Mini 1738: Original Mafia (Day)

[IceGuy]

Ice, unless you somehow believe that town has a minority, scum can't send this to night.

Yeah but you can try to convince town to go to night. And you might even succeed if lynches keep failing to go through.

Also, there's probably 2 scum left. So my one buddy is going to send this to night? And don't feed me the "There could be 3". If you don't believe there are 2 scum left, then why did you support Buckwild?

I think Buckwild was scum but I'm not 100% sure. Unless you believe you should only lynch if there's a signed confession in triplicate, I don't see the problem here.

I did not coordinate a kill. Jesus Christ you have your panties in a knot over this. No one in the town is going to send this to night. I'm also not pushing a lurker narrative: There's no need to do so. The current way I want this played is to take out Itle/Hip and possibly you.

Looks like I became a suspect right after I decided to call you out as scum! That's quite a coincidence!

If I coordinate a lynch on you, it's not due to lurking (since Sun and the guy we haven't heard of from days are obviously the lurkers) but due to your connections to other lynches. I want activity and feel you're just using the standard script of me killing your motivation. That doesn't fly.

I never claimed you're killing my motivation. You're misrepping me.

Your 'other arguments'? This isn't an argument, this is just bad logic. It's PERFECTLY USELESS to 'coordinate a kill' if we're not going to night.

First of all, that's not my only argument. You haven't said anything about the hiplop push, for instance. Or about you trying to line up lynches.

Also, you seem to somehow be able to predict the future, given that you're saying we aren't going to night.

And WHY THE HELL would I push to look for NK coordination if I WAS THE ONE SIGNALING? Wouldn't it be better just to let that discussion not exist and just take nacho's view?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. You coordinated a NK and thought you could coast on your towncred.

[Aj The Epic]

Whatever. This is a pointless argument. You're too heavily into semantics and situations that won't occur. Come back when you feel like finding scum.

[sun_danyun]

Nacho was not the obvious kill by any means.

Actually, he kind of is. Nacho and AJ are (or rather were, but just a moment) the most obvious kills, as they are the most active and have taken a kind of leadership role. At least in my experience, unless one of them is actually scum, they are the in the most danger. Until now, anyway, since keeping AJ alive might be beneficial with his alignment suddenly being in question, he can act as a shield for the real scum. If Nacho dies the next night, suspicion would be on him.

Thing is that AJ doesn't want to go to night anytime soon, and it seems that I am probably the only one that does. If AJ

is

scum, then the only good explanation I can think of for his actions is if one of his

buddies

were to push for night, so he could keep his town face saying by continuing to say that we shouldn't. Seeing as how the only other person who has expressed wanting to go to night recently was itlepip, that would leave me as scum. But, I don't really have any sway like Nacho and AJ. Nobody is thinking, "well if Sun thinks it's a good idea then maybe we should go to night," at least not as far as I know. So even if that was the plan, it wouldn't work.

Maybe

there is a way that Aj could still be scum. He established that he believes in 2 lynches/day 601. He obviously doesn't want night right now, and wanting night after a second lynch only lines up with that post, so it couldn't really be used as an argument that he is scum like Ice was saying it could. If it went to night, Nacho died, and people pointed to AJ, he could reference it. As I said before, and as Ice implied, he has influence, so he could possibly be getting town to lynch each other as Ice said. However, he did vote for Buckwild to die. It'd be hard to believe he'd bus him. RM, yes. He messed up, there was no salvation. Buckwild, no. AJ didn't even try to defend him.

I think I just brought this full circle on why we should go to night, it can give us an answer. If Buckwild was scum, then it's probably safe to assume that AJ isn't. If he was town, then the question is still in the air. AJ didn't make much of his own argument against him and kind of went along with what Nacho said, so if Buckwild was town, then.. well, reasoning could easily be thought up for why AJ is either alignment, really.

Oh, but I suppose if that last paragraph actually convinced people, I'd look suspicious according to my own scenario, wouldn't I? That's problematic.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

Sun:

Here's the thing though: we are currently in mylo, with 4 mafia and 9 town, as I'm pretty sure the rules didn't say anything about needing to know the flips of everyone killed before a win condition is met. The first lynch must hit scum. I support Miko's idea of psuedovotes, we really can't afford to lynch at random right now.

I liked the urgency in this post with regards to believing it was MyLo and the town

really

needing to lynch correctly. If scum believed this earnestly (which I believe sun did, don't think he faked this at all), and didn't notice any other townies bringing it up at all and instead saw them plowing towards an early lynch, I don't think he'd bring that up. If hiplop was his scumpartner, he probably votes against it for some other reason but not because "it's mylo and we need to hit scum now".

I'm not liking the rush of innocent votes. Doesn't gain us anything. Feels like scum not wanting to risk their buddy.

RUSHING through lynches isn't going to help us at all.

I'm getting mixed messages here. Do you want to kill and flip, or slow down and analyze, which is it?

I think that scumbuddies would be especially sensitive to that crumb when it was dropped whereas townies would be a bit more oblivious (because they aren't zeroed in on scum's posts and aren't looking for crumbs), so this post is a point in sun's favor.

This is more or less why I want to be sure that we will know what the alignment of each and every person lynched is until there is only one scum left. And not just for reading AJ, but for reading everybody.

I like Sun's conviction wrt this; I don't think someone without influence would make an invested push to convince the town to go to night just so he could get kills and I think it's a risky move that puts him pretty far out in the open. I also don't think his argument is horrible, which is a huge plus: the idea that associatives could help us confirm/condemn AJ as scum isn't a horrible one although I disagree with it on the basis that information on associatives is not concrete and losing a major driver in the game isn't worth information of questionable value.

I'm satisfied with Sun in my townreads.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

I'm also more satisfied with Ice in my townreads after his push on AJ; I don't think scum in this position attack leader #2 but I can see town having a paranoia attack. I guess my minor paranoia there was based mostly on body of work, but that's a pretty dumb reason to be paranoid of someone and it isn't a problem anymore. I can expand on this later if anyone wants me to.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

My thinking is if we're accepting Ice for town, then it's a pretty clear divide (Hip/Itle being willing to jump on this fire wagon super hard, Sun being much more reserved [and obviously fire not liking it]).

It actually kinda fits Itle's overreaction to Randommidget earlier.

I think Sun is generally pretty reserved and Itle is pretty aggressive.
I don't think this line of logic is strong.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

Nacho was not the obvious kill by any means.

However, THANKS TO YOUR POST, now it is. You've just coordinated a kill.

If AJ is scum, I can't see scum shooting anyone but us.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

I'd like to move against Firebringer now. I think the Makoto point is strong.

The point that two attempts have been made and he hasn't been lynched despite no resistance makes him more likely to be scum if you subscribe to that particular brand of voodoo but I think it's just been hard getting everyone to push with a 7 people around for a 5 to lynch majority.

[Aj The Epic]

Actually realistically, if I were scum would there even be need for coordinating a kill? If we assume one of nacho/myself would die at night and I'm scum, there's not much of an option there anyways.

As for Sun/Itle it wasn't about how strong they were for/against the lynch, it was the fact that one was for and one against. At this point, buck!scum means scum basically is forced to coordinate unless they feel one of their remaining options is strong enough to win. The afk is basically confirmed town, too, so there really is no option for them but to work like that. I still think Hip/Itle makes the most sense here.

[Firebringer]

V/LA Site wide till Wednesday.

[IceGuy]

However, he did vote for Buckwild to die. It'd be hard to believe he'd bus him. RM, yes. He messed up, there was no salvation. Buckwild, no. AJ didn't even try to defend him.

On the other hand, he seems to have gotten massive towncred for it. As scum, you don't need to get everyone to live till the end, you only need one alive player.

And this of course assumes Buckwild is scum, which we can't be 100% sure of because there isn't a flip.

If AJ is scum, I can't see scum shooting anyone but us.

The problem is that it doesn't matter what you see. It matters what scum sees and everything that coordinates a kill towards a specific player is scummy.

[Firebringer]

I think I am now town leaning on Slaughterhouse that is cool.

Still to busy to do indepth posts or actually read whole thread.
Will be here on wednesday for more, sorry guys.

[Aj The Epic]

Fire, your opinion on Itle, sun, Ice and Hiplop please.

[sun_danyun]

However, he did vote for Buckwild to die. It'd be hard to believe he'd bus him. RM, yes. He messed up, there was no salvation. Buckwild, no. AJ didn't even try to defend him.

On the other hand, he seems to have gotten massive towncred for it. As scum, you don't need to get everyone to live till the end, you only need one alive player.

And this of course assumes Buckwild is scum, which we can't be 100% sure of because there isn't a flip.

If AJ is scum, I can't see scum shooting anyone but us.

The problem is that it doesn't matter what you see. It matters what scum sees and everything that coordinates a kill towards a specific player is scummy.

Do you agree in that we should go to night then? It risks a nk, but it's probable that it will solve the question of AJ's alignment. AJ will either be more or less confirmed town, or you will definitely have a chance to push your argument against him. Town would probably be more willing to listen to it at that point, and he might be lynched. The alternative, lynching AJ today, will almost guarantee the death of both of the town leaders (not to discredit your recent levels of activity), instead of giving one of them a chance. It is true that he could be playing us, like in your first response there, but I think that it's unlikely.

Even if you tried to push for AJ's death today, it probably won't happen. I'd vote against it for obvious reasons. Unless AJ slips, you give up your argument, or you can think of a third option, there isn't much else you can do. So, I suppose I'll continue to promote this idea.

[IceGuy]

Do you agree in that we should go to night then? It risks a nk, but it's probable that it will solve the question of AJ's alignment.

No way. The NK is almost guaranteed and if we lynched wrong, we are in MyLo.

[Aj The Epic]

I think nacho is getting apathetic. I also strongly believe itle is scum (would like a replacement on that last inactive slot...) and will make an accusation if no one has complaints.

[hiplop]

sorry guys, was super busy the last two days. Gonna do a catchup

[Firebringer]

Fire, your opinion on Itle, sun, Ice and Hiplop please.

Ice maybe possibly town. Town leaning.
Itle no strong opinions. Scum leaning
Hiplop I can't figure out how anyone can be town reading him, I even quickly glanced at his ISO, He is just flat null.

Tell me how Hiplop is town though? Anyone?

[Aj The Epic]

I don't have him as town.

[Slaughterhouse Five]

Fire, your opinion on Itle, sun, Ice and Hiplop please.

Ice maybe possibly town. Town leaning.
Itle no strong opinions. Scum leaning
Hiplop I can't figure out how anyone can be town reading him, I even quickly glanced at his ISO, He is just flat null.

Tell me how Hiplop is town though? Anyone?

This is Scum!Fire

[Aj The Epic]

What about it? The fact that he has options to lynch were he scum?

[Slaughterhouse Five]

I am apathetic; I'm waiting for mod situation to sort out.

[Firebringer]

This is Scum!Fire

It would be nice if you explained what makes this Scum!Fire but ehh. Not like it matters your hydra is as bipolar as [Insert Clever Funny Comparison Here]

[sun_danyun]

Do you agree in that we should go to night then? It risks a nk, but it's probable that it will solve the question of AJ's alignment.

No way. The NK is almost guaranteed and if we lynched wrong, we are in MyLo.

So you'll take the chance of lynching Aj now?

Perhaps things will get better after the holidays.

[Aj The Epic]

I'll have more thoughts on this coming up, but I have a major final tomorrow that makes or breaks the class for me.