Blitz 14: Murder on Madness Mountain GAME OVER!

[Ythan]

Vote Count

Ranger: Firebringer, Rob13 (2)
Firebringer: Soren (1)

Not voting: absinthe, davesaz, Jackal711, Ranger

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-12-25 19:40:00).

[Rob14]

I think I know what the setup is because I ran it once before as a closed bastard game.

But a massclaim is a terrible idea. Knowledge of the setup (if it is what I think it is) would not help us any.

So you know what the setup likely is but are witholding that info because it is hurtful.

Like if you are town you are asking to get night killed.

Have you never heard of "He knows too much!"
I mean, you are basically embodying that.

My information doesn't benefit the town at all if I'm right. It potentially hurts the town if I'm wrong, which is why massclaim is a bad idea.

I would not provide my information at any point in the game, because it would never be beneficial to town to know the setup.

[Ranger]

I think I know what the setup is because I ran it once before as a closed bastard game.

If the setup is what I think it is, it's misleading, not bastard.
I think that massclaim will help reveal who the mafia are.

Ranger was lining up lynches on two players, one of which we now know is town (CN), and the other of which I think is town (Fire). This is inherently scummy.

I most certainly was not. I did not vote CN, I unvoted Firebringer, I backed off of both lynches you're accusing me of lining up, and did so with explained reasoning.

[Rob14]

After I called you on lining up lynches. That hardly gets you town points.

My bastard was not bastard either. That was the point - I lied about it being bastard. I'm almost positive we're thinking the same thing.

If we're wrong, PRs die.
If we're right, the setup could be designed in a way that it's impossible to tell who's scum even if all roles are claimed. There is no benefit.

[Jackal711]

Ranger was lining up lynches on two players, one of which we now know is town (CN), and the other of which I think is town (Fire). This is inherently scummy.

I most certainly was not. I did not vote CN, I unvoted Firebringer, I backed off of both lynches you're accusing me of lining up, and did so with explained reasoning.

After I called you on lining up lynches. That hardly gets you town points.

Very good point.

VOTE: Ranger
I believe that's L-1

[Ranger]

After I called you on lining up lynches. That hardly gets you town points.

Hardly gets me town points, sure, but invalidates your point. I never pushed CN, I backed off of Firebringer, that was based off of me reconsidering my reads, and I showed why. Calling me out on lining up mislynches does nothing.

I'm almost positive we're thinking the same thing.

If we're wrong, PRs die.
If we're right, the setup could be designed in a way that it's impossible to tell who's scum even if all roles are claimed. There is no benefit.

Well I suppose there was benefit from this after all. I agree we're probably thinking the same thing, and from it I think you're town.

Very good point.

VOTE: Ranger
I believe that's L-1

Rob.
JACKAL putting me at L-1 doesn't concern you...at all?

Like...really?
At all?

Regardless of whether we massclaim or not, Jackal is scum.
VOTE: Jackal711.

[Ranger]

{absinthe}
{Rob13}
{davesaz, Soren, Firebringer}
{Jackal711}

Minor reset for davesaz/Soren/Firebringer; not sure who's the second scum. But Jackal most definitely is one.
Check out his lurking and utter opportunism the whole game.

[Ranger]

Fire comes off as scummy to me.. though I don't like the fact that Soren's posts have been nothing but an attempt to push the Fire wagon.

At least one of those 2 is scum...

Hey, Rob.
You accused ME of lining up mislynches.

What do you think of this, then?

Also, note the opportunism.

[Ranger]

Like...you said this.

Some people express Soren concerns and immediately you're trying to start a counter-wagon there to save yourself?

Then look at who Jackal pushes in 59: Firebringer (the lead wagon), and Soren (who people had expressed concerns about).

[Jackal711]

Okay thank you.

UNVOTE: Ranger
You can be town.

[Ranger]

127 was opportunistic (making the ChaoticNeutrality wagon the largest) and did not follow from his "One of Firebringer or Soren is scum" thought.

Then, again ignoring the Firebringer/Soren thought, you get his recent 204, blatantly sheeping you, Rob, and placing me at L-1...again with no thought of his own and ignoring his previously-stated sentiments.

Jackal is not scumhunting.
He is also the player with the least number of posts in the game at five. He's avoiding giving content entirely.

[absinthe]

VOTE: jackal

[Ranger]

Doing a triple-iso of davesaz/Soren/Firebringer, I keep on going back-and-forth. Overall, Soren comes out looking fairly neutral-to-town consistently, so of the three, I'd think Soren's probably the most town.

Firebringer I go back-and-forth on. On the one hand, we get some blatant buddying/omgus/reverse-omgus in the form of things like 146 and also contradicting reads. On the other hand, I see Firebringer raising good points every once and a while, showing what looks like unique thought.

davesaz similarly has some good moments, but a lot of his pushes don't make sense.

I didn't like Soren's reply to my question and agree that he looks shady. Thinking that we have scum caught does not obviate the need to look at everyone else.

This, while voting Firebringer. In 78/79, davesaz also makes CN/Soren suspicion, yet his vote was still on Firebringer.

I'm here and would be willing to vote either Ranger or CN.

Then we get me appearing out of nowhere, when a wagon was forming; why did he suddenly support a lynch on me?

Especially given that, today, he posted this:

Fire, Rob: why Ranger over Soren?

The thing which makes me hesitate is this:

Pretty worried they're both town. I'd prefer Soren or Jackal, but neither is an option without 2-3 more people online.

He mentioned Jackal as a lynch, when nobody else (aside from me) did.

Still, if I had to guess, davesaz would be my current pick for second scum.

[Rob14]

VOTE: Jackal

That was pretty terrible.

[davesaz]

It would help if you didn't edit out the post numbers. You're ignoring / trying to hide how close the deadline was.

[Rob14]

After I called you on lining up lynches. That hardly gets you town points.

Hardly gets me town points, sure, but invalidates your point. I never pushed CN, I backed off of Firebringer, that was based off of me reconsidering my reads, and I showed why. Calling me out on lining up mislynches does nothing.

No, it really doesn't invalidate my point.

My mistake, it was Ricastle you lined up, not CN. My apologies.

Ranger, how come I'm so low on your list?

Because I'm not convinced you're town, particularly if Firebringer were to flip town. If Firebringer flips scum, then I'd look to see if I thought your interactions were that of scumbuddies, but until then, you're not sending strong signals which say town.

That post directly says "If X is town, Y is scum". That's textbook lining up lynches on town, and further, I think you killed Ricastle at night to try to dodge the argument about lining up lynches. You didn't want to have to push him or move off of him awkwardly because I had called attention to how scummy all that looked.

Moving off Fire after I noted that you were lining up lynches doesn't invalidate my point. It's you doing damage control. You can't do something AFTER I note a tell and then say "Oh, that means I never did the tell!" There's no takebacksies here. You can't just withdraw your read and walk away.

[Rob14]

Dave is town. I'm predicting a {Ranger, Jackal} scum team where they're desperately cross-bussing because they're both being scumread hard.

[Firebringer]

I don't know about that. Seems odd that Jackal voted and unvoted fast sure, but that seems more like a town tell than a scum one.

Usually scum don't bus softly like that. At least from my experience.

[Rob14]

Town tell on who? Jackal or Ranger?

[davesaz]

Here's the sequence with post number references. Also note the selective editing.

Vote Count

Chaotic Neutrality: absinthe, Jackal711, Ricastle (3)
Firebringer: Soren, davesaz (2)
Ranger: Rob13, Firebringer (2)
Rob13: Chaotic Neutrality (1)
Jackal711: Ranger (1)

Not voting: None

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-12-20 04:24:00).

I posted this a few minutes after midnight. If I don't move my vote it's almost guaranteed to be a no-lynch.

I'm here and would be willing to vote either Ranger or CN.
Unless someone else is around other than Rob, we're stuck with CN as the only possibility with our 2 votes to swing, since he's already on Ranger.

And this a few minutes later.

Pretty worried they're both town. I'd prefer Soren or Jackal, but neither is an option without 2-3 more people online.

VOTE: Ranger L-1

Ranger posted numerous rainbow reads which is more info. I think we'll end up having to switch.

[Firebringer]

Town tell on who? Jackal or Ranger?

Jackal.

[Rob14]

How does quickly backing down once you're pressured make him seem town?

[Ranger]

That post directly says "If X is town, Y is scum".

It really, really doesn't? Read it again. "I'm not convinced you're town, especially if Firebringer is town" does not translate into "If Firebringer is town, Ricastle is scum". It translates into, exactly what it says, me not being convinced Ricastle's town, especially not if Firebringer was also town.

"If Firebringer flips scum" is obviously not chaining mislynches because it

requires a scum lynch

.

I think you killed Ricastle at night to try to dodge the argument about lining up lynches.

I knew Ricastle was a deputy. (That's why Ricastle became my top-townread.) You know why I wouldn't kill them.

I posted this a few minutes after midnight. If I don't move my vote it's almost guaranteed to be a no-lynch.

I'm quite aware you were willing to vote both top wagons. That's my

point

: CN you had lead-in for, so it makes sense you'd be willing to vote there. (He was a scumread of yours.) But you expressed no reason for why you'd vote me.

[Ranger]

(And, seriously. Why do people keep on thinking I as scum would kill my top townread?)

[davesaz]

I posted this a few minutes after midnight. If I don't move my vote it's almost guaranteed to be a no-lynch.

I'm quite aware you were willing to vote both top wagons. That's my

point

: CN you had lead-in for, so it makes sense you'd be willing to vote there. (He was a scumread of yours.) But you expressed no reason for why you'd vote me.

No other lynch was even a remote possibility. Your lynch was only possible if someone other than Rob and me was hanging around. Lynch > no lynch.
As town I'm always willing to lynch

someone

vs. no-lynch, other than the obvious cases where a no-lynch is strategic in mylo/lylo situations.

If someone had come in and hammered then we would have had that as an analysis point.