Blitz 17: Netherspite's Blitz SORM II [Game over]

[AxleGreaser]

Oh jeez what will ranger do without those sweet rvs votes?

easy?

Please note that the first game day is LYNCHLESS. All votes will be ignored during Day 1.

Its only the mod that will ignore the votes.

VOTE: wisdom
No actually it seems wiser to not do that.
UNVOTE: wisdom

---

...

---

lets have a band wagon instead.

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent (2)

[AxleGreaser]

This is essentially n0. If we're massclaiming it should probs wait.

That would be a yes.

VOTE: sensei

I was like ranger skeptical. Also I'm town power. I should have mentioned this game is breakable. Ika will say the same thing.

So we shouldn't protect our roles, but massclaim?

Basically. Last game there was push back so we just softed and filled in the blanks via flips. Of course we did catch several scum early.

Did you catch them by the mass claim itself or by reading their reaction to it?
I saw that the town lynched bunch (2/3) neutral anti town roles but, while I didn't read the game thoroughly, I didn't quite see how the mass claim itself directly and causally lead to that outcome.

In this game, there is one less well defined role

One town slot will be excluded (Town Investigative/Protective).

so there is a lower potential for alignment indicative stuff from slot category claims.

and other stuff...

[AxleGreaser]

In this game, there is one less well defined role

One town slot will be excluded (Town Investigative/Protective).

so there is a lower potential for alignment indicative stuff from slot category claims.

and other stuff...

correction two less well defined roles

Town Government

Town Investigative

Town Protective

/

Town Investigative or Protective

Town Investigative or Protective

Town Killing or Power

Town Killing or Power

Town Random
Town Random
Town Random

...

[AxleGreaser]

Oh jeez what will ranger do without those sweet rvs votes?

Aint no rule says that I can't RVS-read!

@Ranger
before you made that post..
Had you seen any of my other games?

[AxleGreaser]

@axle I would respond but I am no good at setup spec so you'll have to wait for ika.

I am bad at it too. But that is not setup spec the setup is defined.

What probabilistic alignment information can be inferred from what kind of mass claim, is math.
What reads you get from the process is just mafia.

What town has to give up in terms of providing other people information who don't currently have it is something else.
There exist non town roles that would benefit from some insight into the probable/possible town structure.

[AxleGreaser]

What town has to give up in terms of providing other people information who don't currently have it is something else.
There exist non town roles that would benefit from some insight into the probable/possible town structure.

Curious as to what the Ika hydra says regarding claiming in this instance, as I know he has extensive knowledge of these game types.

Ika I don't have extensive experience, but if you disagree with what I have been saying wave your arms around, in some vague way, and I will see if I can read between
the lines, there ought be no need to be overly explicit.

[AxleGreaser]

if we had lynch day 1 i would push for mass claim.

since it isnt we dont claim tll day 2

I dont see any hand waving that would explain why its beneficial even on D2.
There are 5 vaguely defined town slots and then 9 other people who will either probably fake claim or have been randomed into the slots.
Rather a lot of combinations of numbers of each type of slot is reasonably possible by chance.
It, the actual claims, may get you info that is slightly better than random lynching.

But my math says not much.

and there exist downsides. Consigliere is a mafia role because the information mass claim gives away is worth something.
and ...

[AxleGreaser]

here let me put it in experince

i know what im fucking doing

I don't know what your doing.

ive played this 3 times here

This is different to last time.

but cool you know what your doing.

[AxleGreaser]

call it conf bias, but is this Axle trying to set up for a self-meta defense?

Ok it is conf bias.

Have i ever done one before.
Would it be plausible (as any alignment) I might even try this time?

Are there any other possible reasons i might want to know that?

Did you try and find out?

[AxleGreaser]

This is different to last time.

not even close to being diffrent

As i have previously defined how it is different and you have previously defined yourself as the absolute authority on the game setup.
I guess we have nothing to discuss then.

[AxleGreaser]

I shared what I thought the reason was and I'm going to keep believing it until I see an alternative.

Yep find a scum read and hang onto to it for dear life.

What was the reason you asked that question?

I may or may not in the end get use out of the question. That will depend on eventually finding out what the answer to 24 is and it making some sense to me.
It was however something I wanted to get straight.

Various people do as town interpret my early play differently and a major difference is whether they have seen me play before.
I wanted to tie down whether whatever read or categorization Ranger made of me is based on comparing me with general normal play, or against knowledge of how I personally play.

[AxleGreaser]

A vote with an unvote in the same post always comes across as odd to me. Is this typical for you?

not really typical per se.
but my first posts are thing.
and there was this one time
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7184892 Where i doubled down and voted and unvoted twice.

but it would be truer to say "my first posts are thing."
this one I would rank as comparatively mild.
There is usually something going on that eventually may become apparent but as I said this time is comparatively(very) mild.
I have not on this occasion gone and read 5 or more games of background on players while waiting pre-game,
I just went with what I have seen and vaguely remember.

[AxleGreaser]

This day is more beneficial to scum than to town, in my honest opinion, so let's be careful about what we say.

This reads town motivated.

Given the seeming newness of the slot to the game in general. I agree. Other people with more experience making the same level of observation could be anything.

You have, Axle Dollars.

Wouldn't worry about how you spend them my vague memory of your play style means you'll likely get more.

[AxleGreaser]

Why are you going against the flow on massclaim?

because I thought about it and didn't see it as being necessarily a good idea.
Ika assures me he has lots of experience in similar games and I believe him. I dont know what his alignment is.
I expect that even with lots of experience if hes not town he is still restricted in how not quite optimal a plan he could lay down.
Many things change whats best though. Whats best on one forum with one set of play styles might actually be suboptimal elsewhere,
I live in a complex and subtle world.

If there are things I don't know, and mass claim is a good idea and/or it is the flow, I am a reed I will not break, I will bend with the flow.

[AxleGreaser]

Why are you going against the flow on massclaim?

Do you personally claim of your own knowledge that massclaim is the right strategy in this setup for tomorrow?

Which kind of massclaim?
<just the catgeory Government ....
or the actual roles.
or categories with decision on whether to claim the role initially left up to the claimer.
+
suggestions on method (pop corn or what?)

or even a decide later, which kind of mass claim.
>

There is kind of so much unstated, there is not actually a well defined flow to row against.

So far there is just the vibe(video)

<

note the specifically not asking you for why you think that at this point in time.

>
Indeed you may feel free to regard the whole set of questions as rhetorical at this point, unless of course you want to
run in circles yelling "mass claim"
or kill the pig(video)

or if sufficient people with skill(perceived) and town cred(to me) say do it. Then Geronimo.
Indeed I have hammered about enough stake in its heart, if the idea gets up from here, I will likely just go with the flow.

[AxleGreaser]

i know what im fucking doing

What? This seems unusually hostile. If you can't deal with ika, you can talk to me then.

What?
That wasn't fucking hostile.

There is nothing to discuss, Ika has defined himself as an expert based on his experience 79. He directly contradicted things I said without explanation presumably appealing to his own authority 85.
There is nothing to discuss. If you(SW) want communication not shut down i suggest you talk to your other head(IKA). He claimed to know what he was fucking doing when he did it.

I can talk to Ika too, the question is whether Ika will talk to me, or just continue to tell me.
My ego can live with being told but it leaves nothing to discuss. I can only imagine that was the intention.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle do you have any reads? I'm seeing a lot of talk about massclaiming and not a lot of stances.

My reads list is unusually biased towards ???. I wanted people to regard the pseudo votes as real just not mod counted. My intention was to just restate wherever my vote was upto when tomorrow starts. Hence while the danger is not immediate, for me there is an RVS wagon on AI. Other people dont want to play.

Lots of what feels scummy may be, just people reacting tot he lack of lynch today. I have played in games with night talk for town, which this kind of is, (a period of time where talk and reads only helps those with night powers get better actions)(its also different even tot hat.) In my experience people play "scummy" during night talk. In a novel social setting where I havent seen it before that is likely also to blind side me.

So one expectation I have is that some people who look scummy to me, due to lack of figuring the game out, wont tomorrow.

That said.
FA has looked weird since about 76. But see the above.
{ Category 1. }
AnxietyAttack seems odd in a couple of ways, but again I want to wait until tomorrow as I have alternate explanations. I Agree with you about 88
Errantparabola, I need to check how his conversation starters work.. 74 Claiming he scum reads me for things he makes up that I might do, (not things I have done) also seems a little odd (but we were pretty much RVSing and reaching at the time).
Ranger is odd, but probably will change to Ok tomorrow. (Apparently 209 I need to find a ranger game too)(253 is for instance moving forwards for me)
Wisdom, the point Persivul made in 207 seems to have merit.

{Category 2}
rkvothe feels fine.
Yakko feesl fine.
I dont find random midget scummish.. just thin on the ground.)

{category 3}
Others.

Also >not a lot of stances.< Where stances is brief statements like the above is not what I usually do.

[AxleGreaser]

Addendum. AA turned a corner, just recently.

[AxleGreaser]

you have 0 explimations. when you act like you are right and others are wong like you are now it does nothing but pises us off.

axel fuck off already you dont know shit about this setup like i do

Really,
did anything specific I did give you the impression that i thought I did? (think i knew shot about this setup like you do.)

We could talk about for instance my impression of 88,
I am pretty sure I saw your interpeation of events (What people did actually do) (especially when we consider the capability of the people that did them)
at that time was not accurate

and as that what i was just talking about and that has nothing to do with your expertise and experience in this setup.
Then perceived slights, and your "fuck off already you dont know shit about this setup like i do" is out of place.

ika. calm down. keep texting me, relax

...

[AxleGreaser]

sigh.... sorry its just how you go about most games axel jsut rubs me the wrong way cus how you go about any game i have seen you in acts on an athorative place where what you say is law and anoyne who disagress is immitetly wrong

Try actually talking to me and challenging me on anything I say, and justifying your position, when you happen to know you are right....
and given your experience int his game that ought be now.

I actually learn quite well...
I've for instance been reading between the lines, of what other people posted and waved their arms,

Spoiler: meh

>as i invited you too : WITH all due deference 53...(I might add) and if that wasnt enough bowing and scraping for you ... fuck off.<

and i currently see more value in mass claims than I did.

Taking stances.... is what the games about.
Seeing how people react, and whether their stance is made up shit or not is too.
You appear to have made a case that me playing the game at all pisses you off so it seems you will be rubbed the wrong way every time i play. I am noticing that more here than before.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, I shared what I thought the most likely reason for your wanting Ranger to look up your games.
You have not shared an alternative (if you have, please point me to it).
As a result, I have no reason to stop believing what I think is the most likely.

and thats fine, with no more evidence you do have to hang onto your best interpretation of events.
Most likely is a new qualifier that wasnt IIRC expressed earlier.

95 Explained as clearly as i intend to at this time, why I wanted to know. As that line of inquiry is ongoing.

[AxleGreaser]

I am at 19, got bored reading, but will press on and be up to date soon.

To move things along.
Claim Town Protective:

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: wisdom
VOTE: 3dice

VOTE: no lynch

VOTE: anoris

whats this .... I can't understand Ika!

@IKA (you voted Not lynch, because (or something like that) you wanted us to notice this)

You cannot jail if there was a lynch at the Day phase.

First:
yes = Vote Axle / Vote AA / Vote3Dice in that order.
No = Vote Axle / Vote 3Dice in that order.

Second:
If you want me to crawl through your posts, and the setup, looking for more stuff related to that
yes = Vote Axle / Vote FA / Vote Axle / Vote3Dice in that order.
No = Vote Axle /Vote FA / Vote 3Dice in that order.

Third if at some time something fucks up and we have miscommunicated VoteAxle VoteAxle VoteAxle Vote 3Dice.

@Thread. Note the systematic replies that don overlap. Vote Axle punctuates and defines the replies as to me.

@Thread In order to be able to let AA vote anyone as part of their play we need to stay off putting anyone at L-1 unless we want them lynched immediately.

[AxleGreaser]

Truly random? How is this done on this site?

Exact setup will be generated using random.org.

and its not bastard.

[AxleGreaser]

Mod:

Can a blackmailed player vote in the gamethread, or can they not post at all?[/b]

Blackmailed player can vote in the game thread, however crumbing any significant information with the votes is forbidden.

Ok I am on pause.... (PEDit: and got my reply no I can't weedle info out of Ika.)
Not posting things to IKA until i get a clarification, it felt a little icky.

@Wisdom.

You're confirmed town(to me). You will have to do instead. The english below is a little borked as I reworked it from something else.

Regarding IKA things we know.

IKA
First:
Assertion: As per FA 492: and Ikas 501 Ika wants us to no lynch. And thus not lynch the confirmed cultist.
My first task that I choose is to work out is why.


Second:
Regarding The cultist.
Assertion: pretty much... Everybodies win con except a cultist needs the cultist dead.

Options

#1 Despite what Ika wants we lynch the cultist.

#2 Wisodm Kills Cultist:
If wisdom is going to kill the Cultist tonight... Then Scum will not kill wisdom tonight. 3rd parties will not kill wisdom tonight. Wisdom maybe conf town, but the cultist is an immediate threat as are other active power roles. (A merely conf town Wisdom can wait)

#3 Aternative: Ika kills Cultist.
If we no lynch today, Ika can JK and kill the cultist tonight. Again No one (With killing power) has keeping the cultist alive as a priority so no one will kill Ika in way that stops him killing the cultist.

#4 defined people can kill the cultist and scum and 3rd party wont stop them.

@Mod.

The kill flavors were different but that is not TBMK defined in the game rules/setup but does apparently mirror previous games.

If a Jailor kills the person they jailed. Is it's kill flavor different to the two we have seen.
Do we know if a mafia kidnapper kills his victim is his kill flavor different to a jailers?

(egs lethal injection vs bullet back of head)

[AxleGreaser]

Don't hammer until everyone has claimed categories/deadline is imminent, to all not voting

So the only benefit to nolynch above 3dice lynch is that wisdom might stay alive?

With this statement from the mod, we don't get to mod confirm AA, by the kill flavor.

Jailor's sounds & death description do not differ from Kidnapper's.[/color]

If we no lynch, and Wisdom kills the Cultist, and my argument is true that no other role with killing power can have a reason to stop Wisdom.

Then, we are equivalent to lynch the cultist today

HOWEVER

Ika, who is quite possibly a town jailer, can then

You cannot jail if there was a lynch at the Day phase.

Jail and kill someone. That is an extra potential kill over what happens if we Lynch the cultist.

If we think its likely Ika is a town jailer, instead of a scum kidnapper, then no lynching is beneficial. As in this case town gains a kill /RB)

Spoiler: What if Ika is a scum kidnapper?

Well as ika will be wanting to pretend to be a town jalier, he would not use his kidnap and out himself, if we lynch today

[AxleGreaser]

You should hammer, so I can be in the dead thread.

I am Sorry , I am pretty sure my scheming might even make sure you might even live to morning.
You could try drinking lots of cool aid, I hear that is big in cults.

[AxleGreaser]

Jail and kill someone. That is an extra potential kill over what happens if we Lynch the cultist.

One more option:
We can also lynch someone else.. and have wisdom kill the cultist.

Lynching people gets the info from the days discussion.

[AxleGreaser]

Why would you kill obv town?

I imagine being dead man walking is boring...
So providing you are not trolling too hard, I wont regard you as in coventry.

Who were you suggesting was killing which obv town?

[AxleGreaser]

pedit: ninja
@Erra Ahh, just what I was about to ask. The quote was that the 'joke' there is even more 'pew pew'.

[AxleGreaser]

No. No. No. Way too risky.

explain who while playing to their win con would stop the mason killing the cultist.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, cult cannot recruit mafia. Why wouldn't they kill me and let the cult spread?

We are not nolynching.

You may be right its not good/safe idea.
But scum also dont particularly need the mason dead tonight especially if they know for certain what you will do.
An organised voting block of cult, is a real threat.
That cultist cant convert mafia is pseudo investigative.

I'd be pretty sure mafia will let you kill the cultist, they will have other problems.

[AxleGreaser]

dotting an I (i am not a bus driver)

Spoiler: context

Given that i swam against the mass claim vibe.

+ if anyone in game is a busdriver claim fully 100% right now ...

I will be explicit i am not bus driver.
I think i have damn good reason why if i was bus driver I would claim.
AKA non retractable no excuses claim.

[AxleGreaser]

No. No. No. Way too risky.

explain who while playing to their win con would stop the mason killing the cultist.

1. You can't trust players with different win conditions to play in the town' s favor. That should be obvious.
2. We don't have much time.

Explain while playing

not in towns

favor

but their own

would stop the mason killing the cultist.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP

No. No. No. Way too risky.

explain who while playing to their win con would stop the mason killing the cultist.

1. You can't trust players with different win conditions to play in the town' s favor. That should be obvious.
2. We don't have much time.

Explain

who

while playing

not in towns

favor

but their own

would stop the mason killing the cultist.
and just how that works.

[AxleGreaser]

We simply cannot risk relying on other factions doing what we think they would do.

I understand that you (too) have played this kind of game before.
but in order not take that risk.
town has to use todays lynch to kill someone you really ought be able to tonight.
Playing the game with one less lynch than we could is also a risk.

unless i am missing something.

[AxleGreaser]

It's not a risk lynching someone that we know is anti-town.

yes there is no risk in lynching 3dice that we will be lynching town.

Doing that instead of you killing him, does give us one less town controlled kill.
I dont see any reasonable possibility of how an anti town faction can think stopping you killing him is in their favor.
if someone signed up for the game without for instance knowing what the setup entailed and now is just pissed of and certain they will lose, and they have the possibility of a "fuck you" play, I have known or seen people who might do it out of spite.
but I dont see that going down here.

I don't see a plausible problem with You killing the cult member tonight. I'd see fear and paranoia based reasoning, but not one that makes numerical sense.
It gets especially hard when the reasoning that all factions want you to kill the cultist can be posted in the thread for them to read.

[AxleGreaser]

Assuming I thought this through correctly.

I'm at page 26. FA, I'm bus driver.

If as the plan one tonights actions (an nk for instance) gets routed through someone you busdrive.
Then if the action winds up acting on the correct person, then we have it confirmed that either you and the person whose action was redirected are on the scum team or you are in fact a bus driver.

AKA pretty close to mod confirming you.
congrats.

Bugger,

Witch

can redirect.
Ah well no as close as i thoght but getting there.

Also post script.
yeah Ok we can lynch, 3Dice today. That is if you are worried a

witch

, might like the chaos that redirecting Wisdom would bring.

[AxleGreaser]

Yeah, I would be very surprised if you got NKed Wisdom.
this guarantees us the largest number of non-town deaths, and I'm not convinced aronis is telling the truth.

I think I found hole in my previous argument.
Witch wins if the town loses, they might like the chaos that would ensue, if they redirected Wisdom away from 3 Dice.

[AxleGreaser]

If we do have a mm in-game, writing up what my action will be on thread wouldn't be extremely dangerous?

Thats the risk all targeting power roles take.

[AxleGreaser]

Though if I was Nether and this happened, I would say that blackmailed people can use votes for whatever, and just change the ruling back to normal in the next game I'd be using a Blackmailer in.

But ugh.

Like scum reading people trying to second guess what nether would do based on what you would do is risky.

If the rules were worded as can only vote... then that is what he did.
if scum objected that it nullified their role and the spirit of it.... (as was in the PM they received?)
I can see a mod backing up, and thinking 'least harm' would be to just stop it.
If there was a discrepancy between what the blackmailer PM implied happened and what did... going with what did and allowing the restricted, but information flow none the less to continue would be :\


This also adds to the degree to which I perceive rubberiness to be plausible.

New role

will be added: Mafia Blackmailer with the ability to silence a player for the next day phase, effectively forbidding them from posting in the game thread unless at L-1.

Added more clarifications to the role PMs.

Added clarification about self-targeting and dead players targeting to the Game Rules.

[AxleGreaser]

We can only do that if we can ensure that 3dice dies tonight. Let's don't forget about that.

The thing is, making suboptimal plays isn't necessarily going against win condition. I'd rather we just lynch 3dice today... I guess I just don't want to leave anything up to chance. shrug

There is also the theoretical possibility of a witch who might think anything, as I think they can plausibly win with the cult, and the witch has power that could redirect Wisdom away from 3 Dice.

So I am back to ok with lynching 3dice today.

[AxleGreaser]

but that just means you're a dick.

Only if you believe his claim and shoot him out of spite while wasting a kill you should have used elsewhere if you believe his claim.

[AxleGreaser]

Exactly Axle. You cannot expect people with different win conditions to help you.

I never did, try rereading my posts. Until I found the witch, I could find no role with win con that would help themselves even little by purposefully keeping the cult alive.

It was when I went looking for something to balance what I thought was the 100% mod confirmability of a bus driver that i found it.

[AxleGreaser]

I will work on the actions soon

those 2 need to show up faster

Indeed that they have not and thus stalled the day, is seemingly not helping town much.

I think one of confirm-able the kills (by flavor) should be channeled via the bus driver on at least one night.
That way if the kill winds up in the right place, the bus driver is either witch or a bus driver.
(actually if this happens... people ought think... but >not< talk today)
Other POE will eventually give a confirmed 3rd party count that needs to be 4.

[AxleGreaser]

Ah. I misunderstood. It was the Jester. FA roleblocked me. Damn you.

How did FA role block you?

[AxleGreaser]

Lol Randomidget is Mafia or neutral killing.

Your claiming your action was to try and convert them and you failed?

[AxleGreaser]

No, wait. I misunderstood again. The mod made a mistake.

I tried to shoot someone and nothing happened. Maybe redirected after all?

What notfications did you receive.

[AxleGreaser]

No, wait. I misunderstood again. The mod made a mistake.

I tried to shoot someone and nothing happened. Maybe redirected after all?

What notfications did you receive.

Basically no feedback. The Jester thing was a mistake.

This could mean that my action was redirected, or blocked (roleblocker, or I hit the Godfather or MM).

Bullshit on the role block.

you were roleblocked.

as you are claiming to have hit the MM or godfather...
shouldn't you be saying who you targeted?

[AxleGreaser]

I think I was roleblocked as well?

I've redirected ev
Ery action on Wisdom onto Persivul

Why do you think you were roled blocked?

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP

Bullshit on the role block.
The list of notifcations includes.

you were roleblocked.

[AxleGreaser]

Please answer this.

I think I was roleblocked as well?

I've redirected ev
Ery action on Wisdom onto Persivul

Why do you think you were roled blocked?

Did you receive a role block notification?

[AxleGreaser]

Also, we really need to lynch 3dice

Yeah assuming no towny gets modkilled, I am pretty sure that will happen.

[AxleGreaser]

No, I haven't, that's why I answered what I answered.

Also, redirections can be counted as roleblocks? If it is like that, we got a serial killer and not a mm

As I don't know your alignment,
I like explicit unequivocal answers,

Your bus drive swaps, two players. You swapped Percivul and Wisdom.
Anyone targetting Wisdom, tried killed Percivul, but were thwarted by any protects that happened.

Anyone who targetted Percivul killed wisdom.

if the thread had not gotten suddenly locked..... last night, but that is spilt milk.

[AxleGreaser]

@Percivul.

If percivul, happened to be passing on his way out but have couple of minutes, and turned up,

I would not mind hearing that he confirmed that he was notified that he was Bus driven.

Public notification:

I would then personally abuse the crap out of people that wanted percivul to claim anymore than that before I said so.

[AxleGreaser]

You're not confirmed to be town, though

FYI: If Percivul, confirms he was notified he was busdriven, it will get close to confirming you though.

[AxleGreaser]

Town Government -- Wisdom (Mason Leader)

DEAD

Town Investigative or Protective -- ErrantParabola (Town Bodyguard)

DEAD

Town Investigative or Protective -- rkvothe (Town Busdriver)

(not confirmed)

// Randomidget

(not confirmed)

Town Killing or Power -- Ranger (Town Spy)

DEAD

Town Killing or Power -- Anxiety Attack (Town Jailor)

DEAD

Town Random -- [k/p] AlwaysInnocent (Vigilante)

(not confirmed)

Town Random -- [gov] Sensei

(not confirmed)

Town Random -- [prot] Axle

(not confirmed)

Being this low quantity of town roles, is there any chance we can actually lynch every threat and still be alive? I'm a bit scared about that.

You left out Percivul and Aristophanes, who may yet be town and may yet have useful roles

[AxleGreaser]

I do know that. There's a high chance that he's scum, as well, so I'm not counting on him confirming me at all.

Yeah if he lies he will be 1v1 ing you. And if you got mislynched then he has outed himself as scum.
His alternative is to tell the truth and confirm you and hope to get by some other way.

[AxleGreaser]

But we can't afford lynching town, so I won't be mislynched at all. We can discuss all what we want today, but we gonna end up lynching 3dice, imo.

We gotta make a leap of faith or lose trying.

Um yeah, it will be close unless (Some of the claims on your list are scum.. say AI and random) and then the undeclared roles hold very pleasant surprises.

and yes any 1v1 wont be between you and percivul even if he claims not to be bus driven.

Today, 3 dice will swing. (I promise to try and make that happen for you 3dice.)

[AxleGreaser]

PERSIVUL, I KNOW YOU'RE THERE. COME TALK TO US.

yeah revising what said before. (and i cant work out why i thought that at the time, i think i thought i knew something i didnt.)

id like percivul and Arsitophanes to post

And claim things such were theory role blocked bus driven and start talking about their claim.

@Percivul.

If percivul, happened to be passing on his way out but have couple of minutes, and turned up,

I would not mind hearing that he confirmed that he was notified that he was Bus driven.

Public notification:

I would then personally abuse the crap out of people that wanted percivul to claim anymore than that before I said so.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, what do you think?

yeah i have been hoping he is that kind of Gov for a while... but as its his role.. i decided not to be rude and say something before he does.

he is is the best place to decide when to tell us what his exact role is.
i think we are screwed enough as town that we had better bet the farm on Sensei being town. When your backs against the wall as ours is who dares wins.

There is still some chance we (the recent thread discussions) have the alignments wrong.
I working on something to post. be back soon (tonight my time, its 3am here i am little slow, and need to be methodical)

[AxleGreaser]

Start with claiming your category, at least, then you can read up.

yes do that you are days behind on doing that much, so as town just trutfully claim your category.

[AxleGreaser]

@ARISTOPHANES

Start with claiming your category, at least, then you can read up.

yes do that,

Aris

you are days behind on doing that much, so as town just trutfully claim your category.

---

ebwop the who its too

[AxleGreaser]

I'd prefer not to get him to L-1 because a quickhammer will fuck us if he's town or neutral.

ANY HAMMER will fuck people as we need the cultist dead.
So no I wont YET be playing chicken with the scum team about the cultist....

That would be a last resort....

AKA Look at these for scaryyyyyyyyy (MAD Mutally assured destruction... based plays)

DONT LYNCH 3Dice AGAIN!!!! (Lynch the serial killer/MM.)
Town Shoot the damn cultist we know hes not bullet proof

No I am not advocating that yet, but if we get really desperate....

DONT LYNCH 3Dice AGAIN!!!! (Lynch the serial killer/MM.)
Town refuse Shoot the damn cultist... but I am pretty sure that would push it too far and scum might not shoot him either....
As I said i need to think...

I also have other potential scary plans ... (

Spoiler: LOL

Hint: dont put Axle in corner the Axe is not just for show. Ok maybe thats not funny but at 3:30am it loks funny to me.

[AxleGreaser]

Maybe I'm an idiot, but what are you trying to say?

That we should definitely lynch 3dice and our thoughts last day were stupid or that we should lynch mm/sk and kill 3dice at night?

Its 3am I may be an idiot.
If when we work it all out we are in deep shit because

the MM/Sk is bullet proof and so is the godfather.
The MM and godfather if both are left alive will/could kill two townies tonight.

if instead we lynched the suspected MM/SK and got it right...
and then had a town vig shoot the cultist/3D.

Then mafia only get to try and kill one townie tonight.

Then again as before scum don't really want to stop us killing the cultist.

That IS NOT my current plan, buts it the kind of insanity i will fall back to if town is backed into corner by
percivuls/sensei and Aris eventual posts.

[AxleGreaser]

Town Power

From your role.
Do you have any idea how or why FA died?

[AxleGreaser]

Town Power

From your role.
Do you have any idea how or why FA died?

To avoid leaving anything to chance if your role targeted FA in anyway you had better say so.

[AxleGreaser]

@Axle and your thoughts on what random just said? One of us could totally had been culted, like AI, you or me.

And that AI and I haven't noted that earlier and agreed that 'the game was figured out' give us a nice layer of wifom.

We can always lynch Random and see if AI shoots 3dice to be sure we get a potential neutral killing and cult, just to be sure.

Yep I thought about what he said quite some time ago.

I know I was not culted,
#1 and if someone else was culted we as town are quite probably just screwed so sit back and enjoy that ride.

#2 Random if he was town knew all along as a straight up fact 3D must be lying. How come it took so long to think hey 3d has a reason to lie.

---

Im tired has random midget ever claimed his catgeory. i thought he had but i cant find it.

[AxleGreaser]

Things to know about he scum team.

They have a mafia deception, black mailer. (It is thus not possible that they have a beguiler.)

They have been performing a factional Kill at night.

@MOD

Unless there is something wrong The kidnapper role does not say it can perform the factional kill.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP oops pressed submit by accident.
============================================================

Things to know about he scum team.

They have a mafia deception, black mailer. (It is thus not possible that they have a beguiler.)

They have been performing a factional Kill at night.

---

@MOD

Unless there is something wrong The kidnapper role does not say it can perform the factional kill.

---

We thus know they have a mafiaso or a godfather.

and then one of
Mafia Consort (role block, but none has claimed one)

Mafia Consigliere (investigator)
Mafia Agent (tracker)

Mafia Kidnapper (only jails on a no lynch)

based on lack of observed effects the two most likely are underlined.

We, desperately need an explanation for how FA died to a hail of bullets.

[AxleGreaser]

Then what happenned to AI's shot? That could mean:

Forget that ... how did FA get killed at all.

[AxleGreaser]

persivul

it is very MUCh time for you to post now.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: persivul
VOTE: 3dice

yeah bullshit.

[AxleGreaser]

@Randomidget

I haven't seen it that way, but it makes an awful lot of sense. Then, who do you think he targetted?

It's entirely probable that he tried to cult you and failed, though, let's don't discard that.

Gun to my head, someone who claimed invest/prot

Someone who claimed protective or invest. *checks randomidget's claim*

You mean this one

Protective here, don't trust FA with the night actions. I have enough experience to help wirh night actions but probably shouldn't be writing all of them up.

fucking LOL

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 you man
and I don't think its just the sleep deprivation talking.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, you are right. I had not thought about that.

In that case I hit Godfather or MM. No feedback.

BUT I think i know you didn't hit them. Otherwise how did FA die?

There is no beguiler, you did shoot at Aristophanes. I dont believe scum have role that could have had an NK that looked like the one that killed FA.

When i have eliminated all the possible alternatives....

I start getting creative...

and i think i know how FA died.

but i don't feel like making fool of myself and fucking up the thread with sleep deprived and addled BS so i am going to actually sleep on it now.

So AI dont get your nickers in not. I may or may not also be able to "prove" the bus drivers alignment. That needs to wait too.

gnight for reals this time

[AxleGreaser]

and if Axle didn't think about that, seeing he's payed attention to stuff that flied over our heads, there's always the possibility that 3dice managed to cult Axle.

Idk, I'm just throwing stuff around, I'll re-read some stuff and wait for the silent players.

Go read my meta and see how deep I play the game when I play, then see if its credible I would see complex stuff.

Try my first newbie here and the post late in the game i made on perspective....

yeah i am such god damn tease.

[AxleGreaser]

@Randomidget

I haven't seen it that way, but it makes an awful lot of sense. Then, who do you think he targetted?

It's entirely probable that he tried to cult you and failed, though, let's don't discard that.

Gun to my head, someone who claimed invest/prot

Someone who claimed protective or invest. *checks randomidget's claim*

LOL

Hahaha.

Oh yeah. I claimed investigative. Oops.

I woke up to check something but....

wat.

[AxleGreaser]

We've got a gf for sure since we got, according to nether's first post: 1 Godfather, 1 Mafia Deception and 1 Mafia Support.

yeah thats the kind of thing i am sleeping on

I had looked at the category list and somehow assumed that because there were 3 mafia role categories we got one of each.
Like i said i need to sleep on things. i may wake again periodically as i have nightmares and come check stuff.

and yeah we town are in the pooh.

[AxleGreaser]

If Rvokthe is scum, then who is the remaining town?

Nope i am pretty sure i need you to

know

rvokthe is town.
I know the bus drive happened.

[AxleGreaser]

I also need Rkvothe to trust me AI

is

town.

In order town to win or have any chance of it, Sensei has to be town, if hes not were utterly screwed.
So i dont want him to try to prove hes town. I am just going to assume it.

I am open to discussion of

#1 (Lynch random midget)

Sensi, Axle, Rkvothe, and AI voting with 3 dice (and either 'neutral' if they choose to lynch Random)

(or personally I could also go either of percivul or Aris.)
As i am personally convinced that both percivul and aris are scum, i could lynch either of them too but dont know how to sell that to the other 3 townies. While retaining a chance for town to win.

And while #1 is my preferred option....
And hey if the survivors are really hung up on that one

#2 Lynch one of the neutrals with the help of the other.

(or the scum if they want a piece of the action)

I am also open to discussion of
Sensi, Axle, Rkvothe, and AI voting with 3 dice (and either neutral if they choose to lynch the other neutral)

[AxleGreaser]

I also need Rkvothe to trust me

AI

is

town

.

Even if it gets confusing and complicated.
RKvothe hang onto this one idea, FA was killed by a

town vig

AND

the only vig in the game is

AI.

I also don't give flying rats arse, if percivul suddenly gets his voice back tomorrow, and claims vig tomorrow,
Percivul is not the vig AI is. (that is just a very strong mafia read though)

Percivul waiting all damn day then suddenly noticing he has be blackmailed is just too sketchy for words.
Why did Percivul do it? he thought he could get out of confirming the bus driver. {To bad So sad }

[AxleGreaser]

3 DICE

Your possible win con lies in this posts direction

I think we should lynch between {persivul, random, aristophanes} in no particular order. Persivul being blackmailed is super shady considering he's been useless this game. Aristophanes is just PoE, and random is definitely not town.

Possble win con? yeah i truthfully have no idea how, but lynching someone other than you is always better than it being you.
And so far you keep being going to die for sure at night, and shit happens. So yeah your wincon is in getting one of those lynches to happen.

I think mine is too.

And no townies i was not converted.
You can work out 3 dice very likely really did try to convert random. how else did he so reliably and confidently call him out as scum and get it right?
That how i know none of you are converted.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm with Axle here. #1 seems fine.

AI

and THEN

Sensei

, are you down with #1.
(yes i am deliberately managing how little sensei says int he thread. he can say more if he thinks it wise. But i am not asking anything i dont need to.)

because then we need to see if either neutral will go for it.

@3Dice.

Do you have any clue As the scum made claims do you think we get any clue which one would be the GodFather from what they claimed?
I cant see how but hey hitting the godfather would be sweetest.

[AxleGreaser]

And then, why are we assuming mass murderer? Couldn't it be Serial Killer just as easily?

We dont have any thing that distinguishes whether it is SK or MM. For us they are lot the same we have to lynch them.

[AxleGreaser]

There's some stuff I want to say, actually.

Axle why don't you want me saying things? Like I think I get why but not sure.

Only that in 3 player game surprise is our only serious chance.
I was praying for the right power from you.
So as only you know whats best. I was beating out any fires so if you didnt want to claim you knew you only had to say "nope".

And Id fight all the rest of the argument.

surprise we only get now but not publicly claiming what our actions will be
then doing it it blind as individuals and hoping.

We have TBMK at most slim chances

[AxleGreaser]

There's some stuff I want to say, actually.

So given you have more info than i do say anything you think you want to.

[AxleGreaser]

I have nothing useful I can say, except that based on any setup problem like this i have thought about in the past.
Town cant win by publicly arranging this actions at this point.

I am pretty sure we are just screwed, but with some chance maybe, of a rabbit.

on a personal maybe even out of game level, I will also say to any towny,
I can see reasons why I might get killed, by other factions.. so I am screwed.
if at some point you to play to your individual win con is required to become a cultist and take win,
then i will cheer inside even though you'd be then leaving me and the other townies lurched.
No i wasnt recruited I am giving townies personal permission to get recruited and leave me lurched.

So yeah scum... and SK if you want to win you may even have to get you hands dirty and kill the cultist yourself.

There ya go 3D... I even gave you snowballs chance in hell too.

So yeah, N cornered shootouts are fun The good the bad and the weird (I give it at least 9 of 10 on the two headed rubber chicken(weirdness) scale)

[AxleGreaser]

^Lol look at who's on my wagon. The whole scum team.

and one "survivor" :0

[AxleGreaser]

Weird thought.

Lynch aristo and vig random??

True but like. I'd rather anyone but this buns ass scum team win.

And the fact that Aristo isn't gonna die at night means I think we lynch that and then more chances for scum to eat bullets. However they fall.

I am up for it.
VOTE: aristophanes.

I will lynch any scum slot, and grant my support to any vig shot Sensei calls.

[AxleGreaser]

Only thing I'm worried about is deadline and how many lurkers we've got.

Meh.

1 day 8 hrs is an eternity for me. I wont go walkies.

I dont have a way to work out which scum lynch is most likely to lynch vig proof.

Actually thinnest of made up reads suggest scum have favored keeping RM alive.
he was the one who claimed instead of standing around not claiming looking sus.
That wagon on 3D to keep him alive looks pretty sus.

VOTE: Random Midget

[AxleGreaser]

Oh we hammered already or not?
Apparently we did YOLLLLLO

[AxleGreaser]

Only thing I'm worried about is deadline and how many lurkers we've got.

Meh.

1 day 8 hrs is an eternity for me. I wont go walkies.

I dont have a way to work out which scum lynch is most likely to lynch vig proof.

Actually thinnest of made up reads suggest scum have favored keeping RM alive.
he was the one who claimed instead of standing around not claiming looking sus.
That wagon on 3D to keep him alive looks pretty sus.

VOTE: Random Midget

Holy crap.... this game man.

So yeah Sensei, i will lynch any 'scum' one of (random perc Aris) you tell me to.
No actual questions....

So do you choose Aris random or percivul.

pedit: kk

VOTE: Aristophanes.

[AxleGreaser]

sleepy time for a little bit again.

[AxleGreaser]

Finally fsck it.

Attention Bus Driver

As i expect the odds on you asking and finding out are quite a bit lower than a witch asking if they exist.
So to be sure you have as much information as a witch.

if a witch redirets a bus drive the witch only redirects the first name.
The other second end (name) of the bus trip is actually certainly (TBMK) under your control.

[AxleGreaser]

If I'm 3dice I cult axle.

There could have been merit to that plan, but he didnt do it, i am still town.

Actually maybe not axle because he might of predicted a scum kill there..

(perhaps he really mis understood the rules as indicated he did int he thread?)
(perhaps he also knows we really have to lynch an unviggable today so he was kinda safe for this lynch?)
I tried, i was not notified of being bus driven anywhere, so no kill was aimed at me and missed.
but I may yet die tonight.
There is/was an alternate better plan for him if he knew what I thought I knew.
If he did that plan then TBMK town members are screwed for winning... as town... They may get to king make themselves (their own slots).

What we can do today is lynch 3dice and hope the last scum is a bro and kills the other 1 or 2 cult.

There is a

bullet proof

chainsaw wielding 3rd party (Who wins a 1v1endgame unless lynched first).
There is

bullet proof

mafia GF (who cant win unless he lynches the 3rd party)
There is another 3rd party.. with role X.

There is a cultist.

There are 3 town. (at most even assuming none are now cultists)

7 Alive 4 required to lynch

For town to lynch anyone they need someone elses cooperation.
At this point in time I am not sure what plan going forwards gets town that cooperation
(GF might be bro and try to king make us, by voting to lynch the SK and then shooting a probable cult.)

If GF is willing to do that... I have lynch and GF shot and a Vig shot and a mafia read based case for that being the plan.

he would then of course get lynched the next day if it all worked out.
I may even be able to offer him the wisp of a chance of him getting to win if it does not work out.

Also the table is open for other negotiating positions put by other people.

[AxleGreaser]

actually it's probably aronis

i don't even know

Pretty sure i do.

help

trying to.

[AxleGreaser]

@Scum GF

Your screwed
Town needs to lynch the 3rd party SK. Scum needs to lynch the 3rd party SK.

For town to lynch anyone they need someone elses cooperation.
At this point in time I am not sure what plan going forwards gets town that cooperation
(GF might be bro and try to king make us, by voting to lynch the SK and then shooting a probable cult.)

If GF is willing to do that... I have lynch and GF shot and a Vig shot and a mafia read based case for that being the plan.

he would then of course get lynched the next day if it all worked out.
I may even be able to offer him the wisp of a chance of him getting to win if it does not work out.

Also the table is open for other negotiating positions put by other people.

So wheres does your wisp of a win come in?

Well if we guess the wrong person for SK today and lynch the other 3P instead.
Then overnight, rather lot of town will die as they are the only ones not BP.

Tomorrow, you'd be counting on the towny left alive returning the favor and king making you by lynching the SK with you then.

[AxleGreaser]

Glad to see you're still green man.

I am most probably hitting the hay soon.

[AxleGreaser]

Oh and BTW...
the

SK

could always I suppose lynch the GF, with town and then kill who i think is a potential recruited cultist for us.
I am, Not sure how that gets you the chance of a win, but meh. You might want to die in style or something.
Getting lynched today by scum/town alliance is so passe.

not getting lynched means you get to kill one more time?

do it for the puppies?

[AxleGreaser]

Hmmm, its actually even more complicated than i thought.
I can now think of all sorts of stuff.

3Dice

is there anyone you would be prepared to lynch today.
Say for instance either of the guys voting you.
They appear to think you'd be better dead.

Sensei

My scheming seems to be coming up short on any of the town winning as town, only some of them winning as cult seems plausible.

[AxleGreaser]

My best understanding of the game is that town need to choose which of the nk immune people that can only die today to lynch

I dont see a way that leads to our town faction winning, but it at least gives you a chance to personally win.

If someone else who i think is town works out different plan, I am probably willing to just do as i am told.
Given we are less than half the towns population, a winning as town strategy seems to me unlikely.
I thought i had plan but then i read all the rules closer.

VOTE: random midget

[AxleGreaser]

Glad to see you're still green man.

and wet behind the ears.

[AxleGreaser]

Sorry sensei, I missed the question. I'm not in the mafia.

and so who is the last mafia?

[AxleGreaser]

Lol, you're all wrong on who I converted. My luck is so sucky this game, but I'll explain that later.

UNVOTE:

Hold the phone..... You did wat.
and i have "mafia read" that makes me believe you? (aka I read that as truth)
(because I think you wouldn't need to arse around if you'd done something else.)

dont vote, just, dont vote

fsck.... i dont like this so I am going to have good good think.

I think town may have to defect, in a cruel way, but i am not sure...

lotsa thinking music is playing while i am gone.

prolly this times 8 or more actually
no really it might take me that long by the time I need some zzz's too.
kk.

[AxleGreaser]

There is no Survivor. There is a Witch. I figured it all out.

This is why I didn't shoot anyone this night. It would simply be handing over my vig power to the Witch, who needs the eliminate the Town to win.

WAT,

Are stating you did not submit a kill?

[AxleGreaser]

yeah Ok so the Rules means things i dont know about

Your target will be forced to target the player you specify as the new target.

The witch made you target, him
3 kill shots happened.

You hear shots ring through the streets...
You hear the horrifying cacophony of a chainsaw through flesh...
You hear a tight grouping of shots echoing through the town...

But its Ok the SK targeted him anyways.

Police report that rkvothe died.
He/She died horribly to chainsaw wounds. After that, he was attacked once more...
He was a Town Bus Driver.

The only way to have won was for him to have bus driven himself and the Witch... and hope someone tried to kill him.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: Random

After this, we finish off the Mass Murderer. Then the Witch.

Nope after this she uses your gun to kill some other townie. And wins with the SK.

That is unless we can interest her in winning as a witch doctor?

[AxleGreaser]

So dear(Yakko) how do you feel about cults?

[AxleGreaser]

yeah Ok so the Rules means things i dont know about

BTW I havent asked mod if that is what happens yet, its just the only thing that makes sense.

[AxleGreaser]

So dear(Yakko) how do you feel about cults?

if you are wondering if you can trust AI not to shoot 3D...
You can use your power to make me heal him.

god i feel dirty.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: Random

After this, we finish off the Mass Murderer. Then the Witch.

Nope after this she uses your gun to kill some other townie. And wins with the SK.

That is unless we can interest her in winning as a witch doctor?

The Witch cannot redirect my kill if I don't submit any action.

Did you ask because the flavor reads just like there were 3 kill shots.

[AxleGreaser]

If I submitted a kill, then the Witch would simply be able to redirect it to their own target. No sense in giving that power to the Witch.

And yes, it is 100% certain there is a Witch.

Yes due to the other shot getting redirected when we know the bus driver did not do it, and scum don't have the power to.

[AxleGreaser]

No, I didn't ask. It just makes more sense to me. The Witch would be really stupid if they could force someone to take an action without them choosing to do that. I only have 3 shots, so that would be incredibly stupid.

Oh, wait. There were 3 shots.

That means my shot was redirected anyway.

How lame.

The game would be much more interesting if I had any choice in this at all. But hey, fuck it. I'm a hostage to the Witch apparently, whatever I do.

Yup witches also force veterans to be on alert even though Veterans target no one.

If you attempt to manipulate a Town Veteran who still has unused alerts you will force him to stay on alert this night and will be considered visiting him.

[AxleGreaser]

I think the Bus Driver forced the Mafia to kill one of their own members by the way. Lol.

It is role madness.

[AxleGreaser]

@Yakko

So dear(Yakko) how do you feel about cults?

or do you want to try for win with the SK.

VOTE: random midget

[AxleGreaser]

Sensei, Im out of ideas, unless you have some other miracle climb on board and let someone hammer it.

[AxleGreaser]

Lol, you're all wrong on who I converted. My luck is so sucky this game, but I'll explain that later.

Yeah you shoulda made the witch a witch doctor, who could have protected you. Most people were not trying to kill or protect the witch.
An unknown government man was for time a potential rabbit, I hoped.
So sorry about that i blocked you.

BTW if its not clear by now i am doctor.
I knew the bus drive happened, as I protected Wisdom the night he died.
The kill happened and my protect didn't work.
And its an SK because a MM would have killed the busdriver too.

[AxleGreaser]

So sensei anything to say?

[AxleGreaser]

because it would be now or never

[AxleGreaser]

As in if you are actually town mayor who has been saving a triple vote for a surprise. (Witch)
Then I believe the vig has 1 shot left. (cultist nk)
1 of 3 die to GF
lynch GF.

other than that, its off to become cultists we go.
AFAIK.

[AxleGreaser]

If any of the three townies are actually cultists they might as well say, as then we'd just lynch the GF.

[AxleGreaser]

Whoever protected

No worries. Anytime.

I don't know if the witch over-rode, my protect on you, to protect you.
But hey, I tried hard to make you win if we don't. Seemed only fair.

Sorry bout the possibility of mayor surprise party.

[AxleGreaser]

That would result in a Town win.

yup but only if the Gov man happens to be a mayor with 3 votes.

otherwise its dancing naked int he rain, or whatever it these cultist do.

[AxleGreaser]

You hear shots ring through the streets...
You hear an eclectic mix of sounds, interspersed with horrified screams...

You hear a tight grouping of shots echoing through the town...

You hear shots ring through the streets...
You hear the horrifying cacophony of a chainsaw through flesh...

You hear a tight grouping of shots echoing through the town..

.

You hear shots ring through the streets...

I am sure as i can be, that you have a shot left.

I just have no idea, except a wafer thin read that he has some power up his sleeve.
But he might easily be marshall which would not be useful now and has not been so far at anytime due to our depleted numbers.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: yakko
I suppose i should

[AxleGreaser]

*dances nakedly in the rain*

ooooh tempting.

[AxleGreaser]

So sensei are ye town or cult?

[AxleGreaser]

Well if your town, 3d claimed to have tried to recruit aronis and failed the withc was was at L-1

If you hammer her town
AI vigs 3d tonight.

Then whichever 2 survive the night lynches Aronis tomorrow.

[AxleGreaser]

Wait, why aren't we lynching aronis again? I don't really care about the witch, as he can win with me, but why are we lynching the witch over a killing role?

witch is a killing role. When we have vig with a gun. We cant kill her at night.

[AxleGreaser]

If you hammer her town

@Sensei

so hammer the witch if you are town and not cult.

[AxleGreaser]

If however any townies are cult here should be room for all 3 townies(2 non converted) to convert to cult.
and 4 cult and the witch win a joint victory.

I am town and voted the witch. AI is town and voted the witch.. and he realylhas to be town as he has to shoot 3d tonight.

Now all we nee is the 1 vote from

town sensei

to hammer the witch.

[AxleGreaser]

Why were there no kills?

As you have hammered.

Someone protected the cultist... <blush me>

I sent in the action I don't know if the witch over rode me as-well.

[AxleGreaser]

@AI Shoot 3Dice for a

town win

.

One of the townies will or could die tonight but will win postumously when the other two lynch Aronis tomorrow.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: how I know town has 1 vig shot left

You hear shots ring through the streets...
You hear an eclectic mix of sounds, interspersed with horrified screams...

You hear a tight grouping of shots echoing through the town...

You hear shots ring through the streets...
You hear the horrifying cacophony of a chainsaw through flesh...

You hear a tight grouping of shots echoing through the town..

.

You hear shots ring through the streets...

I am sure as i can be, that you have a shot left.

highly recommended night actions

Town AI:Vig shoots 3dice tonight
Town Axle:doc protects anyone except 3dice.
Town Gov sensei: twiddles thumbs.

Scum GF:Aronis Kills anyone he pleases (or no one) as they all win postumously with town.
He could try shooting himself for the lols I suppose.

Witch Yakko: Lols it up in the dead thread.

BTW sorry yakko.

[AxleGreaser]

Someone protected the cultist... <blush me>

As i suggested, to the witch that she could control me, to protect him, and our vig might, get a rush of blood act as if that would happen.
AI Shooting 3D. (last night)

Result of the protect is his vig shot does nothing unless the maf ALSO shoots 3D.

Outcome if 3D dies, by double tap, we win as town.
If 3D doesnt die, and does not recruit in way I could not begin to fathom...

Then we personally win with the cult. (looked a bit win win to me)

As 3D will die tonight, you can all you like.

Also if there are indeed any two people cultists BESIDES 3D and yakko, we already lost and cult won.

if 3d and yakko are now cultists, it was locked in town (wins this way with mafs vote) or cult wins.
more win win.

So yeah i had my eye on me too.

[AxleGreaser]

I put this game for nomination

What as? { ... }

I have a long list of adjectives.

but yeah it was kinda epic.
but then I have never played in one like this before, so it all seemed pretty epic to me.

[AxleGreaser]

Hmmmm was hoping 3dice would target me never did :/ lol

I felt that as you could redirect, that you often had more power to win with cult as a witch than as a witch doctor.
There was a critical window, when recruiting you or me (but I thought i was a likely shot for this reason) would have made a witch doctor.

If that happens and you don't get killed the next day, Then a witch doctor protecting a cultist at night, takes 3 shots to kill them both.
Which nearly guarantees one surviving and another shot at another recruit.

One advantage to the witch in being converted is I suppose, that once you are a cultist you no longer have to live to win with them.

[AxleGreaser]

Hmmmm was hoping 3dice would target me never did :/ lol

Spoiler: your hat

yeah, while wincons a thing, if I'm ever just the king maker...
we might well both remember this game, and ...

[AxleGreaser]

The 7 people I like the least, in no particular order: {3dicerolling, Frozen Angel, hi im Yakko, Aronis, Persivul, Aristophanes, Sensei}

The rest of you can be town, maybe

6/7

Who needs claims and roles

That IIRC you could possibly do that, is why blind i breadcrumbed I would protect you N1...
by

first doing no harm

to you. 16
My intention had been to protect you but then something gave me a hinky feeling about it.
So I changed to Percivul, not because i believed he was necessarily town at all but because i had an expectation of being able to know if he wasn't.
and yeah he was playing a style and approach he couldn't/didn't keep up.

and FYI: No don't go looking for crumbs in any other games I play, I always (in completed games) have rolled VT (or scum), and plan on not claiming, and playing so that i don't have to.
So the breadcrumb is usually all risk and downside if the motivated mafia find it.
So I expect i wont, and that if I did it will be so bloody weird, it wouldn't really be believed anyways so why bother.
It was just i had no idea what to do this game and I had a weird Idea so I did.

[AxleGreaser]

No, Netherspite handled the whole thing very well and his decision to remove BM in future games is a good one. It's just that some of the shit in the dead thread got ugly unfortunately. But in any case, it's over and town won so it's all good.

BM is less "fun" in games with format as long as this one.
if you want to have mechanics like that where there is slippery slope grey area. I have seen information conveyed by the mere timing of naked vote... when the person could speak but chose not to.
So if you want to have mechanics like BM, I think youd need to have a private topic vote thread for the BM person, and then the mod only copies across whats appropriate.

I suppose, To make it less "no fun", you could have the private topic so it is made public to the game next day, that way the BM person could rant to themselves in it and comment on the game and it and their reads become public even if they die. I suspect however its a bit of "no fun" mechanic as people sign up, and spend their time, (quite a lot of it) to play. The BM mechanic gives them a raw deal where they still have to spend the time but cant play. Its bad mana.

My 2C.