In post 4124, Marquis wrote:sure, my vote pattern is fully possible as a bus. in the same way snarky's towntells were fully possible as a result of coaching.
you're not analyzing players or determining alignments. you're looking for actions that could be construed to fit a predetermined read, and selectively applying loopholes that fit the narrative you want to sell.
like we're repeating the same pattern of buying into this for whatever dumb reason on me this time and being :OH NO: when they inevitably flip town
Oh bullshit. Snarky never town told like ever.I was wrong there though.
You're trying to fit narrative here.
You and I BOTH know that piegyn should not be meta reading me after the shitstorm that is FF7. He was all, Titus is 100% scum their and I was town. My reads were wrong there too.
I'm not pie and I still have only a very vague idea (nice how you can just throw game names out without detailing what they mean or what happened!) of what went on there but. We've already addressed FF7 multiple times before, so I'll quote the most visible time in my ISO.
In post 866, Courier New wrote:Great! You're finally starting to understand how being a team player works!
How to avoid avoiding the issue: the post.
In case you misinterpreted it, this was a snarky response to the end of Stairway's 865 ("OK so IIRC, Courier makes a case against us and doesn't vote us until someone else does first. I think I understand that.").
I'd already said I wanted to discuss with Pie whether a Stairway vote would work for her, because she was more adamant on our existing Nether scumread and vote than I was - she said yes, but that her only reservations came from an incident in FF7 where town-Titus started up some sort of exhausting multipage argument because Pie was talking about her meta from a previous scumgame and linked it, and Titus was talking about her meta from a different previous towngame and linked it - basically I think the gist was Titus hard-scumread Pie there for what Titus thought was Pie saying Titus flipped scum in a previous game where Titus was actually town, and Titus wouldn't see what the miscommunication was. (There was also a lot of :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: usage in the recollection.)
I didn't exactly think that was the same thing as the particular brand of stubbornness/obtuseness I saw matching between here and previous scumgames, so I went with the vote anyway.
Responding to the rest of 865 ("That is called cherry picking. If you're going to do something like that at least have the decency to post at least 3 games for crying out loud.") - I had HU2, and Wisdom had Touhou/Makai Mix. At the time of your post that was two, but with Signs&Void your three will soon be all here. Please be prepared to pursue a different defense.
And for Snarky towntelling, Anti and Nacho and Tammy and I all brought up MULTIPLE posts of his, instances where he said something that made absolutely no sense in a situation with him knowing Ranger/ika was scum who'd just been lynched. And you were the one who repeatedly rebutted these towntell references with "but that could be coaching!" "invalid because coaching!"
There was a whole discussion on this. It was stupid af. Of fucking course you can coach anything; of course it's universally applicable, but that doesn't mean it happened.
Of course I COULD HAVE bussed Vamp over multiple days and with that as my sole focus with tens of posts screaming at everyone to stop lynching obvious town and bringing up reasons why Vamp should finally be lynched, of course Vamp COULD HAVE attacked me like that (in the post Nether quoted) as a scumpartner, but when you invalidate heaps of town evidence because there's a small possibility otherwise and that small possibility opens up the way for your convoluted read to work, that's not legitimately reading or analyzing players at all. The way you're playing this is like a freaking witch trial.
Please do me a favor, show me where did you bring up SnarkySnowman's towntells? I honestly don't remember there were any. I participated in his mislynch as well which makes me sad especially if I missed something ><
In post 2558, Antihero wrote:do me a favor and find an instance of newbscum saying they don't think their partner is going to flip scum AFTER THE HAMMER
Scum have daychat most likely given my hood(s) do.
ok new assignment: find an instance where a newbie was coached via daytalk to do something ridiculously site meta breaking and diabolically genius.
go!
In post 2585, Marquis wrote:personally i think too many people underestimate town's ability to look like scum through select posts especially for newer players, whereas when town towntells like snarky did after numbers' selfhammer, the vast majority of the time it indicates town
that was kinda wordy but basically this is me once again expressing my opinion that so many people focus on theory scumhunting that they don't really know how to look at the town side of things
also titus saying "towntell doesn't apply because he could've been coached to make an instant surprised post" is just another lolOK titus thing
ftr i could've hammered this wagon multiple times over because i was that annoyed with this day in general but i'm glad i didn't because the things anti's reminding me of ring town af
Going to sleep now.
Right now I'm back to thinking Titus is scum.
That "'Never lynch Nether' => Marquis killed Spiffeh" line of reasoning looked really weird... like it was actually one of
her
reasons to kill him.
Reminder for myself: gotta re-read the part where I initially started scumreading Marquis D1 to learn why. I don't remember really.
In post 2585, Marquis wrote:personally i think too many people underestimate town's ability to look like scum through select posts especially for newer players, whereas when town towntells like snarky did after numbers' selfhammer, the vast majority of the time it indicates town
that was kinda wordy but basically this is me once again expressing my opinion that so many people focus on theory scumhunting that they don't really know how to look at the town side of things
also titus saying "towntell doesn't apply because he could've been coached to make an instant surprised post" is just another lolOK titus thing
ftr i could've hammered this wagon multiple times over because i was that annoyed with this day in general but i'm glad i didn't because the things anti's reminding me of ring town af
If Snarky had posted that comment after a regular hammer, maybe I could give the benefit of the doubt.
Usually a town self-hammer comes equipped with a rant/rave/reason/fuckyou or something, since they know they are taking info away from town.
The quiet self-hammers are almost always scum.
I don't recall a Numbers rant/rave/reason, therefore not town.
Doubting the scumflip of a player after they pretty much claimed scum by actions down not seem like a town response.
A hammer on Numbers (who could still be town until the flip) by another player, and that Snarky doubt would still be there, and would make sense as real doubt about the wisdom of the hammer.
In post 2596, Antihero wrote:yes, someone who joined at the end of november would be familiar enough with that kind of thing to know that
also after thinking about PV again, i'm finding the "guilty" on him from LLD even sketchier now. it came at a time when everyone was ready to shut up and agree on vamp, so i could see it being used as a way to gain extra time for the two last scum, as after the PV mislynch we didn't even go to vamp again but LLD tried to follow up on a freaking DS lynch.
burden of proficiency logic makes me want to consider actually lynching LLD here over titus. but. they're both so freaking scummy
(13): hi im Yakko, Imperium, Marquis, DiamondSentinel, Lady Lambdadelta, Netherspite, PeregrineV, Void Protectorate, Vampirate, Stairway to the Abyss, Spiffeh, Super Dupondt Bros, Firebringer
(3): Stairway to the Abyss, Netherspite, DiamondSentinel
DiamondSentinel
(2): Lady Lambdadelta, Spiffeh
Spiffeh
(1): Marquis
Not Voting
(5): Imperium, PeregrineV, Vampirate, Super Dupondt Bros, Firebringer
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Day 4 will end in
(expired on 2016-01-23 22:02:15)
Still don't get why if LLD was the one to bring us that guilty, she decided to jump off the wagon and follow up on her DS scumread - if scum, serves purpose of getting off a guaranteed mislynch, while keeping up appearance of a DS scumread and lynch option possibility for latergame
(4): Spiffeh, DiamondSentinel, Super Dupondt Bros, Vampirate
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 5 ends in (expired on 2016-01-26 13:00:44).
I'm having a hard time seeing this as anything but LLD-scum finally agreeing to lynch Vamp in accordance with game flow - everyone else was for it - but then when Spiff jumped off and it looked less certain, like she took the opportunity to try and push other options.
Like every single time she was pushing the wrong thing, and I don't really think as town she really has this much confidence in a scumread when the rest of the game things have been unsure for her. The confidence now in her read on me (she was townreading me hard earlier apparently, but still pushing super hard for Fire to implode me, despite it being lategame with 2 scum alive!) doesn't jive with how things have been turning out for her reads.
I think I want to go for this today instead, because while Titus is pinging super hard and her analysis makes no sense and is clearly biased with premeditated reads, unfortunately I can envision a scenario where she does that as town just because she's Titus. Whereas on the other hand LLD isn't insane, she's not a bad player as town and she's definitely a very capable scum player, and I think I've been giving her a free pass this game on the basis of ~emotion~ and ~anger~ (which I've already mentioned sounds fake at times and which I already know she's apt to do as either alignment).
Wow that's some serious fucking revisionist history.
I was lynching Vamp until we had the idea about giving the Cop role to someone suspicious (ANOTHER GOOD IDEA I SUGGESTED, WOW) and I suggested we force it onto Vampirate. In the end, we chose to put it on Nether, which was fine and we lynched Vampirate.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
But this is good. People will see that your fucking crusade on Titus is nothing more than effort trying to get a mislynch. You got impatient and worried, and you made a mistake.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
In post 3620, Netherspite wrote:The problem with Titus being scum is me not dying despite we arranged 2 receivers visiting me and I claimed Titus as my target in the hood.
However it could be done for WIFOM purposes.
In post 3621, Netherspite wrote:Spiffeh kill looks more like someone from outside the hood decided to kill him.
That's WIFOMy again though.
In post 3622, Marquis wrote:Presuming you're town, you're still an easy mislynch. Killing obvtown receiver Spiffeh still goes a great deal toward playing the long game which was what the D1 Numbers bus indicates a mentality toward.
In post 3624, Netherspite wrote:So you think they would sacrifice Titus in case I'd really target her? That's possible but SDB was more or less universal scumread before the guilty result. Wouldn't that be too risky?
Because she's a cocky person who thinks she can control everything, and probably believed that you were doing that to create WIFOM and that you would target Marquis anyway?
In post 3629, Netherspite wrote:Now that you say that I feel myself stupid for not thinking more deeply ><
- which in hindsight looks like LLD was setting up for a building Titus scumread and future lynch.
HOWEVER. today, she goes into this with a scumread on me. why? because I indicated that if Titus were to flip town, my next best choice for scum would be LLD.
In post 3772, Marquis wrote:Titus I hope you know I'm dead set on lynching you today (for a variety of reasons, some being that this whole interaction with nether comes off with your mindset not sounding very genuine, and also because the simpler explanation for ika reacting differently to to you this game seems to be a result of stilted scumpartner interaction attempts). If you're not scum, it's between DS and LLD tomorrow, so please try to put your energy toward analyzing that dichotomy instead.
I've been ultra fucking blind that's such a fucking scum claim.
He is talking like he knows Titus will flip town, and is chaining into my lynch after.
That's why he wants it done so fast.
He's scum, I'm the final mislynch.
He wants to lynch titus, kill Nether, lynch me.
Holy fucking hell I see it now.
Looking back on this it's susp. as fuck that this whole "read reversal" came after Nether and I developed stronger townreads on each other after I'd been scumreading him most of the game - LLD as scum NEEDED to find a reason to destroy these townreads because everything indicated that in the case of a Titus mislynch and a LYLO with her and 2 of me/Nether/DS, she'd lose:
- I'm townreading Nether and DS hard
- Nether's townreading DS hard and was "feeling better" about me
- not sure where DS's read on her was at the time, but there was certainly foreboding animosity there
The whole thing from her doesn't read genuine at all, but rather convenient (using "why are you rushing this?" as a primary lead-in to suddenly try and break townreads and throw the day's lynch into contention) and combined with the conveniently inaccurate reads+wagon positioning I really really really don't think she can actually believe she's 100% right here.
Like, I tried to stop you from rushing down the day PRECISELY BECAUSE I wanted the chance to get new reads, and reset my mind a little from preconceptions.
It seems you're encouraging people to stick to the status quo, which suits you because the status quo would have made you win.
That's when I realized you were scum and it all fit. That's why I'm pushing for so much discussion.
That's fucking town 101 motivation.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
Nether and DS, can you reread the sections around where LLD flipped out and around on me and tell me if you see what I'm seeing? Because now that I'm looking back into the whole thing again, it doesn't look like a real eureka moment like what she probably wanted to sell it as, just an scum push made out of necessity, caused by her being the odd one out after a Titus lynch.
Like she HAS to do this now or else tomorrow, regardless of who was left alive, I'd definitely vote for her and the risk of DS and Nether voting her was too high to just go into a Titus lynch without a fight. Then with my lynch despite me being generally accepted town, she'd be able to keep Titus in LYLO, because Titus would definitely be easier to mislynch then, especially after I'd have gone and flipped town while having Titus as my #1 preferred lynch and scumread.
Nether and DS, can you reread the sections around where LLD flipped out and around on me and tell me if you see what I'm seeing? Because now that I'm looking back into the whole thing again, it doesn't look like a real eureka moment like what she probably wanted to sell it as, just an scum push made out of necessity, caused by her being the odd one out after a Titus lynch.
Like she HAS to do this now or else tomorrow, regardless of who was left alive, I'd definitely vote for her and the risk of DS and Nether voting her was too high to just go into a Titus lynch without a fight. Then with my lynch
despite me being generally accepted town
, she'd be able to keep Titus in LYLO, because Titus would definitely be easier to mislynch then, especially after I'd have gone and flipped town while having Titus as my #1 preferred lynch and scumread.
ENCOURAGING.
THE
STATUS.
QUO.
LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
lol if i'm your "100% scum" pick for sure why are you so concerned with having to prove me wrong rather than just scum. like now it just looks like you're mad at me scumreading you over titus, when if you actually believed your "reads" it's more likely you'd just dismiss me than attempting to explain yourself. it's like you're still trying to make yourself look good for later, anticipating my townflip.
but is the game going to end today after all? oh no! you're in danger :(
In post 4144, Marquis wrote:lol if i'm your "100% scum" pick for sure why are you so concerned with having to prove me wrong rather than just scum. like now it just looks like you're mad at me scumreading you over titus, when if you actually believed your "reads" it's more likely you'd just dismiss me than attempting to explain yourself. it's like you're still trying to make yourself look good for later, anticipating my townflip.
but is the game going to end today after all? oh no! you're in danger
No one is gonna fucking lynch you tomorrow, asshole.
That's why I'm pushing so hard today.
I don't trust these assclowns to lynch you when I flip town, or when Titus flips town.
Otherwise, I'd fucking let it all ride and watch you fucking burn for being such a cocky arrogant dickweed.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
