Mini 1749: Classic Rock Mafia: Game Over!

[RadiantCowbells]

Classic Rock Mafia:

Votecount #4.64:

Dierfire (2): AlwaysInnocent, Aj The Epic
Frozen Angel (1): Garmr
Garmr (0):
Aeronaut (0):
Aj The Epic (0):
Davesaz (0):
AlwaysInnocent (0):



Not voting: Davesaz, Aeronaut, Dierfire, Frozen Angel

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch.

Night falls in (expired on 2016-02-04 14:00:00).

Song:

Aerosmith: Dream On

Notes:

All these lines in the face getting clearer.
Please stop making me prod you guys. Post!

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

I need to reread AI and Aj sometime today

[AlwaysInnocent]

I need to reread AI and Aj sometime today

No need to. We already solved the game.

[Frozen Angel]

Why Garmr can be scum :

- the interactions with the flipped scums don't look healthy
- FB claim followed by his claim looked preplanned

+ He claimed 1 shot Bulletproof bodyguard and last night no one died . Although this can be considered a silly gambit , his claim is confirmable due to all the nights we have in future.

Why AI can be the scum :

- His first day posts were like "If mathilda turn scum Albert is town" or "I can vote you if you want!" (to dwlee)
- He was setup speculating so hard in day 1 ("apparently I'm mason reading everyone in the game" "existence of miller doesn't prove cop"

No. Albert B is not a good Lynch.

lets lynch fire !

We can Lynch Firebringer tomorrow. Let's stick with Mathilda for now. Unless we have reason to believe she is town, which I highly doubt.

- He started delaying FB and ABR lynch since day 1 , got truley pissed about my FB hammer and was trying to suggest a way for ABR to be town.

+ His push on mathilda in day 1 was townish
+ The way he got upset after FB lynch is considerable for a townie
+ He put to much effort in lynching Mathilda and now is doing that about dire. its a weak town tell as well becuase scum usually wants to stay in silense and let the others win the game for them.

Why Aj is a scum lean:

- The lack of doing anything in game - its basically a null tell not a scum tell ... But still nobody likes lurkeres

Why Aero is semi confirmed town :

Aero is confirmed town becuase with two scum flips and the fact I never saw a 4 member scum team in any mini normal games of mine I think its a 3 member scum game (tell me I'm wrong if otherwise) and the fact Gramr says he body gurded Aero - unless Aero done a scum gambit - He and Garmr can't be scum together - He can't kill himself so he is confirmed town.

Ok need to reread Direfire and Davasez and I will declare my vote

[Frozen Angel]

I need to reread AI and Aj sometime today

No need to. We already solved the game.

Its needed! I don't trust you!

[AlwaysInnocent]

FA, I ask you to trust me this once. My actions have not been the best in this game, but if you read carefully you will see that I cannot be scum with FB and Albert B.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Aj replaced Radja. The interactions between Albert B. and Radja make them an unlikely scum team.

[AlwaysInnocent]

I suppose even if you Lynch me we can still win this game. But let's not.

[Dierfire]

All right, watch me while I do work!

I'll have more on Frozen when she finishes reading. I've expressed suspicion of her behavior toward the Firebringer and ABR wagons but helping us lynch them both buys her at least one more day. The push against Garmr seems to me to chiefly be OMGUS based on his case against her in the Neighborhood.
Aero still hasn't answered me as to why he believes that AlwaysInnocent is Mafia. I don't know whether it's something besides the obvious. I've decided that the obvious is too obvious and I continue to read him as Town.
Speaking of Aero, his decision to include ABR in the Neighborhood and push him as Ascetic is worth some credit and there's a reasonable chance that the kill was directed at him. I was going to say that this weighs against Frozen being Mafia but it wasn't actually mentioned in the Neighborhood until after the kill failed.
Garmr should not be lynched. Besides the lack of a kill, I caught additional information to support his claim while reading again. In 241 he doubted the existence of a Doctor. As I said before, his claimed role makes him likely to die before LYLO, and I'm comfortable giving him a pass until then.

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

Hum, actually, I'm going to break this post up a bit.

[Dierfire]

@Davesaz

VCA gives me either Dierfire is scum (evidence being his wagon could not be used to save scum ABR or scum Firebringer) or AlwaysInnocent (evidence being pattern of vote parking Dierfire and being unwilling to abandon that seemingly for any reason). I did that strictly off the official votecounts so there could have been an AI vote change that changed back before the next VC, skimming in this way would not pick that up.

I'm not entirely certain what method is being used for this analysis, but it seems off to me.

1077 vc is the tipping point.
Classic Rock Mafia: Votecount #2.44:

Firebringer (3): Dierfire, Davesaz, Frozen Angel
Dierfire (3): AlwaysInnocent, Albert B. Rampage, Aj The Epic
Aeronaut (1): Firebringer
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Albert B. Rampage (0):
iraonavp (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Aj The Epic (0):
Garmr (0):
Davesaz (0):



Not voting: Garmr, iraonavp, Aeronaut

At this point, what have Garmr and Aeronaut said about Dierfire?
Garmr said nothing, review Aero.
AJ is also a possible
FA dropping and coming back is sketchy but she did not take the opportunity to vote Dier.

I wonder if Dier is also scum? That would explain the lack of an effective counter to FB.

How would that explain the lack of an effective counter to Firebringer? I'm looking at the vote count and thinking that I

was

the opposing wagon to Firebringer. Firebringer trapped himself off of my wagon by reading me as Town, but ABR is on my wagon there and if AlwaysInnocent or Aj is Mafia then it would be a fairly concerted push. So, I'm sort of wondering what your thinking was with this.

[Dierfire]

Spoiler: Aj

There is a higher likelihood of it being Dier. We're ignoring a lot of what happened D1, where he pulled a town read on Aero for nothing at all. In 91 he allows himself a lot of 'to-be' scum reads but oddly not even one of our scum was mentioned. In later days, he's had bullshit moments of sheeping (aka on gamr when gamr was having an issue getting my arguments in order)

I could sort of see you thinking that I was just following Garmr, although you don't seem to wonder why Garmr doesn't believe that. The answer is that I was pushing for your lynch in the Neighborhood. It sort of seems like you forgot that you can ask people to explain their actions. I'm not exactly sure that it makes you Mafia, but it's at least lazy.

@AlwaysInnocent
I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

This feels like a scum claim. The thing with AI is his reads now have picked 1 for 4, and he's been on neither of the inevitable scum lynches. I would definitely expect him to have been on FB's wagon since he had his own vocal displeasure if he was scum just for conformity sake. FB and ABR both were inevitiable in their own ways so not only is Dier making something out of nothing,

What was the end of this sentence?
I do regret losing my patience with AlwaysInnocent but I think that it's a fair question for him--he should really be wondering why his vote is never in the right place if he's Town.

Oddly enough, Dier doubts the fact that ABR's aesthetic could be scum (asking Aero to explain) but votes ABR in the same breath anyways.

That doesn't sound true to me at all. I didn't ask Aero to explain; I offered my explanation of why I was suspected ABR.

UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

The POE in 1378:

@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Isn't helpful in the least. It's almost asking for an excuse for another sheep vote. there's a much higher chance that Dier is scum over AI.

Again, there's this odd obsession with the idea that I'm just following other people's votes which is not really in evidence. It's possibly an exaggerated response to my initial D2 vote?

Appealing to a hood when you're suspect #1 is manipulative. There's no need to try and bar off the game from the conversation right now.

Could you explain whom I would be trying to manipulate and how? It doesn't make much sense to me. I agree that the private conversations aren't especially useful at this time, which is sort of the point of my offer to move the discussion into the main thread.

So I guess that, on balance, being lazy isn't really alignment-indicative (I've been pretty lazy myself over the last few days). I'll vote for Aj because it looks like he went out of his way to scrape things that he could present as suspicious about me.

VOTE: Aj the Epic

[Frozen Angel]

My case against Garmr is not omgus

I was thinking about it after I saw the FB claim and that theatrical show

I just developed it into a case today. when he made a case against me - which I answered completly

and my case is not omgus. I made a logical case based on the facts happened in game - not his vote on me

so stop the fucking misrepresentation. It won't help you out from this

[Frozen Angel]

"Bought me one more day"

is so damn scummy

like your just sorting mislynches to win ...

[Aj The Epic]

Spoiler: Aj

There is a higher likelihood of it being Dier. We're ignoring a lot of what happened D1, where he pulled a town read on Aero for nothing at all. In 91 he allows himself a lot of 'to-be' scum reads but oddly not even one of our scum was mentioned. In later days, he's had bullshit moments of sheeping (aka on gamr when gamr was having an issue getting my arguments in order)

I could sort of see you thinking that I was just following Garmr, although you don't seem to wonder why Garmr doesn't believe that. The answer is that I was pushing for your lynch in the Neighborhood. It sort of seems like you forgot that you can ask people to explain their actions. I'm not exactly sure that it makes you Mafia, but it's at least lazy.

@AlwaysInnocent
I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

This feels like a scum claim. The thing with AI is his reads now have picked 1 for 4, and he's been on neither of the inevitable scum lynches. I would definitely expect him to have been on FB's wagon since he had his own vocal displeasure if he was scum just for conformity sake. FB and ABR both were inevitiable in their own ways so not only is Dier making something out of nothing,

What was the end of this sentence?
I do regret losing my patience with AlwaysInnocent but I think that it's a fair question for him--he should really be wondering why his vote is never in the right place if he's Town.

Oddly enough, Dier doubts the fact that ABR's aesthetic could be scum (asking Aero to explain) but votes ABR in the same breath anyways.

That doesn't sound true to me at all. I didn't ask Aero to explain; I offered my explanation of why I was suspected ABR.

UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

The POE in 1378:

@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Isn't helpful in the least. It's almost asking for an excuse for another sheep vote. there's a much higher chance that Dier is scum over AI.

Again, there's this odd obsession with the idea that I'm just following other people's votes which is not really in evidence. It's possibly an exaggerated response to my initial D2 vote?

Appealing to a hood when you're suspect #1 is manipulative. There's no need to try and bar off the game from the conversation right now.

Could you explain whom I would be trying to manipulate and how? It doesn't make much sense to me. I agree that the private conversations aren't especially useful at this time, which is sort of the point of my offer to move the discussion into the main thread.

So I guess that, on balance, being lazy isn't really alignment-indicative (I've been pretty lazy myself over the last few days). I'll vote for Aj because it looks like he went out of his way to scrape things that he could present as suspicious about me.

VOTE: Aj the Epic

except you ignore that I was SCUMREADING YOU DAY 1. There's no scraping cases, this is a CONSTANT thing.

[Dierfire]

@Frozen

Do you have a comment on my vote for Aj or my reads on any of the other players?

@Aj

I seem to remember you scraping cases D1 as well.

[Dierfire]

@AJ

Okay, so I agree with the votes on dier after reading this post.
>Suggest scum Taly.
>Scum reading AlwaysInnocent(I agree, but still)
>Suggesting Aero is town, BUT he only 'trusts his read' on FA and then gives reason that he doesn't trust it.
And while it looks like he trys to call Gamr town, there's a double standard on Matt for prodding Dwlee, not gamr. This suggests he's suspicious of a pairing of matt/Gamr. So we come away with 4 scum reads in varying certainty or actual accusation in one post. Only one easy town read. This guy should DEFINITELY be pressed.

This doesn't look like a correct summary of my 91 at all.

[Frozen Angel]

Do you have a comment on my vote for Aj or my reads on any of the other players?

you can read my last post about my view on some of other players and I promised to deliver my reads on you and the remaining players. about the points you mentioned about AJ well I can't say they make him scum. you just exaggerated them in a scummy manner. You as you said so as well proved he is lazy.

Is that make him a mafia?

[AlwaysInnocent]

"Bought me one more day"

is so damn scummy

like your just sorting mislynches to win ...

No, really? Could he really be doing that?

[Dierfire]

@Frozen

Your question is whether being lazy makes Aj Mafia. The answer is that it does not. I pointed out a few cases in which it looked like the lazy thought extended beyond laziness to active misinformation/misinterpretation/misrepresentation.
I read your last post but I'm not exactly certain how you're reading most players. It sounds like you're still reading Garmr as Mafia but have decided to let him pass in agreement with my theory that his role will help us sort him if he's Town. I think that you came away with a Null read on Aj and a Town read on AlwaysInnocent. It is clear that you're reading Aero as Town.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Dierfire gives reasons why Aj is town.

Votes him anyway.

[Frozen Angel]

"Bought me one more day"

is so damn scummy

like your just sorting mislynches to win ...

No, really? Could he really be doing that?

why should he getting to stay in middleground in me/Garmr case. like he is not fully town reading him :

In neighbor pt : "I wouldn't consider lynching Garmr before LYLO."

nor town reading me (here) : "I'll have more on Frozen when she finishes reading. I've expressed suspicion of her behavior toward the Firebringer and ABR wagons but helping us lynch them both buys her at least one more day. The push against Garmr seems to me to chiefly be OMGUS based on his case against her in the Neighborhood."

....

[Dierfire]

I gave reasons why he would be Mafia, too! Those are the ones that made me vote for him.

[Dierfire]

@Frozen

I'm not exactly certain what you're saying there.

[AlwaysInnocent]

"Bought me one more day"

is so damn scummy

like your just sorting mislynches to win ...

No, really? Could he really be doing that?

why should he getting to stay in middleground in me/Garmr case. like he is not fully town reading him :

In neighbor pt : "I wouldn't consider lynching Garmr before LYLO."

nor town reading me (here) : "I'll have more on Frozen when she finishes reading. I've expressed suspicion of her behavior toward the Firebringer and ABR wagons but helping us lynch them both buys her at least one more day. The push against Garmr seems to me to chiefly be OMGUS based on his case against her in the Neighborhood."

....

Yeah. The whole town is in his possible lynch pool. That is not very comforting.