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[PJ.]

all my crying is moot, I just got a pyroclasm out of a conjurer that won the game.

twice

[Thestatusquo]

Dr. 7 is still the worst card ever.

At least Muster for Bullshit sucks vs Mage.

disagree.

Mysterious challenger is way more annoying to deal with most of the time from pali.

Also, reno is just the most frustrating card to play against ever.

boom doesnt even come close.

In other news I built freezemage. Been winning a lot with it. Not that many warriors.

[MTD]

heh, did you ever get mysterious challenger from an unstable portal while having 4 secrets in your deck? Fun times.

[xRECKONERx]

I like Reno because he makes control actually viable by increasing game length, and also makes sure that "aggro" means "actually aggro and has to kill you in 5 turns" instead of "play things that get damage value consistently".

[Thestatusquo]

Since when was control not viable? Two of the top decks in the pre-reno meta were Control Warrior and handlock. Control was already quite strong.

It doesn't mean "aggro has to kill you in 5 turns" it actually just makes aggro play in a non-aggro style. In a meta with reno pushing for damage is ALWAYS incorrect. It forces aggro decks to play a board control game they're not suited for because they have a better chance of winning that then winning a game where you sell out for damage just to see your opp gain 26 on turn 6.

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

[xRECKONERx]

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

And what a wonderful world it is.

[Thestatusquo]

Like reno fundamentally changes the game because its impossible to play around. Aggressive decks are not suited to trading because their minions are slanted towards maximizing damage and not sticking around very long. Have you ever tried to play board control with leper gnomes and huffers? It doesn't work. At the same time, expecting a deck to kill by turn 5 is a ridiculous burden in this game. If a deck were winning on turn 5 consistently there would be calls to nerf it coming from everyone. The fastest Facehunter deck I've ever played killed on turn 5 MAYBE 15% of the time.

Because of this, Reno just straight nerfs like 40% of the format. It is deeply unhealthy for the game.

[BROseidon]

Since when was control not viable? Two of the top decks in the pre-reno meta were Control Warrior and handlock. Control was already quite strong.

It doesn't mean "aggro has to kill you in 5 turns" it actually just makes aggro play in a non-aggro style. In a meta with reno pushing for damage is ALWAYS incorrect. It forces aggro decks to play a board control game they're not suited for because they have a better chance of winning that then winning a game where you sell out for damage just to see your opp gain 26 on turn 6.

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

Or you have to play a deck that can put out 30 damage in 5-6 turns, or still burst through a Reno drop

This is why Aggro Shaman is still viable.

[BROseidon]

The problem with Reno is that it makes any aggro not attached to Shaman unviable.

[BROseidon]

Reno is just OP right now - make Reno cost 2 mana more and it's probably fine.

[BROseidon]

The alternative is, like TSQ said, make aggro have a reasonable chance of killing by turn 5, which you can't do w/o breaking the game on non-Shaman.

[Thestatusquo]

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

And what a wonderful world it is.

I also prefer to play different decks, but that doesn't mean a meta where aggro is just completely unplayable is healthy.

[xRECKONERx]

Meh -- we've had metas dominated by super aggressive decks on ladder for a very long time now. While Handlock & Wallet Warrior were staples in the professional format (which operates very differently from ladder), ladder was still dominated by the "quickest games" mindset. Now, for the first time ever, I'm making actually interesting decisions in deck choice and during games when playing on ladder, and I'm able to see success from it.

We'll see how this affects the meta at professional levels. My thought is it probably won't look much different from the meta pre-LOE. The only thing it really effects is ladder, and I'm happy with how it has affected ladder. Losing to a fast deck that had perfect draws is endlessly frustrating in a game with no interaction.

[Thestatusquo]

It means ladder has decks that all look the same. That's not a good thing.

Also, if you werent making interesting decisions before then you were playing boring decks.

[AngryPidgeon]

I like Reno because he makes control actually viable by increasing game length, and also makes sure that "aggro" means "actually aggro and has to kill you in 5 turns" instead of "play things that get damage value consistently".

I'm tempted to run Reno-Hunter after my foray with Camel last night.

I'm not sure what list I'd run. My main issue with hunter is that they have so many cookies, the decks tend to build themselves for like 80% of the card slots.

[AngryPidgeon]

And by cookies I mean "high value, standalone class cards"

[AngryPidgeon]

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because of this, Reno just straight nerfs like 40% of the format. It is deeply unhealthy for the game.

Ya... I kind of like the card since its at least breaking the mold on some of Blizz's previous catastrophes (Shredder, Boom, Muster).

I'd love to see Blizzard managing a national park.

"Ok guys the deer are eating all the grass what do we do?"

"Well we can import some wolves from Siberia, they should eat most of the deer"

"YOU ARE GETTING A PROMOTION"

[BROseidon]

There's a reason hunter is pretty much stone unplayable right now.

HunterZoo sounds really dumb.

[AngryPidgeon]

It doesn't have to be "zoo" like.

The problem with control-y hunter decks is that the hero power doesn't really offer you anything in most matchups whereas Paladins can fart out value every turn if needed, priests and warriors can sustain against aggro, and Warlocks can get card advantage.

Finley turns a mostly useless power into something very useful. I beat a face hunter by Finley'ing into Lesser Heal. I beat two warriors by getting life tap which is excellent against control warrior.

Hunter has some strong and flexible cards, that isn't its biggest issue as a class.

[BROseidon]

I guess that works, but it also relies on you drawing a legendary

[Thestatusquo]

I have to say, in my freezemage matches finley grabbing a warrior power has been super annoying.

[Sudo_Nym]

As a curiousity, if I play Sir Finley to discover a new hero power, then play Justicar Trueheart, do I get the upgraded version of my original hero power, or my new discovered one?

[Thestatusquo]

Yep.

This is exactly what happened to me. I played pyroblast and opp went finley into armor up into justicar into tank up GGs.

[AngryPidgeon]

huh, I might go back and include Justicar in my Reno hunter list.