I mean we have three weeks but this game is moving quick. I'm forming some pretty ugly gutreads on people and I'd like some cold hard flips to have in my heart before I get bored and start theorizing.
You're saying his initial push as in his vote on you page one? Or his switch to Bells later?
Phone posting. Low effort, big fun.
"In my heart, Johnny will always be scum" - Not_Mafia
In post 211, Taly wrote:A lot of my problems on getting accurate and straight-forward thoughts are bubbling from Ice and Wickan's overall interaction with me, and how FA walks around that.
Just ISO me to see my previous post about my overall thought process here.
What I can't seem to understand is - People are throwing associative tells all over me, while criticizing my vote and unvote off of a wagon - and then twisting my questions and answers to have a thought.
Basically... I feel like there is probably scum between:
Ice, Wickan, FA
I'm tossing around Wickan and FA, moreso Wickan as the candidates - what do you think?
My god.... It's getting late here, and I cannot think straight...
This is how I’m seeing this entire thing play out.
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Ice originally scumreads me and votes me for my vote on Wickan for being opportunistic. 69
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Wickan says that the votes on his wagon was natural. 77
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I defend and explain myself to Ice while telling him why I dislike the case.
>
Ice then expands on why my unvote looked like scum trying to hide a 'mistake' 80
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Wickan still doesn't really say anything against that other than that it was weird. (His posts before 113)
>
I explain myself further and rebuttal Ice's theory on why Wickan and I are scumbuddies because I unvoted him.
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Ice baits me that I'd have safely voted for him if I were scum - I didn't as I said that I could see him being town. 96
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Wickan is now saying that my original vote on him was opportunistic - after saying his wagon was natural - but then says I'm scum trying to buddy up with Ice. 113
…..All of this is just way too damn messy…. :facepalm:
This isn’t even involving FA’s vote where only Ice is now looking at, or FA’s questions directed toward me – thinking I accepted that my unvote was scummy?....
This is throwing me through a loop.... I need to sleep on this.
On ICE - yeah I don't really like his trajectory. He seems to be really amorphous on his reads and I don't think his arguments hold a lot of water. I'm slightly torn on him as a sort-of old-school player archetype, something between CrashTestDummy and Justin Playfair who were both oldschool who I played with before in the same game a while back.
CTD had some thinking and pushes that I didn't agree with - couldn't see the sense in - and I argued with him and thought he was scum.
Justin had a more reasonable manner and took my thoughts very seriously and agreed with a lot of what I was saying (validating misreads I had at the time... particularly on CTD which is no surprise).
We ended up winning that game somehow, I can't remember exactly (I probably got nightkilled, I usually do). The moral of the story is I think ICE fits somewhere in between if I overlay the 'spectrum of old-school players' mental template I have. He could be town but I really don't like his push on you, his switchback on me, his reasoning for pushing in general, if that makes sense. He really does seem to have an agenda.
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Wickan. The *interest* in the wagon built too quickly if that makes sense.
Just on a heuristic analysis (I read his iso last night before flaking) - I don't think he had much scum-motivation to push of me unless my calmish response to his initial "big push" was enough to turn him around (or the subsequent discussion with FA). Sure as scum you might want to come in with a big initial push but then why let it peter off? I can't even remember who he voted instead of me but it's not like I was attacking him for scumreading me. His subsequent interactions haven't involved backing down (I'll state here with the exception of the dropped vote on RC in order to vote you which is why I asked him).
The other thing I saw was his refusal to bite on FA's "who would you kill with a dayvig" question. He just said "nope" which I read as town.
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FA you have my opinion on.
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As far as those three go for lynch options, sure but I'd be hard-pressed to compromise on Wickan except for something like a deadline compromise and fucked if I'm spending 3 weeks deciding on Day 1 unless we all become happy little sprites making this thread a joy to read and post in :P
I'm more interested in getting info from Simple Plan and ABR at this point to try to get a personal sway one way or another.
I can sort of see where Titus is coming from with ABR gut-wise, but he flaked out of my last game with a few jokey comments as scum. So I really need more to even think about reading him.
In post 301, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I mean we have three weeks but this game is moving quick. I'm forming some pretty ugly gutreads on people and I'd like some cold hard flips to have in my heart before I get bored and start theorizing.
You're saying his initial push as in his vote on you page one? Or his switch to Bells later?
His decision not to keep pushing me after his initial post where he could have done so easily.
Also my vote is kind of wasted now. Consider me still shadow-voting Frozen.
I misunderstood your first post and thought you want a fast lynch when you said you want to sort me out :
I'm happy to get a wagon up on Frozen Angel if that's possible and try to sort a player I haven't played with before.
when i posted my 3 reasons you posted this :
I asked Taly about his reasoning after my RVS vote and was happy to continue voting you. I wanted his read on Titus.
I answered this :
- Have I ever asked why are you voting me? I just asked why are you to eager to lynch anyone in page 2 and you wanted his read on titus based on 1 post?! and you asked him about his reads on titus base on a joke!
see? I was thinking you want to lynch someone fast and that was weird so I voted you. I clarified myself That I'm not voting you because of your vote on me particularly. I'm voting you because you want a fast lynch.
Taleh your case against me is weak , stupid , nonsense and useless , But I like to let it to be solved by night actions because I'm getting a weird town-vibes from you right now .
In post 306, JohnnyFarrar wrote:See I see the exact opposite because Bells looks like an easier target to me
And then Taly? I mean why wouldn't he pick his targets better or at least settle on one he thought he could push.
Wick wasn't a presence early, there was a full page in between voting Bells and voting Taly. Taly could have made himself a better target, his partners could have said to back off, he could have seen that not many were biting that sweet sweet Bells bait.
Phone posting. Low effort, big fun.
"In my heart, Johnny will always be scum" - Not_Mafia
Well it's probably just *partner* in this game rather than the plural. And that's a fuckton of if/then/maybes.
Dunno, I don't really like it. Also goes back to ABR's comment (somewhat surprisingly) that scum with daytalk would tend to be more talkative rather than less (whether I strictly agree with that or not ehhhhh).
You really have that much of a scumread on him? I've seen you pushing but don't really remember the thrust of the argument that he's scum.
- Have I ever asked why are you voting me? I just asked why are you to eager to lynch anyone in page 2 :| and you wanted his read on titus based on 1 post?! and you asked him about his reads on titus base on a joke!
see? I was thinking you want to lynch someone fast and that was weird so I voted you. I clarified myself That I'm not voting you because of your vote on me particularly. I'm voting you because you want a fast lynch.
Okay, actually, thanks for clarifying.
Still, this is a lot of time to burn on pointless argument when I've been answering your accusations.
In post 310, Frozen Angel wrote:Taleh your case against me is weak , stupid , nonsense and useless , But I like to let it to be solved by night actions because I'm getting a weird town-vibes from you right now .
I don't see why you think I'm scum for.
I've been wondering whether you'll scumhunt or not. A lot of the poking you've been doing at me hasn't struck me as productive.
talah wrote:Well it's probably just *partner* in this game rather than the plural. And that's a fuckton of if/then/maybes.
Dunno, I don't really like it. Also goes back to ABR's comment (somewhat surprisingly) that scum with daytalk would tend to be more talkative rather than less (whether I strictly agree with that or not ehhhhh).
I mean only one of those ifs has to be true, and those were only off the top of my head. Scum with daytalk might be more chatty, but only if they're actually online. The Taly vote looks like he logged on, saw Bells going nowhere, and adjusted accordingly.
In post 312, talah wrote:You really have that much of a scumread on him? I've seen you pushing but don't really remember the thrust of the argument that he's scum.
Big's not the word. It's a day one scumread and it's a good one. Better than anything else I've seen.
Phone posting. Low effort, big fun.
"In my heart, Johnny will always be scum" - Not_Mafia
In post 312, talah wrote:You really have that much of a scumread on him? I've seen you pushing but don't really remember the thrust of the argument that he's scum.
Big's not the word. It's a day one scumread and it's a good one. Better than anything else I've seen.
Who is this in reference to? Wickan or ABR?
>>>
We do have a high content D1 so far; I'm not exactly sure why talah and FA continue on about their original interactions in discussion. But there's nothing there that jumps to me as scum. I don't like FA saying how useless talah's case is, but I still get a newbtown vibe from them - it's really fluid, which sucks.
@talah
I can understand the whole 'Ice oldschool town archetype' but it rubs me the wrong way, I'm not understanding where his heads at, which bothers me. I do agree with John, it does feel like he has an agenda and that's why my read is torn on him.
Plus, I rarely hear town say something like:
"Oh, get over yourself"
Eckh.... Association tells aren't bad D1, but Ice has relied a bit on those on his reads which feels like he's creating a little world that revolves around who needs to be lynched rather than looking at his reads in an individual light. If that's understandable.
>
Wickan on the other hand... I can see misguided town; but him scumpainting me after he deliberately contradicted himself about his wagon is very deceptive, especially since it seems like he's actively pulling people toward something that was already looked at.
Plus he never looked back at my rebuttal toward him, and I feel like I need to prod him to get anything.
Needless to say, ABR may be better at helping reads with RC, Titus, and somewhat Wickan - but ABR is my only definitive scumread at the moment since I can't really figure out Wickan and Ice.
This bothers me more because half of the town seems to townread Wickan, and the other half seems to townread Ice - and vice versa with scumreading.
"Taly is going to be a hot mess all game and I am entertained" ~ Gammagooey
"The human race is bad at reading Taly." ~the worst
"Taly I knew your slot was scum and I still struggled to find arguments to SR your play lol" ~Infinity 324
"Taly wins for the most fence-sitty reads in a game ever" ~Battle Mage
In post 306, JohnnyFarrar wrote:See I see the exact opposite because Bells looks like an easier target to me
And then Taly? I mean why wouldn't he pick his targets better or at least settle on one he thought he could push.
Wick wasn't a presence early, there was a full page in between voting Bells and voting Taly. Taly could have made himself a better target, his partners could have said to back off, he could have seen that not many were biting that sweet sweet Bells bait.
The irony being of course that there's a lot more suspicion on RC, whereas I can't seem to convince anybody to look at Taly.
I have never become less suspicious of RC, but rather more of Taly. And the thing that set that off was, as I said, 110
In post 316, Taly wrote:
Plus he never looked back at my rebuttal toward him, and I feel like I need to prod him to get anything.
Honestly, I just got tired of doing back and forth walls with you that weren't getting anything done. I couldn't seem to convince anybody that you were scum and it wasn't changing people's minds about me. I just thought my time was better spent elsewhere.
On Albert: I actually don't think he's scum. I mean, he's being completely useless, but I'd rather we lynch somebody we think has a decent chance to flip as opposed to a policy lynch.
In post 314, Frozen Angel wrote:
I'm actually scumreading titus and wiccon as I said before. As I said I feel a weird connection between them.
But their already under pressure and I'm analysing people's reaction about them. I'll post my reads later today (don't have the time right now)
All the more reason to add to the pressure though. If you're suspicious, why would you sit back and let other people handle it? Wouldn't the townie thing to do be to add pressure? It looks like you just want to have other people do the dirty work, so that you can stay above the fray.
In post 314, Frozen Angel wrote:
I'm actually scumreading titus and wiccon as I said before. As I said I feel a weird connection between them.
But their already under pressure and I'm analysing people's reaction about them. I'll post my reads later today (don't have the time right now)
All the more reason to add to the pressure though. If you're suspicious, why would you sit back and let other people handle it? Wouldn't the townie thing to do be to add pressure? It looks like you just want to have other people do the dirty work, so that you can stay above the fray.
before my read post I must answer to this . First I don't have unlimited time and I can't defend myself / pressure / catch up in the same time, but I'm trying my best .
about me pressuring you - I voted you to see your reaction and it was awful. you started accusing others when people started asking you questions. this was weird.
I read your only meta town game in site and this is not like it all. I asked you a question about the ones your scum reading in your wagon and you refused to answer.
I don't like your attitude to get more offensive when your under attack.
but that won't surly sort you out as scum, its really related to your play style and its just like your town game I read.
I really like to ask people to put you in L1 to sort you out. But I'm more concerned about Titus weird comments about your wagon now. Its a day 1 wagon and surely its not that reasonable, so i don't see her points at all.
and you wanted his read on titus based on 1 post?! and you asked him about his reads on titus base on a joke!
