Mini 476: Pariah's GBH Mafia - Game Over!

[Zindaras]

Zindaras will be with you shortly.

[al_kohaulec]

Nosy_G replaces death_omen

[Nosy_G]

Nosy_G replaces death_omen

woop

[Nosy_G]

I'm surprised no one's caught this.

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Zombie (Ghost 3) left

rotten bits of flesh

on the ground surrounding its kills, according to the Mod Notes.

I stole a bone covered in

stinking rancid flesh

from him.

Now, I myself would consider the transition from "rotten" to "stinking rancid" to be creative license on the part of Alkohaulec. I think it's interesting that he himself mentioned this, yet still seems suspicious of PK because of BT's investigation.

FoS: Zinders

[BillyTwilight]

I don't understand your point, Nosy_G....

Let's reiterate. There is a chance that FoSing is bad in this game. Please refrain from doing it. I know, I know, I did it to, but we need to avoid it if we can. That's 4 so far this game, and if there is a role that makes use of it we might be getting near a nice prime number that a mod just might have decided to use to make someone's role go berserk.

kthnx

[BillyTwilight]

Also, waiting for more from MoD, preferably something that makes me think you've actually read the thread this time.

[Nosy_G]

I don't understand your point, Nosy_G....

Let's reiterate. There is a chance that FoSing is bad in this game. Please refrain from doing it. I know, I know, I did it to, but we need to avoid it if we can. That's 4 so far this game, and if there is a role that makes use of it we might be getting near a nice prime number that a mod just might have decided to use to make someone's role go berserk.

kthnx

Ok I'll elaborate. 1) Zindaras accuses PK for having a bone with "stinking rancid flesh" on it, and proceeds to attack him for something which he regards as suspicious. 2) Zindaras then later quotes a town-aligned role from Ghost 3 that mentions "rotten bits of flesh", which is similar to what you claim to have found from PK. Despite this, Zindaras proceeds in attacking PK. It seems hypocritical, given that evidence is pointing towards most roles likely

not

having their alignments changed.

As for the FoS thing, yea, that was my bad. I forgot.

[Nosy_G]

Shoot, I hit the wrong button. I think since FoS'ing is dangerous, I'm going to upgrade to a

Official Vote: Zindaras

.

[HurriKaty]

. What would be best would be to give HK a bit more time to verify her results and see if she is given an obvious untruth. Obviously, that may or may not occur if it's not, however it's possible to see if it's unreliable if we are willing to wait a bit, which, at this point in the game, I don't see as unreasonable.

Yeah, but for all we know, there's a chance that if my results are decided by some sort of magic eight ball, with the randomness of it, we'll never know if I'm actually sane or insane. I could end up with the right results for days in a row.

[al_kohaulec]

Vote Count:

BillyTwilight - 2- Whome?, MoD
Zindaras - 2 - Pariah, Nosy_G

MoD - 1 - Zindaras

And the idle: Sacred, Just_a_Cleric, UltimaAvalon, HurriKaty, BillyTwilight

Deadline: Sep. 16th, 8 PM PST

[al_kohaulec]

The deadline is in 4 days, roughly.

[al_kohaulec]

KaleiÐoscøpe replaces MoD

[BillyTwilight]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. We

need

to hear from Zindy NOW. Were going into a deadline with serious problems and not a lot of help from players here.

Currently, my personal choices for lynching today are WhoMe? and Pariah. WhoMe? for the zombie thing, which could cause us real problems down the line, and Pariah in part because I find his play to be awkward and in part to help confirm me. I've already pointed out how much he posts in defense of himself, which is reasonable, I feel, although it does seem a little overdone. But also because he has done almost nothing to help us look for scum, other than attack Zindy as Zindy attacked him. Plus my investigation of him, though far from being full proof, is not a check in the townie column for him. The other benefit would be to confirm my burglar claim and to assure everyone that Pariah and I aren't scum together. I realize that Pariah might be waiting to continue his diatribe with Zindy, but I need his opinion about the rest of the game, and in detail, now. Especially since he explicitly asked for a deadline and has done little to look for scum since he he asked and try to help get a successful lynch when we are against a wall.

I'd rather lynch WhoMe?; his play has been a little off kilter and his claimed role does nothing to help the town; the role was also originally scum, unless I misunderstood. I still don't think that alko would effectively give us scum coming out of a night phase, but I am unsure.

None of this is set in stone, but right about now I am having a hard time developing a plan of attack for the remainder of this day, and in lieu of people posting this is the best I can come up with.

POST PLEASE.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

HAIHAI

Will read everything ASAP.

[Sacred]

we're a long way from lynch yet. A vote is just a vote. It's not like I hammered the guy, but my thinking was, if HK's info is correct then we have found a lie. I figure that's worth a vote

Ok, so what do you hope to achieve with your vote? What does it mean?

Do you think Billy is lying? If so, how do you explain his findings coupled with his role claim?
Do you think Katy is lying? If so, what do you think happens to her if she lied about Billy and he turns up town?

Considering the possible explanations for the Billy-Katy situation, it looks like you didn't think too much before voting. Or planned to but then changed your mind and voted anyway. If so, why did you change your mind?

[WhoMe?]

we're going to lynch someone. We want to hit scum, or failing that, get a lynch that provides info. We have Billy who has claimed info on Pariah who has in turn been denounced by HK. A Billy lynch therefore gives us info on both Pariah and HK, and if HK is right bags us a scum as well.

[Pariah]

That's a rather odd judgment call on your part, that I've done nothing to find scum other than attack Zindaras "for attacking me." First of all that implies OMGUS, which it clearly is not, as my arguments are substantially filled with logic, not that "I am townie, you voted for me, thus, you are scum." So you discount that based upon...? The fact it makes your opinion look better?

You're placing the burden of proof upon myself to point out that I have done nothing to help find scum. I have not aggressively posted on someone else's scumminess, however you would be quite the liar to say that I have not posted things to help us catch scum. My play is awkward to you possibly because it is very jarring, very in your face. Considering you yourself have admitted you are lost in meta terms in this game, I am sure the other players in the game will testify that I play like

that regardless of alignment, and it is not an indicator of alignment.

Why is it helpful to lynch me to confirm you? Didn't I already agree with your results? Lynching me won't prove anything further. It doesn't show that HK's lying or that there is a cop in the mafia who check role names. And it doesn't confirm alignment, only your role. This is suspicious you use the term "confirm" you when you are a miller. I dislike the implications. Especially when HK may be a

BAAAALLLER.

Rather poor logic Mr. BT on the last bit there.

And, if you'd look, I did post

repeatedly

that I was on a grind for time. I spent about all of my free time studying for tests or school work. This is a brief post that does not cover all the topics I want but I am posting to simply contribute.

Even with my constricted time, I don't regret the deadline. It was necessary to get the game going.

Confirm Vote: Zindaras

For lurking. Excessively. And the bit Nosy posted. And all the crap I posted before. And I dislike the most recent post from our burglar friend.

[Zindaras]

I know when I'm wrong, and this is one where I am wrong. My attack on Pariah was fundamentally weak.

Ah, but this has key differences.

In all those old-fashioned arguments, who was the firestarter? Me. It was almost always over a bit of disagreement on logic, not investigation results. (Similar, but not the same.)

This is highly different because Zindaras is kicking sand in

my

face and is trying very heavily to make me look bad, with several statements like "don't see how this role isn't someone evil," etc. A reverse of the normal situation. Why is that scummy? Because of Zindaras's reasoning on it and the basis for it. It's not my behavior, I haven't seen a post documenting on how I've been having pro scum. It's the result from Billy alone. The result from Billy, as I have documented, is not an alignment reveal of scum. His comments like "we don't know this is a bastard game" are troublesome. He tries stretching things beyond belief.

That's unusual and definitely not your typical Zindaras/PK argument.

Truth be told, I don't pretend to know within my hearts of hearts that Zindaras must be scum thrown over a flag pole and thusly beaten to death, but I dislike his play here and I don't see a better candidate at the moment, with HK not being clear and I'm of the mind CPE is more of a replacement/mod issue.

Let me posit the following things:

-In all previous games, if you were town, you attacked me.
-In all previous games, if you were scum, you didn't attack me.
-In all previous games, if I were scum, I avoided you like hell.

In Psychiatric Hospital, Blizzard and Mafia in the '20's, you avoided me. In Psychiatric Hospital, I avoided you. I'm discounting MtG 8 for this because we were buddies, and MtG 9 because I wanted to be lynched.

Unless I am forgetting games, that is a correct representation of the facts. This gut thing is one of the reasons I suspect you.

Cleric claim is reasonable, but also a possible scumclaim, as it isn't a very confirmable claim and it's easy to blame bastardness.

I think WhoMe's eager jump on Billy is also bad. MoD's 237 isn't very impressive.

I'm surprised no one's caught this.

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Zombie (Ghost 3) left

rotten bits of flesh

on the ground surrounding its kills, according to the Mod Notes.

I stole a bone covered in

stinking rancid flesh

from him.

Now, I myself would consider the transition from "rotten" to "stinking rancid" to be creative license on the part of Alkohaulec. I think it's interesting that he himself mentioned this, yet still seems suspicious of PK because of BT's investigation.

FoS: Zinders

There's not a whole lot of difference between rotten and stinking rancid.

Ok I'll elaborate. 1) Zindaras accuses PK for having a bone with "stinking rancid flesh" on it, and proceeds to attack him for something which he regards as suspicious. 2) Zindaras then later quotes a town-aligned role from Ghost 3 that mentions "rotten bits of flesh", which is similar to what you claim to have found from PK. Despite this, Zindaras proceeds in attacking PK. It seems hypocritical, given that evidence is pointing towards most roles likely

not

having their alignments changed.

As for the FoS thing, yea, that was my bad. I forgot.

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Zombie was an

SK

, not a Townie. The fact that Pariah didn't point this out is another tell against him.

we're going to lynch someone. We want to hit scum, or failing that, get a lynch that provides info. We have Billy who has claimed info on Pariah who has in turn been denounced by HK. A Billy lynch therefore gives us info on both Pariah and HK, and if HK is right bags us a scum as well.

We don't lynch for information, we lynch for scum.

Unvote, Vote: WhoMe?

Was noncommittal on the Billy claim, counterwagoned Death_omen over bad reasoning, cast doubt on Billy while defending him. I don't think his night choice makes sense, since he says he was suspicious of people staying on the Aceiks lynch after he claimed, but that's not enough to explain why he specifically targeted me. WhoMe seems to put role on par with alignment (note that Pariah didn't go after him for this). Plays WIFOM-games with his targeting. Subtly suggests we go for Pariah, Katy or Billy. Votes Katy to get her info, then switches and votes Billy. Again, if anyone's assuming too much here, it's WhoMe. Suggests an information lynch.

[Nosy_G]

I'm going to embarrassingly admit that I did not realize that.

Unvote

[BillyTwilight]

That's a rather odd judgment call on your part, that I've done nothing to find scum other than attack Zindaras "for attacking me." First of all that implies OMGUS, which it clearly is not, as my arguments are substantially filled with logic, not that "I am townie, you voted for me, thus, you are scum." So you discount that based upon...? The fact it makes your opinion look better?

Not "for attacking you"; "while attacking you". You noticed I used "as" and not "for" in the quote. If I thought it was really OMGUSY I would have said so. Don't obfuscate my point with blather, you know what I am getting at.

You're placing the burden of proof upon myself to point out that I have done nothing to help find scum. I have not aggressively posted on someone else's scumminess, however you would be quite the liar to say that I have not posted things to help us catch scum. My play is awkward to you possibly because it is very jarring, very in your face.

Um. No. It's not "jarring, or "in my face". You've commented on the role claims that have come up. You've fought with Zindy. You fought (to some extent) with me. I don't recall a single time you commented on a player's scummy-ness in Day 2 without someone asking you about it. You asked for (and got) a deadline to get into the night phase and still haven't commented on the play of anyone who hasn't specifically gamed for you.

Considering you yourself have admitted you are lost in meta terms in this game, I am sure the other players in the game will testify that I play like

that regardless of alignment, and it is not an indicator of alignment.

I don't need metagame to see a player who is doing very little to contribute to catching scum, and in addition is asking for days to be shorter while not contributing to catching scum.

Why is it helpful to lynch me to confirm you? Didn't I already agree with your results? Lynching me won't prove anything further. It doesn't show that HK's lying or that there is a cop in the mafia who check role names. And it doesn't confirm alignment, only your role. This is suspicious you use the term "confirm" you when you are a miller. I dislike the implications. Especially when HK may be a

BAAAALLLER.

??? I don't understand the last part. Are you referring to the 8-ball thing? Anyway, as far as confirming me; the only people (besides mafia) that know I am telling the truth about my role (if not necessarily my alignment) are you and me. Everyone else can't be sure that we aren't scum together. I think you have been relatively unhelpful in analyzing peoples play, but more than willing to talk about a ton of roles that likely aren't in the game anyway. My investigation on you certainly doesn't lessen suspicion of you, although I don't put a lot of faith on it and wouldn't lynch anyone based on any of my investigations solely. It's still, however, a piece of the puzzle. So, coupling the fact that lynching you would prove that we aren't mafia together for everyone not privy to our own roles with what I find to be lackluster and *slightly* scummy play from you and an on-the-surface negative investigation, this course of action seems to me to be a completely logical plan.

Rather poor logic Mr. BT on the last bit there.

And, if you'd look, I did post

repeatedly

that I was on a grind for time. I spent about all of my free time studying for tests or school work. This is a brief post that does not cover all the topics I want but I am posting to simply contribute.

Even with my constricted time, I don't regret the deadline. It was necessary to get the game going.

Confirm Vote: Zindaras

For lurking. Excessively. And the bit Nosy posted. And all the crap I posted before. And I dislike the most recent post from our burglar friend.

I understand the pressure for time. I've had it too recently. But I am not worried about how little you've posted. I simply don't find a lot of help in scumhunting in what you actually HAVE posted.

Let me reiterate. I'd rather not pursue either of the options I listed above without other reasons. What I want is some real discussion for the next day and a half so we can figure out who IS scum and not just shoot in the dark. In lieu of that kind of posting and discussion, I'd prefer a WhoMe? lynch and , barring

that

, then a Pariah lynch. Plain and simple.

[WhoMe?]

I would support a lynch of myself to stop the zombieness spreading. But understand it would be a townie lynch. Don't be kidding yourself you would hit scum.

[UltimaAvalon]

Ugh....crap I forgot about the whole zombie thing. Shouldn't priority 1 be to stop the infection now, using whatever killing methods available to us? The longer we leaving it unchecked, the less info we're going to get.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, I'm done reading the thread. Sacred and Zindaras need to die

Vote: Zindaras

[WhoMe?]

If we are not concerned about zombieness, I would be OK with a

Billy

lynch. if we ARE concerned about zombieness, then we would be best lynching either myself or

zindaras

. I know I am town, so if we are voting based on zombieness I will be going with a vote on

zindaras

.

Question is, are we concerned about a zombie plague?

[BillyTwilight]

Why would you be okay with a Billy Lynch?