NY 192: Game Shop Mafia (Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

game throw.

I'm flattered.

Go fuck yourself.

[TheCow]

I plan on it.

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: Page 3, AKA Keyser how could you

Yeah, FA if scum will be really obvious further on down the line so I'm not motivated to lynch her right this second.

VOTE: Fro99er

Weird as fuck opener.

+1 all openers are weird it's RVS child. (Hey it's Zulfy from a different point in time writing, I don't know whether or not to take this point away cuz of the discussion on the next page so I'll just leave it.)

Yeah, FA if scum will be really obvious further on down the line so I'm not motivated to lynch her right this second

Can Frozen Angel be "obvious" scum on Day One?


VOTE: Zulfy
Posting but not involved.

?? Total lie. Also the lack of reaction gifs in your opening disturbs me. +2 for this.

They still talked about OMGUS but I doubt that conversation goes anywhere.

Spoiler: Page 4 aka still boring

Yes, she can.

There's a critical difference in her mentality between her scum and town games that's really easy to sort if you know what you're looking for.

Mind sharing that info?

IS it?

Why overreact on something that is not?
How many votes is not serious?
Is there enough solid reasons on your wagon to 'make it a fast wagon and get over with it'?

I never overreacted to something that is not. I didn't even voted him because of OMGUS. It was RVS and I did something to gain intel. (one of my misterious tests!) and some people overreacted to it because they can't see further than their noses!

But Nero in the other hand questioned me about what I did and stated "I feel good about my vote" , well that's not a reason for joining a wagon.

and I said its getting sirious (that means we're out of RVS - lets start a valid conversation)

and I never said there is. I asked for them and he couldn't give me even one.

I feel good about my vote

Can you clarify why you're voting Nero?

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

Still not taking the game seriously I see

You scumread him for doing a weird RVS vote without ever having seen him do an RVS vote?

Right. But I was right in that I DIDN'T remember him making an opening like that. I just misremembered I hadn't seen him make an opening at all.

Would scum me really be that lazy on post one?

Invoking wifom, hell no +2.

[Zulfy]

game throw.

I'm flattered.

Go fuck yourself.

Isn't this thing supposed to notify me about posts and shit?
Glad to see you so emotionally invested, as always.

[Dwlee99]

Crap I did that thing again.

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: A bunch of pages, let's hurry this up

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: Fro99er

I don't like that as soon as I say that I'm suspicious of you and another person, you immediately vote the other person.

Aeronaut for benevolent supreme leader

Pisskop....What's your take on me so far?

Why so worried about what pisskop thinks of you? You know your allignment. Why not ask about what pisskop thinks of others?

I'm not worried.

Why are you spinning it as worry?

I'm trying to engage pisskop because all he's done is fluff post.

You are seriously pissing me off. I have no idea why you came in here to throw shit at me

You are mad at a person for doing what they are supposed to be doing, scumhunting.

[Shouting]

You serious?

As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Metabuilding is a thing that people do sometimes. +1

Like, FA is probably one of the strongest D1 town reads I've ever had on D1 outside of masonry.

That can't be true +1

So what I like to do when I play this game is quote things I want to respond to as I read up. There was a bit I missed overnight so this was probably going to be a long post.

However, I reach the last page and suddenly lost my desire to care because Mafia is a bullshit game. What's the point of playing if people can just meta read so hard? Like either Aero/Fro99er are both scum or they are both town (most likely the later) but the fact that the can just "townread" each other like that defeats the purpose for me. I can't get back into the meta of this game because I don't know enough of peoples meta.

Fro99er has been acting more and more increasingly textbook scummy until about the breaking point when they town-read each other. A town player getting flustered because he knew another aggressive townie was going to push him, yeah I get that. It's a little bullshit though.


Spoilers below for my "quotes" but don't see a reason to respond to half of those now.
[Was a bitch to find and format]

unvote

I'll just come back later and try to figure out who to vote then.

VOTE: Death Note

This basically reads as "I'm scum and its not fair how people are townreading each other!!!"

Don't forget completely and utterly useless as far as posts go. I'd vote Deathnote right now but I don't know the VC.

In regards to the mutual townreading of Frog and Aero I feel that I don't know enough about each player to form a good opinion on the matter. I'll just take it as face value and see it as two town players who know each other very well town-reading each other.

^cows last posts was a bunch of nothing. What was your intentions when you posted that?

More hypocrisy hot damn +2

[davesaz]

Are you sure on RC? More null to nullscum to me.

Oh that's interesting, care to share?

774

[RadiantCowbells]

RC claimed scum but it was obviously sarcasm in response to what was going on in the thread at the time. I never have an easy time reading RC but I do know there is just enough crazy under the hood to do this while scum. The rest looks more town than what I'm used to seeing, but I'm going to call it null-scum for now and remain vigilant.

Hold it so you agreed that it was obviously sarcasm and I look more town than usual
BUT because there's a CHANCE that I'd do something as scum so I'm null scum?

VOTE: Davesaz

[Zulfy]

Spoiler: Hopelessly catching up because I'm Santa Claus

Unvote. Vote: Aeronaut

RC is probably scum, actually. I am p sure of it.
And D5 when town decides to lynch you and you flip scum, rc?

Why is RC scum?

Because her vote on me. She should know better.

Grossss
You can't expect any of us to relate to your personal knowlage of RC or his personal knowledge of you. This is subjective and not in any way a real argument.

You asked Dwlee for his reasoning. So why, when he gives his reasoning, do you discount it because it's personal knowledge rather than attempt to understand the reason itself? I think it's unreasonable that you would complain about the reasoning being un-relatable considering he only gave the reasoning because he was asked for it.

Well yeah, Dwlee had to give a reason, Aero was in the right to ask him for one. Dwlee gave him a bad reason, Aero was in the right to think it was gross.

Also, what does grossss mean in the context of a mafia game?

Sure. Here's the exact post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7188512

I was also scum in that game though, which means most of what I said was just BS

Not sure why this matters. Even if you were scum, it still remains true that you acknowledged him vote hopping in another game where he was town - yet voted him for similar behavior here.

Generally when town he gets into a townVtown and really flustered early on. Check Refraction Mafia if you want to see a good example of this, I almost had to replace him multiple times. As scum, he's really calm and quiet and non confrontational; check Delicious Mafia 2 if you want a good example of that.

Is this grossss?
Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

No opinions on any of the other stuff going on in the game at this point? Why you picking on Supreme Leader (my strongest townread)?

To clarify, I don't know Dwlee's play half as well as he asserts.

I'm not sure what to think of the outburst but I really don't like DeathNote's last so I'm staying on it.

You have seen my scum game, this isn't it.

Screw that +1

[Zulfy]

So Frozen vote hopped to get a reaction from people, she got a reaction. That's that over on that side.
What I'm worried about is that she's STILL on that at the end of page 8, no scumhunting at all. Just a bunch of facepalms and giddiness at her reaction testing maneuver.
Nothing else tho.
So how many scumpings is that? Idk, I'll put that down as 5. 5 whole scumpings, you're flooding the market over here girl +5

[Keyser Söze]

JarJarDrinks, if you are town I think you may be blinded by confirmation bias:

See, I think this shows a pretty scummy mindset.

he immediately goes into scum defense mode cause he's being accused.

Yes, I immediately defended myself against your accusation that I "know DNs alignment". Why is this scum-indicative? Why can't I immediately defend myself against your slander? It was a "defensive" mindset. Not a "scummy" mindset.

He doesn't care about any other part of the post except the part that attacks him.

The second part of your post demanded my immediate attention (post 781), but it is not to say I did not care about the whole of your post. I have a defensive disposition, thus, I naturally react to counter everything I think is a lie.

After re-reading the interactions, I revisited your original post. I then responded to your "best case" scenario of 'DN making a claim and being countered by someone' (post 783). The idea was tactically a short-term high risk, but I realised the long term benefit, to counter the WIFOM DeathNote's post had created.

In conclusion, 1) I think your allegations that I know DeathNote's alignment is unfounded and false and 2) I believe you are wrong to call my defence as from a "scummy mindset" and that I am guilty of "scum defense mode". This points to the following i) it was a possible confirm-bias attack ii) it was possible miss-repping to try and miss-lynch me.

I will continue my observations on your thought-process.

[Zulfy]

I have a crush on Frozen Angel.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually, FA can basically go fuck herself with a cactus right now but she's still town.

[Zulfy]

Maaan you people are justnuts

Why is everyone here ignoring me? It's making this pretty boring...

And Dwlee is probably town.

A lurkasaurus that burps scum every time it speaks +2

Wow, that was quite a lot to catch up.

The impression I'm getting through the last several pages is that dwlee is scum caught for the wrong reason.
First there may have been some misinterpretation of his stance about vote hopping being scummy.
That got cleared up and he's taking heat for an opinion which goes against the grain a bit.
Having a position which is "wrong' compared to the norm isn't scummy per se, but the reaction certainly looks it.

VOTE: Dwlee99

I'm skimming superfast at this point so if you could clarify this point it'd be appreciated

Yo Keyser you didn't answer Dave's question about your vote on me mang. Also you changed your avatar I was only joking remember the Lhix that sure was a shitshow wasn't it? +1

PEDIT: Can't wait to find out what caused that reaction.

[Zulfy]

The over-reactions/meltdowns/emotional hyperbole is becoming tiresome.

Some reaction gifs would lighten the mood, fam.

[Keyser Söze]

I am upset because he is saying mislynches are wins. THEN he repeates himself. And yes, dave, I am pissed that my mislynch would be a win but that isnt my case atm.

Dwlee99, due to my frustration with the substance of your scum-cases and the content of your town/scum confirms, I posted that I wouldn't mind if you were lynched - as scum or town. This was very wrong of me to post this. If you are town and miss-lynched, me thinking it would be a "WIN" is very anti-town. I apologise for this post. My anti-town behaviour and attitudes works against my WIN-CON, thus, I feel ashamed looking back. Once I realised the majority of your ISO was just you tunneling me, I decided to help you scum-hunt:

Do you want to talk about any of your other "reads" or progression of reads?

I can understand clearly how town-Dwlee99 could think that someone saying your miss-lynch is a WIN, is both anti-town and scummy.

However, your ISO lacks an earnest progression of trying to find out the alignment of all the other players. Your apparent scum-read of me is clear, however, your focus is narrow. This concerns me greatly.

[Zulfy]

Literally page jumping here. If I miss anything super important you'll all just help me out right?

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

Looking at his ISO, this is surprisingly really true. Looking into that after this post

Wickedestjr is the santa hat guy, I had to check their name. They seem to be active lurking with their last few posts or they're just lost.

I

am

somewhat lost. The only person that I suspect right now hasn't posted since I voted for him. Having said that, I asked each question for a reason and just because you don't see that reason doesn't mean I'm scum that's active-lurking...

Stop asking questions pls.

What should I do instead?

Find something to talk about.

Also I'm completely flipping my read on wicked to town.

Why is this? Nothing really changed since you just said he hadn't done anything/

Page 4.

Would scum me really be that lazy on post one?

Is this WIFOM necessary to defend yourself?

Page 5.

I gain a ton of information asking what pisskop thinks

Please can you share this "ton of information".

Page 6.

Aero is probably town, because I don't think he, as someone I consider a MS friend, would make me this angry if he was scum who knew I was town.

Scum theatrics or frustrated townie?
Null for me.

Page 8.

If RC is probably scum, then why are you not voting him? Instead, you are sheeping Aero's page 1 "I don't like this post" vote for Frozen Angel, which he removed a few pages later...

Valid point.

Do you think Fro99er is aware of this tell?

Good question.

vla 2 days

UNVOTE: Zulfy
I'll be back.

It feels like scum trying to be playful and integrate themselves into the game.

Have you seen any further evidence for this?
Could town be "playful" and trying to "integrate themselves into the game"?

This is a really barebones response to like 15 pages of game.

A lot of big egos in this game Supreme Leader, which leads to too much haystack to bother finding the needle

Also, are you inviting Zulfy because he decided to go V/LA? What sense does that make?

Ooh I almost missed this. Seems to me like Keyser's planning on tunneling me. Which aught to be fun, now that I'm here.

[Zulfy]

That last post I just made! I forgot to spoiler it! Focus on the magenta font, that's me right there, that magenta font.

[Zulfy]

Also I thought Darth Meesa was in this game, or did I really just miss all his posts?

[Keyser Söze]

Still not giving reasons because I like watching robot get annoyed

I would appreciate it if you please explain your reads. I would like to study the thought-process behind who you are calling town and scum.

This is a good start:

Dwlee I'm reading based off his emotions on how I pushed him earlier.
He's also starting to do some town things I cant expand upon further.

Can you describe how those "emotions" were town-indicative? I usually find emotional posts hard to label with an alignment. Please could you list and explain these "town things" Dwlee99 is doing when you have time.

I weirdly feel like pisskop is trying harder than normal (?). It's a really shitty meta read, but I've never been able to read PK.

My scum-lean read of pisskop is not based on meta, but I found your comments interesting. I am currently frustrated with pisskop's reluctance to respond to my queries and questions.

I can buy Dwlee being town.

Cause he doesn't make sense as scumbuddies w/ a few of my other scumreads

.

I am curious - do you have any other reasons to town-read Dwlee99, except for pre-flip association tells with your other scum-reads?

[Zulfy]

Found Darth Meesa and a bunch of juicy stuff I missed. After looking at a chunk of his ISO it seems to me like we're riding the same wavelength here.

I like RadiantCowbells now. I really like his meta defense of FA (who I'm townreading also). It wasn't some lame scummy soft-defense. He really went above and beyond and clearly doesn't want her lynched.

Can you show me where this was please?

pisskop.
Here's the picture.
DeathNote has basically claimed he has PR (that will apparently deter us not to lynch him).
On forum mafiascum that basically translates to: "Hi, I'm scum. Fuck off".
Why do I know?
I've said those words both as town and scum in past games.
The catch is, he might actually be sitting on a very powerful town PR.
If he is, the scum are eager to see him full roleclaim early.
From my perspective the WIFOM it has caused is a bitch.
I called it as bad play as soon as I read it (whatever his alignment).
Now he should only roleclaim if he is at 'Intent to hammer'.
No earlier.
No shortcuts.
People should only vote DeathNote because they think he is scum.
Not, "roleclaim now muthaf***er".

See I disagree w/ this (even though I'm aware that it's not standard MS play).

I think the information town gets is greater than whatever scum gets. Cause scum already has one big peice of information: they know if deathnote is town or not.

DNs claim will help us determine his alignment.

Lets say for example, I'm a medic. If DN doesn't get lynched, should I consider healing him tonight? Probably not since he could very well be scum. Which is pretty shitty cause he could have an important town role.

So basically:

- If DN is scum then getting a claim out of him helps town only
- If DN is town then getting a claim out of him helps both town and scum

It's +EV

I'm reminded of a certain grey fox and a heavy metal snail.

a) if scum, you will be exposed for posting/pushing weak scum cases (your second one so far this game).
b) if town, you will be miss-lynched for posting weak scum cases.

It is a WIN-WIN for me. Not for you.

Keyser, can you explain why b is a win for you? I don't think you have explained this, yet. If you have, then a post number is all I need.

He's saying that mislynching town is a win for him becuase he is scum and wanted everyone to know it.

Are you being sarcastic? Seems quite clear to me that Keyser thinks that even if Dwlee is town, the town will benefit by eliminating him because he's acting very anti-town.

[Zulfy]

The party did not start until I walked in.

There are other things but I want people to react to my arrival.
To Do: Examine The Cow, and DeathNote's supposed claim, also find the VC

[Keyser Söze]

Yo Keyser you didn't answer Dave's question about your vote on me mang

I will look it up now:

VOTE: Zulfy
Posting but not involved.

Were you paying attention to when the posts occurred? I could buy in to "not involved" as a scumtell but there would need to be something to be involved in at that time.

Yes, at the time I posted the vote I believe I was concerned by both the level of activity and content of your posts. It was early game, and it appears I must have looked at your posts in isolation.
When you posted you were V/LA, I felt the power of my vote was then redundant or best used elsewhere. I think your current observations and reads are very refreshing to read.

[Dwlee99]

Fine Keyser.
UNVOTE: Keyser

I don't have any real reasons for my reads atm, tbh. It's a lot of gut. >.<

I have wicked, rc, pisskop, aero and fro99er as town.
Not really sure about scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't understand how Dwlee could not have somewhere to put his vote.

I want to lynch Wicked because he's flat and evasive, cites a terrible meta incident where he actually fucking lynched me, and he keeps throwing shots from the side at the DN wagon.
I want to lynch DN because of his bizarre flip flop WRT meta reads and his terrible soft.
I want to lynch Cow and FA on policy, FA because of reasons I can't share and Cow because he's an obnoxious shit.
I want to lynch PK because he's really sidelining this game but I don't wanna lynch him because he flipped town last time and when he was scum I was like dead certain he was scum.
I want to lynch Davesaz because he gave a bunch of reasons to town or nullread me then put me down as a small scum read, and the rest of his reads seem to just follow general crowd mentality.
I could lynch Dwlee because he isn't posting analysis and his unsupported reads seem to follow the general flow of the town, and because apparently he has too many townreads? like how can you NOT have someone to vote in this game.

Christ.

So I'm not understanding how you could be not voting right now when there's a billion people who need to be lynched today.