

Shouldn't you be voting Persivul here

[Flubbernugget]

Like really I'm reading this as "I'm sheeping etl's scum read and then voting somewhere else"

Wk on day one doesn't cut it

[Flubbernugget]

Please explain how I have been "tearing down" and "promoting focus" on Persivul reads? I don't like Persivul's arguments against EspeciallyTheLies but he seems more like a lost newbie than scum. The clearest scum for me is Ranger who's characterization of Persivul looked like she was sucking up to him to gain his favor because I can't honestly see a townie come to the conclusion that she did.

Who sucks up to newbies d1 in a game that could have a sk and a vig

[Flubbernugget]

I'll be really sad if Marge really is a farside alt

[Flubbernugget]

So re 564 your white Knight tell can go fuck itself. You show things in Persivul's play that make it look like he could be scum but then go "but Ranger is the REAL scum because he doesn't see stuff the same way I do"

Like if there was a flip on persuival I would almost get it but he's still alive so really what are you doing

Second time I've been told I don't know how to read because I disagree with something what a fun time this game is

[Flubbernugget]

I have a feeling if your argument doesn't surmount to "prohawk can't scumhunt without reading the threaf" you will be scum in the eyes of ocean wind

I will also be scum for not giving him my reads on his demand and instead will be at my earliest convenience

[Flubbernugget]

So re 564 your white Knight tell can go fuck itself. You show things in Persivul's play that make it look like he could be scum but then go "but Ranger is the REAL scum because he doesn't see stuff the same way I do"

Like if there was a flip on persuival I would almost get it but he's still alive so really what are you doing

Second time I've been told I don't know how to read because I disagree with something what a fun time this game is

I'll re-explain so it's crystal clear. I don't see the attributes I used to describe Persivul as scum-motivated. More specifically, I think floundering around and flailing is indicative more of a newbie than of scum. I was null on Persivul at that point. His subsequent posts gave me a townread.

Woah woah woah so now someone was white knighting a town read of yours that has a very aggressive player trying to wagon them?

Now your case makes even less sense

[Flubbernugget]

Maybe my reading comprehension is biased by faith in nonexistent brain cells

[Flubbernugget]

Flubber, why are you changing the goalposts rather than defend your position?

You first thought I was scumreading Persivul and that I was sheeping EspeciallyTheLies's read and you couldn't understand why I'm voting Ranger over Persivul.

I clarify that I don't think Persivul is scum and I think Ranger was whiteknighting Persivul.

You now change your argument to "I don't buy someone is white-knighting a town-read of yours."

At this point, I'd have expected town to go "oh, okay, I misinterpreted your post." But you are concocting new arguments as you go along.

How does misreading something equate to changing goalposts?

The proper interpretation of your posting is scummier than the improper interpretation

[Flubbernugget]

Ranger is town fwiw

[Flubbernugget]

It has nothing to do with elitist shit. It has to do with

basic concepts of scumhunting and what is and isn't scummy

.

I see people throwing around

so much bullshit I seriously have no idea who is actually scum or just an idiot who has no idea how to catch scum

.

I literally do not give a flying fuck, Titus. I was a replacement to that game and didn't read it. You're going to compare it to a game I started in? Very different scene and you know it. You also know exactly what level of skill I'm at, so I don't really need to be elitist.

Just want to point out what I bolded,

1)

You should know the meta changes, that one persons tells are different from another. That what scum do changes and that town must change with them and adopt those principles to adjust.

We can all go by textbook ways of playing, but guess what? It WONT WORK!
Why? Cause scum will avoid textbook tells and actions.

Their is no universal way of finding scum.
You should respect each persons way of trying to find it, whether you agree or disagree.

You clearly don't respect anyones other methods and think yours is superior and the only true way.
You are a elitist.

2)
Then you should try adjusting and figuring out a new method because if your previous guide to finding scum is invalid, it might be outdated or not apply and you need to find a new way to do it.

Their is no one way to play mafia, and I wish people stop pretending their was.

Yay I was tired of fence sitting a read on you

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: ocean

He's grasping for scum reads

[Flubbernugget]

Hahaha. TOLD you guys. The scumteam really wants me gone.

Also, when Flubber returns, he's going to ignore my questions and vote me as well. Just watch.

736 and 737

[Flubbernugget]

With regards to the Ocean wagon, I'm not entirely convinced. I think Titus is somehow tunneling people one by one, and I'm more inclined not to follow it just like how I didn't jump on the Blocky wagon which she started. And I think Ocean have refuted some of the accusations against him.

His refutes are pretty bad tho

[Flubbernugget]

You could take BP if you thought you could find a cop with a massclaim, which you pushed for hard.

You're either vig or SK. Blatantly pointing out a cop crumb was anti-town. So you're stupid or you're SK, and we all know you're not stupid. That just leaves SK.

Blatant false dichotomy ew

[Flubbernugget]

wait are we in RQS 22 hours before deadline?

holy shit this thread

[Flubbernugget]

Do I have to actually try and catch up in these 10 pages I missed or should I just hope the wagon I'm on is the one that goes through

[Flubbernugget]

Fucking yikes how do you claim vig un cc'd and still get wagoned that fucking hard

I'm assuming no cc because she's not dead yet

[Flubbernugget]

ythan I'd be more ashamed of being on your wagon tho

[Flubbernugget]

Wait uhhh if this is a 1-shot vig claim gone sk why aren't we just eating the one vig/sk kill whatever and forcing scum to crosskill

[Flubbernugget]

Who said the drugs were for sex?

Supposedly heroin makes you last forever

[Flubbernugget]

I would rather you explained why I'm retarded before you gave me the rainbow love

[Flubbernugget]

I'm kinda pissed I have a test tomorrow and haven't started to study and now have to be around for deadline

boooo

[Flubbernugget]

Why am I more interested in the trite shitposting than the actual game posting fucking hell no wonder i always make it to lylo

[Flubbernugget]

Titus that's fucking stupid

Are you going to tell the scum they all have a tiny penis if they nk you or something

[Flubbernugget]

Outing a cop is fucking stupid but not scum

I want to know why I'm retarded for assuming scum won't kill a player that can seriously fuck them in lylo

[Flubbernugget]

okay I'm retarded now

You can be the hero of this thread and fix it

All the glory my friend

All the glory

[Flubbernugget]

Titus looks like a scum driven cw to me. My vote goes on her right before I go to bed out of belligerent protest. Prohawk's going off the wagon could just be to make it more likely the titus wagon goes through. But this is all preflips so meh.

Like really if you've played with titus before going "lynch obvscum" doesn't get you far read-wise

[Flubbernugget]

I'm not taking her being a shit player as an excuse.

The case on her right now is about outing a cop crumb right?

Because that's honestly playing against wincon as either alignment

@Titus I don't trust you to not do something stupid and you're not town to me you're null

[Flubbernugget]

There should be a theorem that the closer a time approaches deadline, the more "obvscum" the leading wagon becomes

[Flubbernugget]

play with titus more or don't post

I've told you my vote's going on titus do you not believe me or is this just your thing

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: Titus

If you want a hammer being a prick won't get it

Good night good luck

[Flubbernugget]

I don't think Titus is going to be hammered

A sk locking themselves into one nk is fucking stupid but Titus killing anyone other than the ocean is a scum claim

[Flubbernugget]

Ocean etl and Marge for scum

Ythan could be scum if there's four but one nk + vig claim leads me to belive he's just got his head up his ass

VOTE: ocean

And yes the Titus wagon was to the brim with scum but I'm more confident in my reads for the sake of them being my reads to really look into that

[Flubbernugget]

I am intrigued at the argument of Titus SK but I don't really want to lynch her oddly enough.

VOTE: kop

Can we lynch this instead?

Holy shit I forgot about this

ProHawk makes for better scum than ythan

This was the unvote on ocean that guaranteed Titus's lynch

So we can lynch ocean today and if that flips scum we have his scum buddy

[Flubbernugget]

Prohawk you're scum when we play more often than not

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: etl

Have you posted anywhere other than that reads list that your read on me is wavering?

[Flubbernugget]

I don't understand why the mentality is "lynch me" and not "replace out"

[Flubbernugget]

Ocean

etl

and Marge for scum

If this is a thing that has traction, I'd rather it go through today rather than later on. I don't have the time or energy to argue with people who have already convinced themselves without bothering to ask me anything or try to figure me out. I'm too busy with school and work.

So hop to it. There's already one vote there, Flubber. Add yours.

A replacement would be more likely to have the time/energy to defend themselves

Or at least the time/energy to continue to scumhunt past a reads list

I don't see this as optimal town play and the sarcastic undertones in the way you challenge people to wagon you seems to have an ulterior motive. Like when a parent says "do whatever the hell you want" and then throws something at you for doing it

[Flubbernugget]

Didn't you take pride as never getting mislynched as town in chosen? Did that go away or am I misremembering something

[Flubbernugget]

I have a nagging suspicion that this is a gambit to keep suspicion off ocean but there's no way to tell without and ocean flip and hey would you look at that our fucking g vig is dead

[Flubbernugget]

I have a nagging suspicion that this is a gambit to keep suspicion off ocean but there's no way to tell without and ocean flip and hey would you look at that our fucking g vig is dead

I don't understand your logic here. How is me saying "If you are afraid that I'm scum, lynch me now instead of in LYLO" a gambit involving Ocean?

A wagon was building on ocean. If ocean has a scum pr and you don't it's a reasonable thing to go "LYNCH ME LYNCH ME" instead of breaking the wagon down (which you kinda did anyway)

The problem is there's no way to tell without an ocean flip

So that post is more frustration than useful scumhunting

[Flubbernugget]

Hm

VOTE: ocean

This needs to be sorted first

[Flubbernugget]

I'm only going to respond to ocean in haiku form now

[Flubbernugget]

I do not sniff farts
I only let them go free
Your mother loves it

[Flubbernugget]

Ocean needs a drink
Wait, I think I meant a joint
Violent drunks are bad

[Flubbernugget]

Prohawk of the three games I've played with you, you were scum in two

[Flubbernugget]

Pro, we've played three games
In two of them you were scum
Refrigerator

[Flubbernugget]

It's five syllables
Then you have to use seven
Then you use five more

[Flubbernugget]

I am very sad
That rob13's new vote count
Is not a haiku

[Flubbernugget]

Or we could all vote
For our favorite ocean wind
And fucking lynch him

[Flubbernugget]

*sigh*

I'll get the ocean case out tomorrow

[Flubbernugget]

So this thread is dead

I'm still going to post about why everyone should wagon ocean

I will keep it small and to the point

And he will yell again

But if you ignore that the thread won't die again

Or you could just lynch him

[Flubbernugget]

We start with 497

The case on Ranger is a straw grasp. And it's hidden within a bunch of other questions so you can't really see it. It starts with challenging runner's scum reads, saying he has to be town reading everyone he isn't scum reading (duh??). This is poe. Nothing to be suspicious of

Lets get to the meat of the case.

How does one white knight someone when you don't know their alignment? I was never fond of etl's push against persuvial, and although persuival's posting wasn't as elegant as etl's, his points made sense to me. The only towncred Ranger got from defending persuvial is the transparency of their read, and ocean blew the defence way out proportion.

Look at 617 we see that Ocean thinks persuvial could be town, and we saw etl's aggressive push against persuvial. Again, not only is the white knighting thing blown way out of proportion, it is done so under the fact that in ocean's eye's a potential mislynch was within reach.

622 I point this out as an addition to my case and get told I'm moving the goal posts.

His push against titus saying prohawk wasn't scumhunting was blah now that I'm looking at it again

All it takes is a naked vote for the ate to kick in. Town ate tends to be at everyone. This ate is directed at an individual player

Also let's not forget that titus was a counterwagon to a rising wagon on ocean

[Flubbernugget]

Seeing ythan's posting in the ns thread it always kinda came off as the way he posted

also he didn't really get obnoxious till no lynch started to float over the town

but yes he is very opaque and that is bad

[Flubbernugget]

Hey guys are you bored of the game or do you just post less on weekends

That's something that we should probably talk to zor about postgame

[Flubbernugget]

Hey guys are you bored of the game or do you just post less on weekends

That's something that we should probably talk to zor about postgame

I had to pick up my sister at the airport and run her around yesterday. Today I'm going to the Steelers-Raiders game and that will eat up most of the day. But IMO the game's moving reasonably well.

Your 1363 on ocean was underwhelming, and his 1376 was a good response. Who else could you you vote today?

Marge and Ythan

Would lynch etl for the sake of my sanity but that's still anti town since it's not actually showing a read on her

I could respond point to point at Ocean or I could restate his read on Ranger sucks and his reaction to it sucked. I begrudgingly give town points to him for the trajectory of the conversation "feeling" like how a town v town evolves but not being able to quantify the feeling keeps him in my scum pile for now

The way the Titus wagon sprung up after his is still really bad. There's enough players here that know Titus does crazy shit to have let that gone through

[Flubbernugget]

I like Marge's defense of fire but Holy shit her d1 play still really bugs the shit out of me

[Flubbernugget]

Pro I'm not sure what conclusion you're trying to derive from your quotes

[Flubbernugget]

Ocean but not Persivul

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: ocean

My lack of discipline with my school work makes me sad I will try to be optimistic

Now we dont have ythan in lylo

[Flubbernugget]

ocean and marge are still scum

[Flubbernugget]

Just checked Kraeg's posts from D2 and unfortunately it doesn't look like he used it N1.

Why do you think scum killed kraeg?

I have yet to look through the iso but no crumbs+cop gets nk'd = ???

[Flubbernugget]

i claim vt

pro needs to confirm his claim

[Flubbernugget]

If scum pulls the Mason gambit then town seriously fucked up. I don't think it's worth analysis if the fuck up is that bad

Titus do you not know what the fuck a crumb is

[Flubbernugget]

My play was optimal here. Just because you disagree doesn't make it suboptimal.

Flubber, I suck with crumbs. Still crumbs aren't needed here.

Maybe you should work on that then

Crumbs do everything you think massclaim would have done

[Flubbernugget]

Twelve hours to go. Ranger, your lone vote on ETL isn't doing any good. Can you move it to another wagon?

This is 100% coaching. Town doesn't talk this way to someone they don't think is playing like town. You're telling him to move his vote onto the wagon here.

I'm not pulling the post number but persuival had reached out to me in a similar way this game

[Flubbernugget]

Although I think actually getting mad over a loss is bad getting mad because of shit play makes sense

Sometimes you have to tell someone to go fuck themselves before they get it