Open 623 (White Flag) - A Moment in Time (Over)

[Viva La Gloria]

Titus, see all the people declaring SS some variation of confirmed scum and then lining up mislynches to follow him?
See all the people soft defending you and preventing me from pushing on you while leaving you open as a later lynch?

Are you seriously saying that's not bothering you and making you reconsider at all?

SS is confirmed scum, so it doesn't bother me. The defense isn't soft and I'm town.

If people think they can mislynch me while claiming the wagon is right, they got another thing coming.

Notice that Titus continually refuses to engage me in any real way and just redirects focus back onto SS.
You're like talking to a brick wall here. When he flips town why should I believe that you were wrong as opposed to scum?
Like fuck even if he does flip scum why should I believe that you weren't bussing him? Why should I want to follow you onto Rhaz?

Please stop enabling this play. Run her up and make her talk.

[SirCakez]

Asbit stands, a SS lynch would bring us somewhere I want to be.

Then why haven't you voted him?

[Viva La Gloria]

No one's engaging with me, everyone's putting me in a box labelled town and ignoring what I say.
No one has even asked me to explain my SS townread for crying out loud.
If everyone's so damn sure SS is town why am I not getting called out for a chainsaw vote on an unexplained townread on a leading wagon?

I asked people to explain Titus townreads. nothing.

[TheCow]

Asbit stands, a SS lynch would bring us somewhere I want to be.

Then why haven't you voted him?

I'm not done yet.

[TheCow]

If it comes to it, I'll hammer the SS wagon to take responsibility for my intent to vote. I don't want to vote right now.

[Yonom]

No one has even asked me to explain my SS townread for crying out loud.

Ok explain.

---

The only serious read you have on Titus seems to come from the "180" thing. I can see why Titus would behave in such a way as town though, see post 615.

Not sure why we would want to lynch Titus instead of SS, when the case on SS is so much stronger. Please do tell us why you think SS isn't scum.

[Something_Smart]

@Viva I'd like to engage you but I am obviously not going to dispute your townread on me. I am trying to work out whether it's towny rationality or whiteknighting, but talking to you about that won't really help.

[SirCakez]

Why do you call everyone who town reads you whiteknighting?

[Something_Smart]

What part of "I'm trying to determine if it's whiteknighting" don't you understand?

[SirCakez]

You're considering it which is close enough.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Viva I can talk lalater but it's hard to talk with someone who comes across as yelling at everyone.

[Something_Smart]

You're considering it which is close enough.

I'm considering that you may be a really bad townie but that doesn't mean I believe it. This is terrible logic.

[pistachi0n]

Hey, I'm here, I'm catching up. Post being constructed.

[pistachi0n]

The SS wagon is terrible.

Vote 1: SirCakez, who's been scumreading SS since the joke post 21. Also, I'm still scumreading Cakez, so I'm biased because of that.

Vote 2: Titus, also scumreading SS since the beginning, claiming he was caught scum early on. Same thing with the 21. I don't agree with her reasoning for why SS was scum--it was the infamous post 21, and "telegraphing," but didn't give thorough reasons besides those weak ones.

Vote 3: PhantomCobalt, because of "useless theory fluff." Didn't give an example of what the useless theory fluff was, didn't push beyond that.

Vote 4: Yonom, because SS was jumping to conclusions too fast and too randomly. I don't think this was as bad as the other votes, but I disagree with it. I think it's an issue of playstyle--we have people like Cerb who are stingy with their votes and don't use unless almost certain, and we have players like SS who move the vote around to indicate who their current top scumread is.

Vote 5: Extrapolated Eagle, who voted SS after he stopped scumreading Cakez. The vote seems largely arbitrary, EE is scumreading SS for a lot of the same reasons he's townreading AI. SS doesn't seem like someone trying to blend in.

Top scum-reads are Cakez, AI, and Titus.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@pistachio

No. I've already said I'm scumreading ss for two reasons: 1. His vote at the beginning of the game, 2. His intentionally poor logic recently. Like I have said a million times now, outside of these two mistakes, ss would be a town read because of similar reasons to why ai is a town read.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So, no. Not arbitrary at all. Don't misrepresent me.

[Cerberus v666]

Viva: because I know for a fact she's both lynch bait at times AND very strong late game. Oh and I'm confident she'll be able to be read with more certainty later in the game. You're right that if she's scum we should lynch her, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in her play. The Yonom thing is rhe closest to being scummy, amd Yonom said stuff in the middle which could have very easily changed her mind on them.

Also, you're misunderstanding whoever it was you quoted in that shitty context removed quote. He said YOUR reads are off, and so are Titus', but maybe his are too.

To be perfectly clear here: I lynch people because they're being scummy, and their actions have scum motivations, NOT because they're not being "town" enough for me. Not obvtown!=scum. Especially on D1. Later on we can PoE things and use some logic, but right now? Nope. Not good enough.

Then why the hell is she refusing to explain her reads.
I voted her to get her to explain her shit. She did not explain her shit besides saying 'oh check my ISO' where I still find her shit utterly unexplained.
She does not get to play the "OH IM LYNCHBAIT" card and you shouldn't be playing it for her when

she's utterly unable to substantiate her positions.

Why are you making excuses for her? Why is everyone making excuses for her?
Why isn't she asking questions about people making excuses for her.
She is clearly not making effort to scumhunt, her positions are clearly inauthentic. You were FoSing her and picking at her reads and all of a sudden you're townreading her?
Why?

The bolded is valid. She really should have more to say. I really think she's basing it entirely on a tell which has worked twice for her in the past, and which she thinks always holds true. If she's basing her tunnel off just that, I don't think there's really any argument we can make or any more reason she'd have to give us. Which is shitty. But it's not any shittier than saying "gut" when someone asks you why you read something, and that's somehow acceptable.

Also, when the hell did I FoS her?

[Titus]

Viva: because I know for a fact she's both lynch bait at times AND very strong late game. Oh and I'm confident she'll be able to be read with more certainty later in the game. You're right that if she's scum we should lynch her, but I don't see anything particularly scummy in her play. The Yonom thing is rhe closest to being scummy, amd Yonom said stuff in the middle which could have very easily changed her mind on them.

Also, you're misunderstanding whoever it was you quoted in that shitty context removed quote. He said YOUR reads are off, and so are Titus', but maybe his are too.

To be perfectly clear here: I lynch people because they're being scummy, and their actions have scum motivations, NOT because they're not being "town" enough for me. Not obvtown!=scum. Especially on D1. Later on we can PoE things and use some logic, but right now? Nope. Not good enough.

Then why the hell is she refusing to explain her reads.
I voted her to get her to explain her shit. She did not explain her shit besides saying 'oh check my ISO' where I still find her shit utterly unexplained.
She does not get to play the "OH IM LYNCHBAIT" card and you shouldn't be playing it for her when

she's utterly unable to substantiate her positions.

Why are you making excuses for her? Why is everyone making excuses for her?
Why isn't she asking questions about people making excuses for her.
She is clearly not making effort to scumhunt, her positions are clearly inauthentic. You were FoSing her and picking at her reads and all of a sudden you're townreading her?
Why?

The bolded is valid. She really should have more to say. I really think she's basing it entirely on a tell which has worked twice for her in the past, and which she thinks always holds true. If she's basing her tunnel off just that, I don't think there's really any argument we can make or any more reason she'd have to give us. Which is shitty. But it's not any shittier than saying "gut" when someone asks you why you read something, and that's somehow acceptable.

Also, when the hell did I FoS her?

A tell is a tell is a tell.
I believe the tell is accurate.
Thus my read is substantiated. I highlighted independent behavioral reasons as well.

I should have more to say. Why bother? That's just throwing mist when I feel the game is solved.

[Something_Smart]

@pistachio

No. I've already said I'm scumreading ss for two reasons: 1. His vote at the beginning of the game, 2. His intentionally poor logic recently. Like I have said a million times now, outside of these two mistakes, ss would be a town read because of similar reasons to why ai is a town read.

Interesting, please explain where I used intentionally poor logic?

I think the quoted is intentionally poor logic. You think I'm skilled enough scum to play ALL GAME like your description of town, but dumb enough to slip twice? You haven't even explained why the second "slip" is a slip.

[PhantomCobalt]

AlwaysInnocent scum-lean
pistachi0n town-lean
Droog town
Cerberus v666 town-lean
Titus town
PhantomCobalt town
SirCakez town-lean
Something_Smart scum
Extrapolated Eagle town
Viva La Gloria null
TheCow null
Yonom town
Firebreather town

[Something_Smart]

^Too many townreads; only two scumreads which have both been super easy targets. Come up with some better scumreads. Make some enemies.

[PhantomCobalt]

^Too many townreads; only two scumreads which have both been super easy targets. Come up with some better scumreads. Make some enemies.

Why are you telling me to reevaluate my reads? Because your scum on it?


My scumdar is almost broken after reading that

[Something_Smart]

There are three scum in this game. You have two scumreads. Do the math.
And the two scumreads you do have are ones you will catch no flak for having. Basically that is a risk-free readlist right there.
EE, you were talking about scum trying to blend in and avoid standing out? That's exactly what this is.

[PhantomCobalt]

I only need 2 scumreads, read the mechanics

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@pistachio

No. I've already said I'm scumreading ss for two reasons: 1. His vote at the beginning of the game, 2. His intentionally poor logic recently. Like I have said a million times now, outside of these two mistakes, ss would be a town read because of similar reasons to why ai is a town read.

Interesting, please explain where I used intentionally poor logic?

I think the quoted is intentionally poor logic. You think I'm skilled enough scum to play ALL GAME like your description of town, but dumb enough to slip twice? You haven't even explained why the second "slip" is a slip.

There are three scum in this game. You have two scumreads. Do the math.
And the two scumreads you do have are ones you will catch no flak for having. Basically that is a risk-free readlist right there.
EE, you were talking about scum trying to blend in and avoid standing out? That's exactly what this is.

If you were town you would have pointed out that was a town slip and not actually tried to see if you could get him lynched for it. This is one example of your poor logic.

No, I don't think you're smart enough to play all game like my description of town. I think that's easy and doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to do. It just takes reading through your posts before your posts before you post them or just playing the game most of the time with the mindset that you are town. And your version of town is one of the easiest to play.

But don't get it into your head that you play entirely like my description of ai as town. You aren't. You waver in quite a few places. I would have started with a stronger town read but moved to null-town as the day progressed if you hadn't slipped at the beginning of the game and started using scum!logic.