Mini 1748: ClownTardis Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Rob14]

So Persi/RC/Aero is a town read for you now then Rob?

What???????????????????????

No, they're not. Davsto and Pers/RC/Aero are both independently competing to be my strongest scumread

to the point I'm beginning to doubt my meta tell, especially after Adaptive's comments yesterday.

But dav and persi cant be scum together according to you.

I bolded the part in the post you quoted specifically addressing this.

[Rob14]

Yea, I checked Cheetory to see if he was a serial killer, and the answer is no.

Why choose Cheetory?

[Rob14]

On a first read, by the way, Aero's catch-up is significantly better than his predecessors.

[Rift Adrift]

VC 2.4

Rob13

(2): Davsto, KuroiXHF

Adaptive Heap

(2): Not_Mafia, Soren

Davsto

(1): Adaptive Heap

Aeronaut

(1): Rob13

Not Voting

(5): Plottin Kittehs, BROseidon, Aristophanes, Aeronaut, Cheetory4

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: January 22, Noon US Eastern Time
Countdown: (expired on 2016-01-22 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

[Plottin Kittehs]

Kuroi, do you know who I am? What's your best guess for why I write a --P at the end of my posts?

--P

[Adaptive Heap]

VOTE: Adaptive Heap

I want to lynch either adpative heap or kuroi today.

VOTE: Adaptive Heap

Best two reasons given for voting town, ever.

@Not_Mafia

, I stumbled across a game (Open 557: Deck of Stacks) where you replaced me as town a while back when I was looking for something else.

I can't figure out how to link an ISO without breaking the URL, and since there are only a dozen or so posts, here they are.
Your posting there was sparse, but it was helpful. Why aren't you scumhunting or reading this game?

Spoiler:

Egopost. Will start reading in an hour or so. According to #858 beast has a guilty on me, looking at the set up this is not possible.

Probably already been addressed but by not possible I mean it isn't even possible for him to have a pseudo guilty on me where we could both be town

Read up to page 6, Seeing Beast/Saki hydra/? currently. tn would be occupying the ? slot if I hadn't seen the flips in the OP

@Crash Text Dummie

TN has been town reading Katen all day long. He tried to hammer without a claim. If that's not a scum claim, I don't know what is. It's survivalistic to the max.

I've seen this weird bit of hammer etiquette come up with increasing frequency lately, from players both old and new, and I have a couple of questions about it, namely:

1. Who came up with it?
2. What's the purpose of it?
3. Can we please stop doing it?

The rules of conduct when it came to claiming under duress used to be very straight forward: If you were put at L-1, you were expected to claim. If your very next post didn't contain a full claim, you were lynched. Simple, effective. Things got only slightly more complicated when people decided that refusing to claim certain roles (VT, doc) is strategically viable. Most of the time, you were hammered anyway.

This "intent to hammer" business adds an additional step to the proceedings that, as far as I can tell, serves no other purpose than to give scum more time to come up with a fake claim. As much as we all hate to do it, claiming truthfully as town is one of the simplest things to do in a game of mafia and takes no time at all. On the other hand, coming up with a compelling fake claim is one of the hardest and nerve-wracking exercises for scum. Giving them a grace period between L-1 and someone claiming intent to hammer affords them the time to put more thought into it, discuss it in the scum QT, etc: L-1 -> start thinking about fake claim, "intent to hammer" -> place fake claim.

Refusal to claim used to be a decent scum tell. It's strictly more beneficial for scum not to claim than it is for town because it eliminates the risk of being contradicted. Failure to acknowledge that you are at L-1 used to be a

very

strong scum tell. The current situation is confusing and a hindrance to scumhunting. People who believe in announcing intent accuse those who don't of premature hammers and claims. Those who don't believe in announcing intent accuse those who do of refusing to claim and failing to acknowledge that they're at L-1. Since this is apparently a matter of two different believe systems, neither camp is wrong and neither camp is correct and actual scum manages to fall through the cracks.

Could someone please give me a compelling reason why announcing intent to hammer instead of just hammering when someone fails to claim is beneficial for town? Or better yet, could we just stop doing it?

Reconcile these please

Yeah, you're right, never mind CTD

I'm caught up (I skimmed a lot of the walls admittedly).

Still thinking Beast/Katengecchi/?

I'll look at Beast in isolation for the last person but I don't think it's SeeEmpty as I don't think they've been cross bussing all game.

Thinking katengecchi for generic scumminess day 1 and lurking and being WIFOM'd out of suspicion day 2. Plus how Beast has continually pushed the counter wagons to Kat. And Kat's flip flop on my slot despite believing my predecessor townslipped and with beast being the optimal lynch set up wise.

I can go through and flesh out a case on beast if people need me to but it looks like he's the lynch anyway and I'd rather focus on looking at associative stuff

And Kat's flip flop on my slot despite believing my predecessor townslipped and with beast being the optimal lynch set up wise.

You seem to have missed the part where I was townreading both your slot AND beast - naturally, when the 1v1 happened one of my reads had to be wrong, and, in the end, my townread on beast was greater than yours

-Koromo

There's a difference between townreading someone and believing they townslipped. And if if you were townreading us both, why are you advocating the lynch that can lose us the game in the night?

Justin explained the situation in post #819. For outcome:

1. Lynch scum Talah - best: 4T:1S, worst 3T:2S.
2. Mislynch Talah - best: 3T:2S, worst 3T:3S.
3. Mislynch Beast - 3T:2S.
4. Lynch scum Beast - best: 4T:1S, worst 3T:2S.

So, a mislynch Talah will most probably lose the game for us, while a mislynch Beast is at worst a MYLO.

Not_Mafia's catchup is a scum catchup. I don't get the impression he was actually thinking critically about anything and the way he's

conveniently scumreading the leading wagon,

and not making a case in favor of "it looks like he'll be lynched anyway" as opposed to explaining his read, is very scum motivated.

The leading wagon is faking a guilty on me, so how could he be anything but conf. scum in my eyes?

Vig Katen

VOTE: Seeempty

Beast flipping Traitor makes think him over the Katen slot. Still wary of it though, will ISO JP later

Yeah I've been scum with Justin and I see the same kind of distancing early on in his ISO he did with me

Prodded. I'll answer all this later when I'm not half asleep

VOTE: Muffin

Okay, I do think scum is within Seeempty/muffin with the way Justin tried to push through the Katen lynch.

BE's iso is terrible and this whole "Why won't you self vote" when Seeempty doesn't have confirmation that Muffin is people's 2nd choice just feels like theatre

-t

[Plottin Kittehs]

@Cheet I saw your questions for Mala and have passed them onto her.

Looking back over our notes, she had said that her early scumread on rob was mostly gut whereas her read on kuroi seemed to be easier to put into words. we also felt wagonning him wouldn't hurt him and would more likely produce an alignment indicative response because of newness, though i don't think a wagon really built up against him. at that stage in the game i hadn't liked anything i'd seen from him but it was early enough that i needed to see more. at the time it bothered me that rob was writing him off as newtown but later on I was townreading rob when i was caught up last which was admittedly a while ago.

--P

[Rob14]

This game feels stalled to me, and I think it's because we need a flip that actually makes a difference. We've so far had a flip on someone that had become obvious town and a flip on someone that was not notable in any way, really. Whether it's the Pers slot, Davsto, or me, the game needs an actual lynch before we can move on and start making wagon analyses, relational tells, etc.

Like, I feel like we're on the 19th calendar day of Day 1 or something.

[Aristophanes]

This game feels stalled to me, and I think it's because we need a flip that actually makes a difference. We've so far had a flip on someone that had become obvious town and a flip on someone that was not notable in any way, really. Whether it's the Pers slot, Davsto, or me, the game needs an actual lynch before we can move on and start making wagon analyses, relational tells, etc.

Like, I feel like we're on the 19th calendar day of Day 1 or something.

In that case,
VOTE: Davsto
For avoiding the D1 lynch like that.

Davsto, where is your head at currently?
Who is town/scum?

Gimme a case on someone so I know you're actually scumhunting and not just saying you're scumhunting in place of scumhunting.

[Aeronaut]

Yea, I checked Cheetory to see if he was a serial killer, and the answer is no.

Why choose Cheetory?

Because I hadn't read a lot of the game yet, and I figured since Cheetory is one of the few I know pretty well on this playerlist, I could clear him and then we would be able to work together from there. If he was scum, well then I found scum, hurray!

Although, that's kind of flawed logic I guess looking back, because Cheets could still be on a scum team. We just know he's not a serial killer. Soooooo.... that information might come in handy later, I guess.

[Rob14]

Is there a reason why you didn't do any of your read through at night before selecting your night action?

[Aeronaut]

Is there a reason why you didn't do any of your read through at night before selecting your night action?

Well, I also skimmed, to make sure Cheetory had't been confirmed town or anything. Who would you have checked?

[BROseidon]

Gonna catch up on this today. I promise!

[Soren]

So why did scum kill Shiro over Rob, who claimed jailkeeper.

[Rob14]

Is there a reason why you didn't do any of your read through at night before selecting your night action?

Well, I also skimmed, to make sure Cheetory had't been confirmed town or anything. Who would you have checked?

Given the current game state, if I were an FBI Agent, I'd have checked you. Doesn't really matter who you checked; I'm just trying to gauge the why.

[Rob14]

So why did scum kill Shiro over Rob, who claimed jailkeeper.

For one, exactly what you just did. For two, potential doc protection. For three, jailkeeper is not that powerful in a role madness game with strong town. It will block town PRs more often than not. For four, I'm an easy lynch, probably. No reason to kill someone who they can push and get killed.

By the way, question to all players: should I be claiming my night action target? I don't see any drawback, but I've also never been in the position of a claimed roleblocker/doc before, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.

[BROseidon]

Guys this game is mindnumbingly stupid.

[BROseidon]

I feel dumber reading it.

[BROseidon]

There's no chance of me getting to meta someone before my V/LA officially starts, but to AH, BRO, or Kittehs: What is Dav generally like as town? Does he generally make decent cases or does he trend more toward the VI side of things?

His cases are either really forced or he's a VI. If he's not a VI, he's probably scum. I admit I'm completely unfamiliar with Davsto outside this game, though, so I can't differentiate between the two.

No idea - I've never played with him.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: Davsto this is still the best vote, imo.

Also, RC was pretty fucking town. Even if he does play like a psycho.

[BROseidon]

If anyone wants to touch inside of {Kittehs, Aero, Cheet, Ari}, imma kick their ass.

[Aeronaut]

Why is cheetory town to you?

[Rob14]

VOTE: Davsto to consolidate. I need info, and either Aero or Dav is fine in my book.

[Rift Adrift]

Bow ties

[Rift Adrift]

are cool