Mini 1749: Classic Rock Mafia: Game Over!


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:00 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Classic Rock Mafia:
Votecount #1.10:

Radja (3): Albert B. Rampage, Frozen Angel, Taly
Dierfire (3): iraonavp, Aeronaut, MattP
Albert B. Rampage (2): Radja, Dierfire
MattP (1): Garmr
iraonavp (1): Lowell
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Aeronaut (0):
Mathilda (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Lowell (0):
Dwlee99 (0):
Garmr (0):
Taly (0):



Not voting: Mathilda, Dwlee99, AlwaysInnocent

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Night falls in (expired on 2016-01-08 21:00:00).



Song:
ACDC: Back in Black



Notes:
Memorable in the pilot of Supernatural, which has reached its 11th season.

Important:
Bold tagged votes will no longer be accepted in the interest of RC being a lazy bum. Please use the vote tags.
Last edited by RadiantCowbells on Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 248, MattP wrote:Your opinion of me is so stale - I've explained my rationale to you. You've ignored my explanations until I forced you to engage me (why is it so difficult to get you to engage me? Shouldn't you want to engage me? Don't you want me dead?) and then I provided further explanations that clearly explain the things you have reservations with (I'm not an idiot, I can see clearly that my explanations make sense, other people are fine with my explanations and have unvoted me). You're forcing puzzle pieces to fit into your story line of why I'm scummy to you (seriously, you think I'm "crumbing" and that "doc doesn't fit into the setup"?)

You're either tunnel-visioning or you're forcing the read, I'm the only person you've called out all game (other than to say, "Radja is scummy but mattp is scummier so I feel uncomfortable moving" with no explanation for why Radja is scummy)

HAHAHA wow and this was from the genius who down played him self but now he has no pressure he gets confidence fucking obvious mafia not moving my vote now.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:13 pm

Post by Garmr »

Just look at matt p change of personality after the pressures off if that doesn't ring mafia then I don't know what does.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:19 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 252, Garmr wrote:Just look at matt p change of personality after the pressures off if that doesn't ring mafia then I don't know what does.

lmao
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:20 pm

Post by MattP »

By downplayed you mean, "responding fairly to people pressuring me" and by "confidence" you mean being done with your lazily and incompetent push then yes, you have your finger on the pulse of the situation
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:22 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 138, MattP wrote:
In post 137, Garmr wrote:How could it be helpful what did you expect as a answer?

It still doesn't change the fact your pushing that the question to harmless. Your just doing it in a different way. Post 136 indicates that. It wasn't your question that took us out of rvs btw it was me who did it. Who decided to push you for it. So doing that to try and justify the logic is extremely bad especially because your plan was obviously not "make myself look bad to move out of rvs".

You're not even directly responding to what I'm saying. I never said I brought us out of RVS, I said that asking someone a question about a possible non-RVS
could
bring the game out of RVS. I've brought games out of RVS, by engaging people, it's not earth-shattering logic.

His vote could have been based on him not liking Aero's reaction, and there could have been shitty or reasonable logic behind it, or it could have been a meaningless entirely RVS vote. I was simple asking to engage a player and gauge a response/reaction from that player. My point was that there could be utility to that - at worse it could do nothing. The point was, "what's the harm to engaging people in RVS?" not "look how harmless I'm being!"

I don't care if you brought us out of RVS, congratulations. I'm not at all concerned :roll:

In post 139, MattP wrote:And for the record, yeah, it did nothing. His response of "why not" made it clear it was a random vote and I didn't continue the conversation. If he said, "because he responded in an awkward way" or something to that effect then I would have continued that discussion.

In post 141, MattP wrote:And if you think people don't over-rationalize votes like that in early-game, or try to rationalize votes like that in early-game, you're wrong, it happens all the time.

In post 143, MattP wrote:Especially newbs. If someone like Reckoner or kanye made that vote I wouldn't have asked why. The player that made the vote joined the forum in 2015, my threshold for assuming the worst of newbs in lower than that for experienced players.

pedit: if you're on firefox, that's what's wrong. Idk why.


Garmr, this didn't deserve a response?
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:51 pm

Post by Radja »

In post 222, Taly wrote:
Can you explain your Garmr townread?

Also, you said that my miller claim would be dealt with. Why not now, and when is later?


Garmr was the one who originally pushed MattP for his question in RVS. He posted what I was thinking before I got the chance to make a post about it myself. That's usually something that gives me an immediate townread on someone. The pushing of MattP was also the end of RVS, which moved the game forward.

About the miller claim, what I mean is that it's not unlikely it will sort itself out. Whether you are lying or not, there are PR's in this game, and it is possible for one of them to out you if you are lying. So you get to live through day 1, at least. I'll deal with your claim if it becomes a problem(which would be right before LYLO, most likely)
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:59 pm

Post by Radja »

In post 229, Mathilda wrote:
In post 183, Radja wrote:
In post 180, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 176, Radja wrote:P-edit: You are actively not engaging in the game, while Mathilda is not around and will get replaced if it continues. That's a big difference. I have asked you a question twice and you refuse to answer. Which probably means you have no answer for it. That gives me a scumread on you.


you asked that once and he answered it BTW. he stated that he want to push Mathilda slot till he find something worth to push for. I think this is a quiet misrepresenting about what happened to make the easiest vote out of Mattp since it was getting messy there.



he did not. Pushing a slot that hasn't posted is bullshit. Stating that a non-posting slot is a worthy lynch is also bullshit.


That's because lynching a slot that has not posted generates no information at all for town. The only thing we have going for us on Day 1 is the ability to lynch, and that tells us who was opportunistic, who tried to apply pressure, who responded badly to pressure, who was hesitant about lynching. You don't get any of that information voting for someone who hasn't even shown up.



That's basically what I said. Why did you feel the need to make this comment?
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:55 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 255, MattP wrote:
In post 138, MattP wrote:
In post 137, Garmr wrote:How could it be helpful what did you expect as a answer?

It still doesn't change the fact your pushing that the question to harmless. Your just doing it in a different way. Post 136 indicates that. It wasn't your question that took us out of rvs btw it was me who did it. Who decided to push you for it. So doing that to try and justify the logic is extremely bad especially because your plan was obviously not "make myself look bad to move out of rvs".

You're not even directly responding to what I'm saying. I never said I brought us out of RVS, I said that asking someone a question about a possible non-RVS
could
bring the game out of RVS. I've brought games out of RVS, by engaging people, it's not earth-shattering logic.

His vote could have been based on him not liking Aero's reaction, and there could have been shitty or reasonable logic behind it, or it could have been a meaningless entirely RVS vote. I was simple asking to engage a player and gauge a response/reaction from that player. My point was that there could be utility to that - at worse it could do nothing. The point was, "what's the harm to engaging people in RVS?" not "look how harmless I'm being!"

I don't care if you brought us out of RVS, congratulations. I'm not at all concerned :roll:

In post 139, MattP wrote:And for the record, yeah, it did nothing. His response of "why not" made it clear it was a random vote and I didn't continue the conversation. If he said, "because he responded in an awkward way" or something to that effect then I would have continued that discussion.

In post 141, MattP wrote:And if you think people don't over-rationalize votes like that in early-game, or try to rationalize votes like that in early-game, you're wrong, it happens all the time.

In post 143, MattP wrote:Especially newbs. If someone like Reckoner or kanye made that vote I wouldn't have asked why. The player that made the vote joined the forum in 2015, my threshold for assuming the worst of newbs in lower than that for experienced players.

pedit: if you're on firefox, that's what's wrong. Idk why.


Garmr, this didn't deserve a response?

No
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:03 pm

Post by MattP »

In post 258, Garmr wrote:No

Ok :]
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:05 pm

Post by Mathilda »

In post 230, MattP wrote:
In post 228, MattP wrote:
In post 227, Mathilda wrote:
In post 152, MattP wrote:Well you can trust me, I'm a doctor


OK you have to know that everyone's going to notice this comment. It's too obvious for a soft claim or bread crumb and if you're townie then why would you say such a thing? Especially if you were a doctor. This is suspicious.

My title is "Dr. Feelgood" and my avatar is a doctor. If you're setting up a bullshit vote on me spare me with the weird justifications :]

Also if you really thought this why would you even bring attention to it? You just brought attention to what you believed was a soft claim


I said:

"It's too obvious for a soft claim or bread crumb and if you're townie then why would you say such a thing? Especially if you were a doctor. This is suspicious."
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:41 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 235, Dierfire wrote:The vote on Mathilda is fine, but if the point was to get a better read on Mathilda, then why remove it before Mathilda returns?


because he found something actually scummy? :/

Actually I'm accusing you for active lurking. your posts has no real content but some silly accusations , some stupid questions , easy votes and some fluff.

oh as I'm catching up I can see others pointed that as well :|

@Dweele why you think Direfire is town again?

@Mattp I don't think I can see Gamr post as role fishing. I suspected that myself too. Some people say those stuff for later claims. Although I have more scummy cases to follow atm but your reaction to that wagon wasn't genuine.

@Radja
Radja wrote:
About the miller claim, what I mean is that it's not unlikely it will sort itself out. Whether you are lying or not, there are PR's in this game, and it is possible for one of them to out you if you are lying. So you get to live through day 1, at least. I'll deal with your claim if it becomes a problem(which would be right before LYLO, most likely)


your not serious are you?! If his miller claim is true then our investigator rule must be a cop or the miller thing is meaningless. This setup speculation is SO DAMN WRONG.

But as I said before I'm agreed with your second part about claimed Miller need to be lynched before Lylo. there is no way I'm going to accept the gambit of having a cop guilty result in lylo just because he claimed Miller.

and have you anything regarding to answer my ? or you just wanna keep ignoring it?
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:12 am

Post by Garmr »

@Frozen angel and anyone else looking at matt as scum

-Mattp is scum :evil: and I'm glad how you picked up on matts role drop wifom and got a similar thought process than mine. All the things he quoted in 255. His trying to say he was trying to bring us out of rvs with his question.

-But lets look at the fact scum want to look like they are doing something and that's what does matt achieve with that nothing. Through the point is weaker what he is ignoring is initial response. He focus's on the the why question which I admitted and said time again was a weaker part of my case as I thought his initial response was scummy and he hasn't brought a satisfactory answer to the table to answer that.

-He tried changing what he said and even with the changed explanation it still lead to the same result of him worrying about he is perceived instead of trying to add value to hunting scum.

-It's also possible that mattp is on the scum team and intentionally did that drop to try and find out if there is any dr now I think about it. There is plenty of scum motive to do that and no town motive.


Also look at how fast the wagon assembled then disassembled there was likely scum on the wagon and I think it was a early bus and saw the opportunity to jump off. It's not the first time someones been caught in rvs. Also running up someone early fast is a great way to diffuse the wagon as someone is always guaranteed to rush to defend against it.

there are a couple of other things I find scummy but I want to see if other players picked up on it

@matt p

actually changed my mind about not responding to that. In post 143 you say that if it was a more experienced player you wouldn't bother asking but earlier you were trying to make the case it doesn't hurt and can only help us get out of rvs. If it never hurts to ask why be selective about who you ask it kinda contradicts your reasoning a little.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:14 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

Wait, what? Did MattP crumb a role?
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:58 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

@FA I think that dier is actively trying to solve the game
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:02 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 264, Dwlee99 wrote:@FA I think that dier is actively trying to solve the game


that's an interesting view ... How exactly?
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:08 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

Their questions, fa.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:09 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

What about his questions help the town. talk to me about it.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:14 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

Their questions help them figure out what is going on. Like in they are trying to understand my read on radja and I like the pressure on ABR in .
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:38 am

Post by Lowell »

Now I'm here. Prepare to be dazzled. My catch-up read.

10- Dwlee jumps on the Aero wagon [+, I like this, bold]
15- Garmr calls out Matt [+, I thought the same thing]
Matt wagon takes off
47- Aero calls Matt awkward [+, yep]
51- Frozen asks Matt questions [-, more "I'm helpful, guys" than helpful]
53- Aero metaclaims Frozen as town [-]
57- iraon equivocal as hell about Matt [-, looks like "white knighting" an imperiled player]
61- Taly claims miller [+, unlikely fake, as it came without pressure]
77- Dwlee stands by Matt (L-2) wagon [+]
88- AI shows up to question miller claim
110- iraon suggests null read on Taly's miller claim
111- Frozen points out claimed millers are dangerous at LYLO [+, true, hadn't thought about that]
115- Taly's postwall [+, tl;dr but happy for participation]
122- ABR suspicious of miller claim [+, disagree, but sensible]
123- iraon brings up "nuance" of early wagons [-, very meta, very pointless, still casting doubt on wagon without disputing it, a la 57]
130- Dier disagrees with Matt wagon, calls Aero town as well [+, agree with most of this]
161- iraon posts about avatars, then leaves Mattwagon to "prove" he's not going for an easy lynch [-, FALSE FLAG! iraon only too happy to jump off wagon]
163- iraon critisizes Radja's vote [-, doth protest too much]
167- iraon openly can't explain his unvote [-]
186- Aero calls out dier for buddying in 133 [+, I like players who attack ppl who buddy them]
189- Radja wagon reaches L-2
198- AI jumps off radja-wagon [+, somewhat courageous, acutally]
203- Lowell kills it
221- Mathilda questions naked vote, offers nothing [-]

Some thoughts.

Iraon's treatment of the mattwagon is classic wagon-aversion. Despite being on the matt wagon from the beginning (before it was dangerous), iraon several times subtly tries to derail it ("well, maybe it is the drugs, idk"... "there's 'nuance', *shrugs shoulders*") without unvoting. Then, when (thank heavens!) someone gives him the excuse to jump by accusing him of going for an easy lynch, he jumps (161)! Haha, showed you guys, I didn't settle for an easy lynch-- but OMG you guys don't worry I still think matt may be scum, btw!

If I had to guess, and using the common parlance, I'd say iraon is "white knighting" matt (as scum), but it could also be that he's trying to derail a wagon on his teammate. Either way, there's no pro-town reason why someone on the leading wagon would be so squishy about leaving it, if he thought it was the right thing to do.

As mentioned earlier, I'm inclined to trust Taly's claim. ABR's purported history and WIFOM notwithstanding, I find it unlikely he'd come out with that claim (in his first post) if he were scum. I've also got townreads on Aero, Dier, and Dwlee. Also an
fos Frozen
. Largely gut here, but in general the case is: asking questions is helpful, until it isn't anymore, and Frozen may be assuming more a "leadership" role than a "being helpful" role.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:04 am

Post by AlwaysInnocent »

Lowell's last post is quite convincing. I am going to place Lowell at fence-town for now.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:06 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 269, Lowell wrote:lso an fos Frozen. Largely gut here, but in general the case is: asking questions is helpful, until it isn't anymore, and Frozen may be assuming more a "leadership" role than a "being helpful" role.


ha?!! I asked people to follow me?! :/ I'm asking questions to get a read on people.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:24 am

Post by Dwlee99 »

So what do you think about dier, frozen? You seemed to find my town read weird?
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:28 am

Post by Frozen Angel »

In post 261, Frozen Angel wrote:Actually I'm accusing you for active lurking. your posts has no real content but some silly accusations , some stupid questions , easy votes and some fluff.

oh as I'm catching up I can see others pointed that as well


^ this.

I'm still wondering why your town reading him for those posts.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:29 am

Post by Taly »

In post 224, MattP wrote:
In post 221, Mathilda wrote:
In post 215, MattP wrote:VOTE: Dierfire


I'm surprised to see a naked vote on page 9 when the thread has clearly progressed from RVS.

I guess you've never played mafia

Cool first contribution to the thread btw


This response does not look harmless. ._.

In post 226, MattP wrote:
In post 222, Taly wrote:Wait, what is this vote for? Specifically why now - when Dier hasn't responded to the current votes - and not before?

Why wouldn't I add pressure to a wagon prior to diers response?


1)
Stating this kind of reason partially defeats the purpose of pressuring a wagon.
2)
If it is for pressure, and dier has responded - do you believe he's scum?
3)
I'm not a mind reader.

In post 235, Dierfire wrote:Actually I don't think that this needs many words.

UNVOTE: AlwaysInnocent
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

The vote on Mathilda is fine, but if the point was to get a better read on Mathilda, then why remove it before Mathilda returns?

In post 239, Dierfire wrote:Ha ha, that's why I can't use tabs any more.
Anyway, fine, let's not argue about that.
Let's instead discuss your point that I am not contributing original thoughts.
I thought that my vote on AlwaysInnocent was fairly novel, and I don't recall anyone else pointing out the discrepancies with Frozen's timestamps as I did in and . I also think that my most recent vote on ABR is relatively new and I would like to know what you think of my reasoning.


I don't really see your reasoning on ABR? You didn't really say it...

In post 240, Dwlee99 wrote:I am liking Aero and Dier for town atm. Taly is leaning town, too.


Cool that you have townreads... Any scum?

In post 256, Radja wrote:
In post 222, Taly wrote:
Can you explain your Garmr townread?

Also, you said that my miller claim would be dealt with. Why not now, and when is later?


Garmr was the one who originally pushed MattP for his question in RVS. He posted what I was thinking before I got the chance to make a post about it myself. That's usually something that gives me an immediate townread on someone. The pushing of MattP was also the end of RVS, which moved the game forward.

About the miller claim, what I mean is that it's not unlikely it will sort itself out. Whether you are lying or not, there are PR's in this game, and it is possible for one of them to out you if you are lying. So you get to live through day 1, at least. I'll deal with your claim if it becomes a problem(which would be right before LYLO, most likely)


OK, I'm not going dive into this setup spec shit partially because I don't know the full set-up (Don't play many closed games). But unless there's a role-cop, then most any investigate role we could have would be incriminating me and that defeats the very purpose of my claim of not wasting and fucking with the town..... :igmeou:

In terms of me not making it to lylo, all I can say is that I am a miller, and I don't expect this will keep me alive in this game - however, I'm not going to stand around and let people wrongfully accuse me of what simply isn't true.

I'm understanding your read formation right now, my scumread on you is slowly dying.

In post 259, MattP wrote:
In post 258, Garmr wrote:No

Ok :]


Moving Matt on less likely town now.

Why would you prompt someone to answer something and then drop it when they refuse?

I'm starting to see this 'downplaying' that Garmr talks about...

>>>


Not sold on Dwlee or Dier town but I can see it.

Lowell, Aero, and FA are town in my eyes. Specifically because looks very much like a town thought process. I can also understand the FA suspicion because in my last game nobody ever suspected her despite her being town. So pressure would be nice, even if I agree with her.

Lowell, what are your thoughts on Garmr?
"Taly is going to be a hot mess all game and I am entertained" ~ Gammagooey
"The human race is bad at reading Taly." ~the worst
"Taly I knew your slot was scum and I still struggled to find arguments to SR your play lol" ~Infinity 324
"Taly wins for the most fence-sitty reads in a game ever" ~Battle Mage

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