Micro 576 - Word Sneak Mafia 2: Even Sneakier! (Game Over)

[BNL]

Doesn't help that she's jumped on literally every single wagon that's gained any traction today, which is scummy as fuck,

I was leading those wagons

- I didn't jump on them at all! The wagons gained traction because of the people who followed me onto them.

You definitely didn't lead the Davsto wagon

[Flubbernugget]

catching up

but you guys have seriously ruined the word sneak part of this game for me

[Flubbernugget]

Yeah, possible Flubscum.
ISO is meh. Like he's not actively scumhunting.

put your vote where your mouth is

oh wait

[Flubbernugget]

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

aristo isn't a newbie

[Flubbernugget]

toastie, you're still pegging marbles as town?

Slight townlean, I think.

My money's on a scumteam of lane/Flubber or GL/Flubber.

Wait what
Since when were you scumreading Flubbernugget, and why?

I like how this is a better scum case than the circle jerk between rc and lillith

I still think aristo is a better wagon. He's kiiiinda taking stances now but I'm not impressed

[lane0168]

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

Lol I just read Postie say they are leading all the wagons. And explicitly not jumping on wagons.

Its weird how she also thinks of herself as wagon hopping.

Thats all I have the energy to say today

[GuiltyLion]

The only players I've called scum so far are you and BNL (now a townlean).

Postie - why did you reverse your read from BNL scum to BNL town? Is it purely because of the speed of his wagon? Because I see all-town fast wagons happen all the time, especially when someone does something as scummy as BNL did.

[GuiltyLion]

also I generally agree with H&H that Postie's push on Lane is terrible, Lane looks extremely town to me after I pushed him over his Ari push in the beginning.

I would like an explanation from Postie as to why she thinks I'm scum and why she reversed her push on BNL.

BNL is still my primary scumread, and he dodged my question about Ari.

BNL, what is your read on Ari? And can you try to explain why it was null halfway into D1 when Ari had hit L-1 and was majorly scumread by a number of players

If Postie is town here I wouldn't rule out scum!H&H

[Postie]

Wait what
Since when were you scumreading Flubbernugget, and why?

I would like an explanation from Postie as to why she thinks I'm scum and why she reversed her push on BNL.

Those are less scumreads and more nullreads that could be scum based on the interactions between the players I've got as potential scum from PoE.

K. Here's where I'm at:

Town: H&H, TheCow, Davsto
Null, but shouldn't be too hard to figure out: BNL
Complete null: GL, Aristo, Flubber, lane

I have way too many null reads.
My gut still says town on Aristo but lilith made some good points.

I think I might have a gut townlean on Flubber now though, so idk anymore.

[Postie]

Doesn't help that she's jumped on literally every single wagon that's gained any traction today, which is scummy as fuck,

I was leading those wagons

- I didn't jump on them at all! The wagons gained traction because of the people who followed me onto them.

You definitely didn't lead the Davsto wagon

Oh, yeah, you're right. It just seemed to have a lot of traction very suddenly and I didn't check the vote count. You and Aristo were already on it. My bad.

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

aristo isn't a newbie

I wasn't a newbie in Newbie 1664 either.

Lol I just read Postie say they are leading all the wagons. And explicitly not jumping on wagons.

Its weird how she also thinks of herself as wagon hopping.

Thats all I have the energy to say today

What?

[Postie]

Postie - why did you reverse your read from BNL scum to BNL town? Is it purely because of the speed of his wagon? Because I see all-town fast wagons happen all the time, especially when someone does something as scummy as BNL did.

That's the problem though; I think the argument people kept using for BNL being scum is complete bullshit and three of you are supporting it. I don't understand how that's possible.

If Postie is town here I wouldn't rule out scum!H&H

I guarantee you H&H is town this game.

[GuiltyLion]

I think the argument people kept using for BNL being scum is complete bullshit and three of you are supporting it. I don't understand how that's possible.

That's funny, because I think BNL's explanation is bullshit.

I thought the second half of the sentence was irrelevant to what I perceived to be a self-contradiction, so I snipped it.

I haven't been paying much attention to him this game, so I am currently null on him. I retract my scumpoint on him for the perceived self-contradiction, as I realised I failed to see the context of the quote.

first he thought the second half was irrelevant, now he says he failed to see the context.

At the

very least

he's not reading and not paying attention the game.
At worst he's caught scum trying to explain an egregious misrep.

Like in what world does town!BNL quote the whole part of that sentence, then think, "hmm, that part that looks like a joke is irrelevant, let me just intentionally snip that part so my point is clear"?

Regarding your H&H guarantee, I've seen scum!RC write up similar cases before. Not sure why you're townreading them so strongly.

[Postie]

At the

very least

he's not reading and not paying attention the game.

This is how I'm reading the situation. I'll take another look though.

Regarding your H&H guarantee, I've seen scum!RC write up similar cases before. Not sure why you're townreading them so strongly.

Reading that case, I'm even more confident in my read. I could explain why I'm so sure, but I don't know if I want to narrow their already slim chances of making it through N1. Since I probably have the cop on me tonight and scum know the results, I'm hoping I'll be killed instead and they can get their head in the game tomorrow.

[Postie]

Oh my god I'm so sorry I take that guarantee back! I only just ran the numbers through my spreadsheet and the result was definitely not what I was expecting. If I'd have gotten a town result I would have considered them confirmed town, because I haven't ever gotten a town result on RC and had it be wrong, but the results are inconclusive as of yet. My calculations are technically giving me a Mafia result right now, but I consider them inconclusive because that's not at all uncommon for day 1. When I get a Mafia result, I only consider it conclusive from around day 3 onwards, and even then I have to check that certain NAI factors aren't inflating RC's "score".

Completely disregard my townread for the moment.

[lane0168]

Warming to the idea of an Aristo or lane lynch. The BNL-was-misrepping argument is stupid. I'd prefer lane over Aristo though because Aristo's townslips remind me of when I kept townslipping in Newbie 1664 and Frozen Angel was all "OMG stop making fake townslips!" when really I was just an idiot.

VOTE: lane

Yeah, I'm wagon hopping again. Deal with it.

Lol what? Can you run my numbers?

[Postie]

Sorry if that made no sense lol. I have a spreadsheet full of data on RC that I use to read him. He has certain things he always does as scum but barely ever as town.

[lane0168]

Well let's see it. What are they?

[Postie]

I'm not telling anyone what they are, for obvious reasons.

[lane0168]

Well then it doesn't really mean shit to us now does it?

[Postie]

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

[BNL]

I thought the second half of the sentence was irrelevant to what I perceived to be a self-contradiction, so I snipped it.

I haven't been paying much attention to him this game, so I am currently null on him. I retract my scumpoint on him for the perceived self-contradiction, as I realised I failed to see the context of the quote.

first he thought the second half was irrelevant, now he says he failed to see the context.

No. 473 was me explaining why I snipped the quote

at the point which snipped the quote

, while 475 is

after I realised that what I had perceived to be a self-contradiction earlier was actually a joke

.

[BNL]

BNL is still my primary scumread, and he dodged my question about Ari.

BNL, what is your read on Ari? And can you try to explain why it was null halfway into D1 when Ari had hit L-1 and was majorly scumread by a number of players

Are you referring to the question in #525? I didn't answer it because I thought it was a rhetorical question.

As for now, I'm still undecided on Ari. And the main reason I've not been paying much attention to Ari is because I was paying more attention elsewhere.

[Postie]

Great, now I'm scumreading H&H.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

K can I pleas just direct the cop and can we please just have the cop check Postie N1?
I'm probably not really ready to play with her at this point and I'm getting way too stuck on the slot. I'm not going to be able to play this game in any real capacity unless I can just ignore trying to sort her.
Sorry for this given that I said that you probably wouldn't get cop checked with me in the game but I just can't really play this game right now any other way.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.

Also, take a look at lilith's ISO from Wordsneak 1 (it won't let me link it properly, so you can have it in code tags):

Code: Select all

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=7531279&user_select[]=26733#p7531279

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I just get this horrible feeling that RC is telling her what to write.

Arghhhh. I need some time to make sense of H&H's ISO.

[Halos and Horns]

Sorry, we were supposed to talk about the game but we ended up talking about other stuff instead and she's gone to bed now but I'll make a little post.

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I mean this is a way to look at it, but keep in mind that in wordsneak 1 she was alone and this time around we've been talking about this game constantly on skype so I'd think that it would be obvious that her readposts that she puts in thread would be a lot more fleshed out and organized.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.
I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

I feel like you should know that me having issues dealing with your slot goes past paranoia.

I was not kidding when I said that I probably wasn't ready to play with you again, and I feel like you should at least somewhat understand the way I'm feeling here.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

Yeah, but when you were scum on D1 you voteparked your partner and for the rest of the game you just followed me onto bandwagons.
I agree that you aggressively leading wagons is a change of pace from your play in 558, but I disagree strongly with your idea that I should treat 558 like your standard play.
It's not the vote hopping itself it's that the votes are poorly substantiated, your Aristo read is bonkers, and your positions seem opportunistic.

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

Do you consider yourself an easy mislynch?

I don't think you are, and I think you particularly not an easy mislynch in this game where you are generally townread.

I'm not necessarily known for going after the safest targets as scum but I would absolutely not be targeting you as either a safe mislynch nor to avoid getting 'in trouble' for it.

In fact, you can guarantee that if I were scum I would do my best to keep you alive to endgame or maybe kill you before LyLo so I could get some measure of revenge for 558. Me and Lilith discussed that when we originally signed up for the game actually.


So, you are claiming to have some sort of spreadsheet that can fairly accurately determine my alignment.
How did you mix up the results on that and how did your entire read shift just because the results of your random spreadsheet
You were townreading me for the contrast between the BBT read in the newbie and my read on you here; what's changed about that?

At the very least, you must agree that your read change on our slot looks sketchy as fuck.

I mean I'm somewhat believing that such a thing would exist since you started talking about it before this game but your read progression on our slot doesn't make sense.

(and seriously? you've never even played with scum!RC before; if it weren't for the fact that I'd probably do BBT style for you if i played with you more I'd find that somewhat creepy)

[Postie]

Sorry, we were supposed to talk about the game but we ended up talking about other stuff instead and she's gone to bed now but I'll make a little post.

She struggles a lot more with getting reads on people and making detailed, analytical posts, whereas here...
Ugh, just look at 121, 462, and 545.
And she doesn't prod and question people the way she did in Wordsneak 1; she always seems to have very ordered and organised thoughts and know exactly what she's doing every time she posts.

I mean this is a way to look at it, but keep in mind that in wordsneak 1 she was alone and this time around we've been talking about this game constantly on skype so I'd think that it would be obvious that her readposts that she puts in thread would be a lot more fleshed out and organized.

That's true. I can maybe see it. Idk. The difference threw me.

That's page 4. It seems a little early to declare yourself "stuck" and get so worked up.
I'm also starting to feel like RC's paranoia of me is way overdone.
For example:

I feel like you should know that me having issues dealing with your slot goes past paranoia.

I was not kidding when I said that I probably wasn't ready to play with you again, and I feel like you should at least somewhat understand the way I'm feeling here.

Ah, sorry, maybe I underestimated how much trouble you'd have with me this game.

I feel like a lot of the things RC is pushing as reasons for me being scum are things he should know better than to scumread me for. Like the wagon hopping. Pretty much the only times I have not done this were as scum.

Yeah, but when you were scum on D1 you voteparked your partner and for the rest of the game you just followed me onto bandwagons.
I agree that you aggressively leading wagons is a change of pace from your play in 558, but I disagree strongly with your idea that I should treat 558 like your standard play.
It's not the vote hopping itself it's that the votes are poorly substantiated, your Aristo read is bonkers, and your positions seem opportunistic.

That makes more sense.

Well, yeah, but if I die or you're townreading me or whatever it might be something to consider when/if I get more conclusive results.
Unfortunately, one of the NAI factors I was talking about that could inflate his score might have something to do with me being alive. But if I'm dead I can't tell you what results I'm getting with me out of the game, so... this is an awkward situation.
I need to figure out if I buy that RC's case on me is genuine or whether I think he's looking for an easy mislynch that he can chalk up to paranoia and get away with.

Do you consider yourself an easy mislynch?

I don't think you are, and I think you particularly not an easy mislynch in this game where you are generally townread.

I'm not necessarily known for going after the safest targets as scum but I would absolutely not be targeting you as either a safe mislynch nor to avoid getting 'in trouble' for it.

Perhaps not, but the way you were pushing the Aristo/me-scumteam thing, it kinda felt like you were at least setting me up to be the lynch tomorrow, especially since you've considered both the possibility of me and Aristo being partners and me setting up fake associatives with Aristo. It's like no matter what Aristo flips as, you'll still want me lynched.
Plus, tunneling me D1 gives you an excuse not to look for scum elsewhere and is just generally really distracting for town.

So, you are claiming to have some sort of spreadsheet that can fairly accurately determine my alignment.
How did you mix up the results on that and how did your entire read shift just because the results of your random spreadsheet

I didn't mix up the results; I never checked in the first place. I just sort-of assumed you were town for various reasons and assumed my spreadsheet would give me a town result, and then when it didn't, I started getting paranoid and seeing everything as scummy. But like I said, it isn't even remotely reliable on day 1 and the results are basically worthless at this point.

You were townreading me for the contrast between the BBT read in the newbie and my read on you here; what's changed about that?

It was mainly gut and I do think I need to revisit that. I still think there's a difference.

(and seriously? you've never even played with scum!RC before; if it weren't for the fact that I'd probably do BBT style for you if i played with you more I'd find that somewhat creepy)

The spreadsheet? I mean, I never set out to look for tells or make one on them; I just noticed a pattern while metadiving you in another game, wondered if it applied to other games too, realised I needed to write stuff down, and then... bam! I'm really, really, sorry if it comes across as creepy.