Machina Mafia (Game over!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I highly encourage you both to ask me any kinds of questions like these you want answered, concerning my motivations.

It helps me 2 ways. 1) It helps you see that I am infact town, and shed some of the paranoia.
2) It helps me see what kinds of things concern you, and whether you're simply fabricating kind of meaningless questions, or whether your concerns are valid. Essentially, when you stare into me, the cat stares back at mew.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Acually, question 3, since this is bugging the shit out of me:

Nether, what is your motivation for saying "If you quicklynch me, there's nothing I can do about it."?

Titus, what is your motivation in dignifying that with an automated, obvious response?

[Titus]

@LLD, See Steven Universe (large theme) for me and ika being scum together. Ika has had this, I'm not going to bother scumhunting for awhile as scum. Like he doesn't even try as normal group scum. Yet, there has to be enough progress in the game to see if ika is avoiding contribution or IRL. Ika always votes AND pushes me as town. Once it became clear ika had no push, it was akin to a cop guilty.

We discussed in the hood rereading the game. If Nether is scum, I forced his hand to avoid killing you, by suggesting Nether cop himself. So it may appear automated but it's a repetition of a discussion that was already had.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and the 3rd question?

[Titus]

OK, which question? You had quite a few in your recent posting and it's hard to tell which questions were for whom.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Acually, question 3, since this is bugging the shit out of me:

Nether, what is your motivation for saying "If you quicklynch me, there's nothing I can do about it."?

Titus, what is your motivation in dignifying that with an automated, obvious response?

[Titus]

Last paragraph of my prior post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

??/??????????

What?

How does that in any fucking way have anything to do with

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not quicklynching here.

While I think Marquis was wrong, this is Lylo and I do need to reread.

THIS SHIT?

HOW DOES THAT COMPUTE, TITUS I'M FUCKING BROKEN

[Titus]

Nether and I discussed in the hood not quick lynching and rereading and what we wanted each other to look for. I was conveying the conclusion.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm tilted.

I'm super tilted.

Nothing makes sense and you're not helping, god why do you make me suffer so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

OK BUT LIKE

WHY IS THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING?

LIKE, TAKE A REAL LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK YOURSELF

"HMM, WAS I GOING TO QUICK LYNCH ANYONE TODAY ANYWAY?"

OR IS THIS CONVERSATION TOPIC WE HAD LITERALLY JUST PLACATION?

LIKE, WHAT MOTIVATION DO YOU HAVE TO EVEN DISCUSS THAT, TITUS? WE BOTH ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS YESTERDAY, AND TOWNIES GENERALLY DON'T FUCKING QUICKLYNCH IN LYLO UNLESS THEY'RE MOORONS.

ARE YOU A MORON TITUS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and further, like, what is the motivation for them publically talking about it again, after talking about it in the QT?

Like, so I can see it? are you trying to convince me you're town in this fashion?

[Titus]

If a receiver targets them but gets no result. there can be blocks, sure, but it's still be more likely that it was a lie than that.

What would prevent a scum to claim being a receiver and having no result on other claimed sensor/emitter D2 to achieve a mislynch?
They can always later say "oh I must have been roleblocked then"

scum receivers can claim being a PR to make town waste their receivers' night action

We are not worried about this. We expect there to be no more than four or five sensors and emitters, with many more receivers. Even if one scum falsely claimed to be one, it is probable that all the real ones will be targeted anyway by multiple receivers each. Scum would not benefit from this, and the false claiming scum would inevitably become conspicuous by never giving any results. On the contrary, receivers are far more likely to waste their actions if we don't claim, and sensors are more likely to be unheard if we don't claim.

Why are you even assuming there are less sensors/emitters than receivers?

• scum on the other hand will know who their receivers should target to get valuable information for hunting the machinist

What information would that be? We cannot think how any sensor results would directly lead to the Grand Machinist being exposed.

I meant that scum will know who really is a sensor/emitter and won't target fake sensors/emitters wasting their receivers' actions. They will certainly benefit from the night action.
It may help finding the Grand Machinist in case targeted sensor will out him by his night action.

Yeah, I'm getting a scum-read on snarky now that I read his iso.

VOTE: Snarky

Also, please don't think of this as an OMGUS. His reasoning behind it (using unfinished metagame) sucks.

If there was a Jester possible I'd be sure you are one.

Why did you make this post about being roleblocked Nether?

[Titus]

OK BUT LIKE

WHY IS THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING?

LIKE, TAKE A REAL LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK YOURSELF

"HMM, WAS I GOING TO QUICK LYNCH ANYONE TODAY ANYWAY?"

OR IS THIS CONVERSATION TOPIC WE HAD LITERALLY JUST PLACATION?

LIKE, WHAT MOTIVATION DO YOU HAVE TO EVEN DISCUSS THAT, TITUS? WE BOTH ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS YESTERDAY, AND TOWNIES GENERALLY DON'T FUCKING QUICKLYNCH IN LYLO UNLESS THEY'RE MOORONS.

ARE YOU A MORON TITUS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING

and further, like, what is the motivation for them publically talking about it again, after talking about it in the QT?

Like, so I can see it? are you trying to convince me you're town in this fashion?

Full disclosure. Noether's responses looked rather town actually, unless he already planned to murder DS.

So either a) he's scum and I forced him to make a suboptimal move by talking to him

Or you are upset and raging that I am rereading the thread.

Seriously, calm the fuck down if you're town. You are not helping me. If you're town, trust that I will reach the same conclusion on reread.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

of course he fucking already planned to murder DS, dude.

Think about it.

Not killing DS means a cop result exists, and sure he ccan just kill whoever he targets with the cop

but....

if anyone but DS dies, whichever one of you or me is still alive is confirmed town.

So maybe he like, kills you and tries to get me to lynch DS?

But that's just an untenable situation.

He more or less HAS to kill DS.

BTW, you said you wanted him to target himself with the cop?

I would like to direct your attention to the rules

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You cannot target yourself

[Titus]

OK, I should that. I think in my brain that it didn't really count as targeting himself BC he wouldn't get the results.

@Nether, who did you target?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is why "automated repetition of a conversation we already had" is fucking bad, ebcause one of you is scum and is obviously going to do whatever they can. There's no more "how will this make me look later". The name of the game for scum is "convince one person you are town and/or convince one person someone else is scum".

[Titus]

No. This dialogue is why it was good. If I hadn't given a robotic answer, you would have not know what happened or HOW to check us out. You'd never make comments like 4216 if you were not aware of the conversation we had last night.

[Netherspite]

Nether, can you ask the mod on how... flexible they will be in you telling me what kinds of things Titus has said in those neighbourhoods over the nights? Like, whether you can basically copy and paste, post word for word, paraphrase, or whether you have to like, be vague?

I will ask.

1)We all know that, had Nether chosen to target anyone but SDB the night he investigated him, this game would likely be over. (Exceptions being Spiffeh or DS, but those were never options on his pallette and would have gotten Nether lynched, so)

The questions I have for you both on this subject:

We know it benefits Nether!scum to target SDB, and kill one of the receivers, because if gives him the most possible outs, and doesn't give town an innocent result (which would have been game over for the scum). The question is, is there any real world where Nether!town makes that play? Nether was adamant earlier that he made a mistake. He even went as far to suggest he had

locked in an investigation on me, and then changed it

. Nether, I'd like to give you a chance to explain what made you make these choices. Why change off of me? Why investigate SDB? Titus, I'd like to hear whether you think there exists any world where this kind of explination and action can really come from town.

At the moment I was choosing my target, my goals were:
1) attempt to find scum with my copping
2) threat someone with investigation to force them targeting the receiver that will receive me (there was only 1 claimed receiver to be receiving me both in the game thread and in the hood; I was unlikely NK target because I'm easier to mislynch)
So I claimed to have targeted Marquis in the game thread and Titus in the hood to threat them.
And after that I've tried to guess who's scum. I wish I kept my target at LLD because this would make the game much easier by revealing the alignment of one of the more mysterious players in the game but well, I just decided to go for more probable scum... It was a mistake imo but it's done.

2) We all know Titus' interactions with Ika day 1 were odd, to say the least. My perspective on them, up until this point, has been that this was a function of Ika being scum, and Titus not knowing how to really handle the dissonance between wanting to work with Ika, and seeing how Ika was posting.

My questions to you are this:

Is there a world where Ika and Titus don't plan their interactions beforehand in the scum qt, should they be scum together? Is it more likely these two players, who are

known to have the ability to solidly read each other, or at least decently

would not plan something to fake, or just hard bus one another? For Titus, I would like an explination of what was going through your mind during the day 1 wagon, what your feelings on Ika were, what drove your actions, what created that awkwardness. For Nether, I would like your opinion on whether it is possible that Ika and Titus would be so unprepared going into that day, ESPECIALLY day 1, and whether this was some kind of failed "half-bus".

I know that:
1) ika doesn't like to play scum;
2) Titus is excited to play scum together with ika;
So I think it's possible that she was disappointed by him not playing.
I also consider it possible for them to enter D1 without planning if ika decided to not play.

Acually, question 3, since this is bugging the shit out of me:

Nether, what is your motivation for saying "If you quicklynch me, there's nothing I can do about it."?

Thinking of it retrospectively I think I'm saying such things often. I'm just expressing my thoughts and only later I think that it may look scummy.
After that I'm becoming a bit angered and think 'why should I even bother how I look if I'm genuinely expressing my thoughts?'
Well, it begins to be self-metaing which has no point.

And yes, it was discussed in the hood during the night.

@LLD, See Steven Universe (large theme) for me and ika being scum together. Ika has had this, I'm not going to bother scumhunting for awhile as scum. Like he doesn't even try as normal group scum. Yet, there has to be enough progress in the game to see if ika is avoiding contribution or IRL. Ika always votes AND pushes me as town. Once it became clear ika had no push, it was akin to a cop guilty.

Btw you made me remember that I still don't get why you switched your vote to Marquis close the end of the day while you had a "cop guilty" on ika.

We discussed in the hood rereading the game. If Nether is scum, I forced his hand to avoid killing you, by suggesting Nether cop himself. So it may appear automated but it's a repetition of a discussion that was already had.

Oh that's how you represent it.
You suggested the idea of me targeting myself and after that I realized it was the only way for my ability to have a slight chance to be useful. It would require both me and DS staying alive. In that case I'd be cleared and we'd likely already win the game.
So I definitely decided to go for it. Not successfully, but I'll address that later.

If a receiver targets them but gets no result. there can be blocks, sure, but it's still be more likely that it was a lie than that.

What would prevent a scum to claim being a receiver and having no result on other claimed sensor/emitter D2 to achieve a mislynch?
They can always later say "oh I must have been roleblocked then"

Why did you make this post about being roleblocked Nether?

I was thinking that scum receiver claiming to be a PR would be useful for the scum. They could deceive town receivers into receiving them instead of PRs and later just say "I was roleblocked, that's why you had no signal".
Later I realized the only roleblock mechanic in the game was Marquis' one.

of course he fucking already planned to murder DS, dude.

Think about it.

Not killing DS means a cop result exists, and sure he ccan just kill whoever he targets with the cop

but....

if anyone but DS dies, whichever one of you or me is still alive is confirmed town.

?!
A result would not make scum!me lose the game.
I'd confirm one town and that's all.

OK, I should that. I think in my brain that it didn't really count as targeting himself BC he wouldn't get the results.

@Nether, who did you target?

I submitted an investigation on myself but the Mod said that I can't do that.
So I just investigated DS. It served no purpose but I just felt I have to use the ability somehow.

@LLD

Now my questions:
What exactly were you trying to learn with these 3 questions?
What did my answers change in your opinion on the game?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you what I'm trying to learn. My goal is to endevour to learn the motivations behind some of the more impactful actions you've both taken this game, and use that to get a better idea of which of you two is scum.

Also, what I've learned is that you don't know how to read. It's not the cop result, or the night kill that kills you, it's this.

Titus and LLD scum both are required to kill DS.

DS!scum is required to kill you.

You can't kill yourself, so if DS doesn't die, along with the result that will provide, it makes you very obviously scum.

You can claim "oh people might kill different things for WIFOM" but literally, DS was a forced kill for Titus or I, and since

DS couldn't know who you were targetting, he would have been forced to kill YOU

.

Which means the literal only kill you could make that wouldn't instantly make you obvious scum would be DS.

Understand now?

[Netherspite]

I understand this logic but I still believe you underrate the WIFOM.
I'd think twice before making so obvious conclusions.
Anyway, your logic says that any scum!one of us was forced to kill DS (except DS himself ofc). What does that give us even if we exclude the WIFOM?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I understand this logic but I still believe you underrate the WIFOM.
I'd think twice before making so obvious conclusions.
Anyway, your logic says that any scum!one of us was forced to kill DS (except DS himself ofc). What does that give us even if we exclude the WIFOM?

The comment was in reference to Titus' post, claiming that she was responsible for DS being the kill last night, because she some how made you target yourself.

My response to that was "any scum already had planned to kill DS this night, almost certainly, and btw also you can't target yourself per the rules what the fuck are you smoking titus"

In terms of actual "does this knowledge help us find out who scum is?" it's.... not amazingly helpful, but watching both your reactions to the logic gives me things to think on.

I need new content, fresh content, to be confident in my read, because right now I'm battling against 7 prior days of bias and it's really hard.

[Netherspite]

I won't be posting much content before I'll re-read the game.
I really need that because I've already forgot half of the events in the game.