Blitz 21 - Hope plus One ―kibou― [End]

[Expedience]

because the logic chains are just THAT weak

"he didn't vote ank when he phoneposted, he made a joke at the wrong time and bee tee dubs plot townread him for that and he's scum"

unless you want to make the argument that expedience is bad, but he never struck me as such

For someone offended by being called "underwhelming", this isn't a nice thing to say.

[Wisdom]

Would you mind if we lynched Scatterplot before Phantom?

[Wisdom]

In regards to Ranger, I know how she might look like scum to you because of her sticky deathtunnels that don't change, but it's just that Ranger is stubborn. It's not that she's scum, it's that she really strongly believes she has caught both remaining scum and holds onto it.

[Expedience]

I'm not sure how you expect me to answer that question. I wouldn't oppose lynching Scatterplot, no. But it wouldn't be optimal in my opinion.

[Wisdom]

It's just that there are five of us on their two wagons and we should agree on lynching one of them.

[Expedience]

In regards to Ranger, I know how she might look like scum to you because of her sticky deathtunnels that don't change, but it's just that Ranger is stubborn. It's not that she's scum, it's that she really strongly believes she has caught both remaining scum and holds onto it.

In my experience with her, she has been confident but never this confident. It's not a difficult thing to fake as scum, apart from the having to awkwardly townread the scummy town players part.

[Scatterplot]

Expedience, have you read 1519?

--P

[Expedience]

It's just that there are five of us on their two wagons and we should agree on lynching one of them.

I don't think that's really a concern this early in the day. We still have time to hear from both of them.

[Wisdom]

I know, but there's actual conviction in her posts that shows she really believes in her scumreads rather than simply trying to push a mislynch. There's also actual anger in her posts when other people don't agree with her points.

[Wisdom]

It's just that there are five of us on their two wagons and we should agree on lynching one of them.

I don't think that's really a concern this early in the day. We still have time to hear from both of them.

Well personally I don't really care about hearing from either of them, as I am pretty confident everyone else is town. But I understand this view.

[Expedience]

Expedience, have you read 1519?

--P

Yeah, I read it earlier and it felt irrelevant. I checked his ISO in the other game just now and that seems like evidence for him being scum, so I'm more confused as to why you're refusing to vote him.

[Expedience]

I know, but there's actual conviction in her posts that shows she really believes in her scumreads rather than simply trying to push a mislynch. There's also actual anger in her posts when other people don't agree with her points.

I know RadiantCowbells does the fake anger thing as scum. The fact that she's so ridiculously overconfident with defending the reads makes me think that it's faked.

[Scatterplot]

I'm not refusing to vote him. I want to finish ISOing some other people.

How is it irrelevant when it explains the thing you've been tunnelling me for all game? You've done almost nothing else but try to tie me to his slot because of something I did in RVS to get reads.

--P

[Expedience]

I'm not refusing to vote him. I want to finish ISOing some other people.

So you think he's scum, then? This was not at all clear from your strong pushing on Wisdom and Ankiamus, it sounded like you were not wanting to vote him because you thought he was town.

How is it irrelevant when it explains the thing you've been tunnelling me for all game? You've done almost nothing else but try to tie me to his slot because of something I did in RVS to get reads.

--P

It's not about that any more, that was d1.

[Expedience]

Just to be clear, I'm not voting PhantomCobalt. If you were trying to pin down potential scumbuddies for me, go ahead and use him, I guess.

I was referring to this weird af post.

[Scatterplot]

I think he could be scum, but at this point I mainly think it because you're trying so hard to tie me to him that it's causing my brain to do preflip associatives with you and makes me wonder if this wisdom/ankamius thing has just been "all the more experienced players get paranoid of each other when the scumteam is actually the newest players" and I don't know what to think of that.

But aside from that, he has his KT tunnel on his favour. I don't know if he's the sort of player who would bus in a tunnel or not, and that's why Ether is townleaning him.

Your attacking her wisdom/ankamius reads doesn't make sense either from my perspective because she's been paranoid of wisdom all game and I wasn't seeing it for a while but I started to see it towards the end of the yesterDay because of all of wisdom's pushing looked like cheeky scum stuff, but then so did Ashnard's posting; I can't think of any town motivation for the way Ashnard was behaving either.

That post of Ether's isn't all that weird. We both sort of feel like no matter what we do you guys are going to invent some reason to scumread us for it because it's been pretty damned if we do damned if we don't lately.

I feel like scum are capitalising on my not being able to be as present as I usually am in my games, but there are too many people doing it for all of you to be scum, and in recent games of mine town aligned players have been pushing me on the most absurd bullshit that it's pretty hard to tell townpushes from scumpushes.

--P

[Scatterplot]

because of all of wisdom's

pushing

POSTING

looked like cheeky scum stuff

still not wordsing as well as I wish I were.

--P

[Spiffeh]

Plot who are the scum capitalizing on you not being present?

[Wisdom]

That post of Ether's isn't all that weird. We both sort of feel like no matter what we do you guys are going to invent some reason to scumread us for it because it's been pretty damned if we do damned if we don't lately.

So you're saying that you're not going to vote Phantom because you're scared we'll associate his scumflip with you. And I'm supposed to think this is somehow town. Right?

[Scatterplot]

I don't know, spiffeh, that's what I'm trying to find out. I have a tendency to scumread people who try to push me to do more than I'm doing when I'm already on the verge of a meltdown about failing to live up to expectations, which is a large part of why I lynched you in The Odds. I'm trying not to do that to you again here even though you voted me pretty much as soon as I explained that I've been less present due to health stuff.

The way Wisdom was talking to me at the end of day 2 when using language hurt, pushing me to vote for the mislynch...i'm not going to say the comparison because it's over the top even though it's 100% true and i don't know how to explain it to someone who doesn't have my disability. i don't know how to words it. It felt kind of imperius curselike.


But it's too...close to home...for me to see if interacting with me this way is because people are scum or because they don't realise what's happening. I feel like other people have been casting out feelers in recent pages. Expedience has been backing off which is interesting (I don't mean scummy interesting I just mean it's something that i've noticed and it's a puzzle piece that I don't know where it fits yet). Players that i'm 99% sure are town (Gorkington, but also I think anti and ranger, doing this off the top of my head) are giving me space because they realise that boxing me into a corner is a bad way to figure out my alignment.

Even trying to talk about this is making my connection to language feel all tenuous. I think this is a true thing that's happening but talking about it is too hard.



pedit: no wisdom, that's not what i'm saying. stop trying to put words into my mouth. I think that expedience is trying to tie me to phantom. i think that if expedience is scum, then phantom is more likely to also be scum. that means i want to lynch expedience first if i'm lynching in [expedience, phantom], because Expedience scum flip tells me something about Phantom but Phantom scum flip doesn't tell me something about Expedience (Expedience could be town and right about his reads in that instance).

--P

[Wisdom]

That's not at all what either Ether or you said. Ether said she is not going to be voting Phantom. You said that that post wasn't weird, and you feel that no matter what you do, people will find a way to call you scummy.

So basically, you don't want to vote him, because even if he flips scum, you feel people will believe you are his scumbuddy regardless of if you vote him or not.

[Scatterplot]

that's not what I said.

And the "damned if we do damned if we don't" feeling is not limited to Phantom. it's pervasive. People are determined to twist our words to fit their own narrative no matter what we're actually saying. You're doing it right now.

--P

[Wisdom]

As for your new "I wanna lynch Expedience first" excuse, that's a classical scum practice: Pairing your buddy with a townie, lynching the townie first, then changing your read on your buddy. It has been overdone to death.

[Scatterplot]

THAT'S WHAT HE'S DOING TO US AND I'M CALLING HIM ON IT

and you're saying that my calling him on it is scummy.

--P

[Wisdom]

How is he doing that to you when he's voting Phantom and not you?