Newbie 1667: Bushfire! (Game Over)

[MortFeld]

Where is PC trying to persuade people to read Vet as town?

He made an argument that Vet was laying low, and that he is therefore probably a power role. That's how I read it, anyway.

Just seems like something scum might do to disguise other scum who, predictably, lurk.

[MortFeld]

Since we're doing condensed reads lists.

Town: Azor, GM

Null: everyone else

Slightly scummy: vett, Performer

Scum: PC

[AzoriusSenate]

@azoriussenate
127oh did you interpret my post 52 and 64 that way?
What if i told you that my real reason to vote you are "your lack of interest of the current game progress or finding scum or certain event as i mentioned in #64"?

106 which post of mine did you read as town?

I think someone else already stated this but I have been very involved in this game. You can read my analysis of the bandwagon on me for more insight into my thoughts. The reason I have a slight TR on you is that I think the way you are pushing on me is townie. I don't think you're actually trying to get me lynched here; this seems more like a reaction test sort of push. I will say the TR on you isn't on par with my other TR's so far in this game.

People I don't want to lynch today: Mort, Gm, AI
Nullreads/hard to say: Rad Rat (having a hard time reading RR), shrike (leaning town on shrike), Performer (leaning scum on Performer)
High chance I will vote on them: Phantom, vettrock

[goodmorning]

Why Vettrock?

[AzoriusSenate]

Why Vettrock?

The guy has posted like 8 times and hasn't offered really anything to this game. Nowhere near a town read for me. I guess he is kinda null but looking at the content of his posts it seems like he is trying to lay low. I don't like it one bit.

[AzoriusSenate]

@vettrock

At the very least can I have some updated reads from you and where your head is at right now?

[Radical Rat]

I think I'll have to V/LA for the rest of the weekend.

I'll still post when I can but I am unreliable until next week.

[vettrock]

I have been busy. I read through the recent posts and I will provide some further comments/reads.

[Cheery Dog]

Votecount 1.07

PhantomCobalt (3) Radical Rat; vettrock; MortFeld;
AzoriusSenate (2) ai_shuuu; PhantomCobalt;
vettrock (1) goodmorning;
shrike (1) Performer;
Radical Rat (0)
MortFeld (0)
Performer (0)
ai_shuuu (0)
goodmorning (0)

Not voting: AzoriusSenate;

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Day 1 Deadline: (expired on 2015-12-12 19:02:24)

[shrike]

Replying to some posts now so I don't fall too far behind. I'll do a reread tomorrow, reply to some more posts, and maybe post my reads.

Out of curiosity, would everyone here be happy if their vote target was lynched? It seems people use votes differently to what I'm used to (ie to provoke reactions, not just to lynch)

If we answered this question, it would effectively remove the pressure we're trying to put on these people. Would you feel pressured by a vote you knew wasn't really meant to kill?

I agree with this to an extent and I've realised that D1 lynch is not as important as I'd been taking it. However, I do think that a vote alone does not put much pressure on someone unless they are at L-1 and it is important to pressure them with questions as well (which you are sort of doing). The next quote is an example of a vote that doesn't put much pressure on me because it's not accompagnied by strong questions.

I think PC's self-vote is not very suspicious. However, as I said before I don't like his reaction to RR's accusation.

@shrike This is confusing to me as it sounds like you have ambivalent feeling about Phan.
Why do you believe Phan's self vote wasn't very suspicious?
VOTE: shrike

The self vote provoked reactions (ie RR with a townie post), created discussion, and got us out of RVS. It was on the first page IIRC, and there isn't really much to go off at that point so it doesn't seem like a bad gambit to me. What I don't like about PC is pretty much every post after the self vote (I'll go into more detail about this tomorrow).

114 - I'm the most voted player in the game. Why would I not be eager to remove my self vote?

The questions asked were more than why you removed your self-vote. I wanted you to justify your vote on Azorius. From my point of view it looked really weird that you sat with the self-vote on you for so long then decided to change it by jumping on a bandwagon instead of putting more effort into scumhunting or simply unvoting. RR's post pretty much mirrors how I see what you did:

Why indeed wouldn't you be eager to remove your self vote? You sat at L-1 for a very long time, and seemed to ignore all the posts telling you to unvote.... At least until you had an opportunity to put someone else at L-1..... Without announcing it.....

Also, if vet is laying low, can we assume that he is a power role? I play power roles purposely a bit scummy so that I'm left alone by mafia because they think I could be a future ML target.

Woah, this post is bizarre. It almost sounds like a softclaim.

I'll post a full explanation of my view on PC tomorrow, and maybe how I see a few other people. I'm happy to have him as a day 1 vote at this point though.
VOTE: PhantomCobalt

[ai_shuuu]

People I don't want to lynch today: Mort, Gm, Ai

Nullreads/hard to say: Rad Rat (having a
hard time reading RR), shrike (leaning town
on shrike), Performer (leaning scum on
Performer)

what really bother me on azor reads are :
He town read mort and nulling Rat when both of them are using the same reasoning to justify their vote on phantom; scum buddying a town. On top of that, i wouldn't read 56 as a strong post to town read mort, anyone can said what mort had been said.

He react so strongly on my first reasoning when i vote him but then he town read me when he think my vote on him is some sort of reaction test, or a push with no intent to lynch.
Well, i have to admit some of it is true, and somehow he had been generating more content recently. But i'm not really sure its because he had a wagon behind him or he really really want to do it.

And shrike...
Azor read shrike as lean to town by this post, correct me if im wrong
"Unvoting me taking me out of hammering
range. Me and shrike must be partners!! Case solved!"
Can you elaborate more on this @azor?

Then he Town read GM because some of GM's comment are somehow save him
Like when GM speak to performer "thats not it, thats not it at all"

I won't say anything about his read on performer and phantom tough. Both of them either doesn't have strong argument or (missinterpreting?) azor post.

[PhantomCobalt]

Well, I guess I'll just claim cop now.

[AzoriusSenate]

Well, I guess I'll just claim cop now.

[AzoriusSenate]

People I don't want to lynch today: Mort, Gm, Ai

Nullreads/hard to say: Rad Rat (having a
hard time reading RR), shrike (leaning town
on shrike), Performer (leaning scum on
Performer)

what really bother me on azor reads are :
He town read mort and nulling Rat when both of them are using the same reasoning to justify their vote on phantom; scum buddying a town. On top of that, i wouldn't read 56 as a strong post to town read mort, anyone can said what mort had been said.

He react so strongly on my first reasoning when i vote him but then he town read me when he think my vote on him is some sort of reaction test, or a push with no intent to lynch.
Well, i have to admit some of it is true, and somehow he had been generating more content recently. But i'm not really sure its because he had a wagon behind him or he really really want to do it.

And shrike...
Azor read shrike as lean to town by this post, correct me if im wrong
"Unvoting me taking me out of hammering
range. Me and shrike must be partners!! Case solved!"
Can you elaborate more on this @azor?

Then he Town read GM because some of GM's comment are somehow save him
Like when GM speak to performer "thats not it, thats not it at all"

I won't say anything about his read on performer and phantom tough. Both of them either doesn't have strong argument or (missinterpreting?) azor post.

The comment about shrike unvoting me was a joke.

I do have to agree that people have been town reading me and backing me up and that might be something to look at now that my top scumread has just claimed COP.

[AzoriusSenate]

Well, I guess I'll just claim cop now.

Let me start off by asking you

WHY DID YOU SELF-VOTE AS COP???

It put so much negative light on you and now you are hardclaiming cop.

Also, you outting is so bad dude. At this point, if you are telling the truth about your claim, mafia either A.

Is going to kill you tonight

B.

Has a roleblocker and is going to stop you from using your night action until we lynch that person.

I'm not even sure I believe your freakin' claim dude.

[Performer]

Where is PC trying to persuade people to read Vet as town?

He made an argument that Vet was laying low, and that he is therefore probably a power role. That's how I read it, anyway.

Just seems like something scum might do to disguise other scum who, predictably, lurk.

This post is confusing. You're telling me that PC spoke of vet being a town PR, then you spoke PC being scum and him covering for his scum buddy, vet.

[Performer]

I will say the TR on you isn't on par with my other TR's so far in this game.

Azor what do you mean by your townread of Ai isn't the same as your townread on others?

Nullreads/hard to say: Rad Rat (having a hard time reading RR), shrike (leaning town on shrike), Performer (leaning scum on Performer)
High chance I will vote on them: Phantom, vettrock

[/quote]
I used to be torn on people I had a tough time reading - Titus is infamous for giving off that impression in a game.

There's a quote I learned from, regarding people we have a tough time reading - we have to ask ourselves this question: would we be comfortable with that person being alive in LyLo? If not, then having them on the lynch list, is a good move.
Of course, this is just a general concept and things vary in situations.

[MortFeld]

Where is PC trying to persuade people to read Vet as town?

He made an argument that Vet was laying low, and that he is therefore probably a power role. That's how I read it, anyway.

Just seems like something scum might do to disguise other scum who, predictably, lurk.

This post is confusing. You're telling me that PC spoke of vet being a town PR, then you spoke PC being scum and him covering for his scum buddy, vet.

Yes... I analyzed what PC said beyond accepting it at face value. At face value, he said Vett might be a power role. On the other hand, people were questioning Vett's lurking. I was just suggesting a deeper meaning that may or may not be there.

I just want to say that I love Ai. Dude throws shit at everyone, and even though it's shit so sometimes it makes no sense, eventually something will stick.

What I think about the cop claim: isn't role claiming something scum sometimes do to confuse town and buy themselves time when they're about to die? That isn't particularly complex analysis but claiming cop isn't a particularly complex way to convince people you're not scum. I get that role claiming has its own implications but at its core it's also someone saying "I'm town! You have to believe me!" Furthermore, PC said earlier this game

Also, if vet is laying low, can we assume that he is a power role? I play power roles purposely a bit scummy so that I'm left alone by mafia because they think I could be a future ML target.

You certainly didn't lay low this game, PC. It's just hard for me to believe that you'd be trying to "get inside the mafias head before night," self-vote, and say

I'll put up my condensed reads list either around 4:30 pm et or 8:40 et

without putting up said list, all before claiming cop. My disbelief is compounded by the fact that you even stated that it's been your strategy to lay low as a power role. You're a player who expressly does the same things he's done in previous games (self-voting), so this is all just super weird for me.

Of course it does make me rethink my scum read, though if you are cop I'm not very happy with how you've been playing. I don't want to push too hard on a PC lynch, it's just he makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. Not in a pressuring way like Ai and Performer make me feel uncomfortable, but in a "I have no clue where your head is at or what your ends are" uncomfortable. I want to see what other people think.

[Performer]

shrike's 209 is something I've seen scum do - address some topics, put off other topics to follow-up on later. Looking through his profile, he has 13 posts so he looks new but his L-1 vote without announcing L-1 on PC, makes me continue scumreading him.

[Performer]

@Azor what's so unbelievable about PC's claim? He was at L-1 on day 1.

-----

Then he Town read GM because some of GM's comment are somehow save him
Like when GM speak to performer "thats not it, thats not it at all"

I won't say anything about his read on performer and phantom tough. Both of them either doesn't have strong argument or (missinterpreting?) azor post.

Ai...can you break this down for me? What do you mean gm's comments saved Azor so Azor townreads gm?
And not disclosing anything about his reads on me and Phan? Ai, you're scumreading me and Phan?

[Performer]

What I think about the cop claim: isn't role claiming something scum sometimes do to confuse town and buy themselves time when they're about to die? That isn't particularly complex analysis but claiming cop isn't a particularly complex way to convince people you're not scum. I get that role claiming has its own implications but at its core it's also someone saying "I'm town! You have to believe me!" Furthermore, PC said earlier this game

Mort I know you're new to this site, based on your profile post amount and the fact that you are in a newbie game. But I will lay it out right now in steps:
1. PC was put at L-1 on day 1
2. PC claimed Cop
3. There is simply no good reason for anyone to want him lynched
-----
And Mort, what do you mean a "pressuring way" like Ai and I have been playing??

I'm also very curious to see what others think. For the record, anyone who hammers PC at this point, gets an immediate scumread by me.

[Performer]

And PC, I'd still like to see your condensed reads.

[MortFeld]

Don't take this as suspicion from me at all, this question is only one of meta clarification. Why is my analysis of the cop claim less valid than yours? Does that hinge on there being no reason to lynch PC (i.e. if PC were scummier, we might have more reason to believe it's a false claim)?

[Performer]

Don't take this as suspicion from me at all, this question is only one of meta clarification. Why is my analysis of the cop claim less valid than yours? Does that hinge on there being no reason to lynch PC (i.e. if PC were scummier, we might have more reason to believe it's a false claim)?

One reason is because I defend valid PR claims no matter what town role I have.
It's d1. If he's scum and lives into d2, then we can go from there in addressing him.
But we don't lynch claimed PRs on day 1.
The other reason is because I suspect those who accuse PRs (especially in cases like this one), could be scum.

In your case though, you said the motive was for meta clarification. Fair enough.

[Performer]

Placing an FoS on goodmorning because she hasn't addressed my question, regarding her townread on Radical.