Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[Jake from State Farm]

/confirm

[Jake from State Farm]

Post #19 and #21 is scum aligned. Discuss.

Not enough in those posts for anyone including yourself to know that unless...

[Jake from State Farm]

it's not natural. scum bussing within 5 pages is nearly unheard of. In fact, I'd say it's more against meta to defend your mafia buddies rather than bus them early on.

P-EDIT: whatever.

Nearly unheard of? Sorry I've heard of it and seen it and probably have done it myself before.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake from State Farm: where you at, bish? You're 1/3 of the reason I signed up. Come dance with me.

Been busy. I don't even remember how to play anymore so bare with me.

[Jake from State Farm]

it's a bad play, and if you've done it it probably sucked

I've seen scum double bus their partner day 1 & 2 and survive to win. Seen it more than once so thanks for your opinion but you are either just inexperienced or naive.

[Jake from State Farm]

Hey Jake. How are ya? Long time no see!

Sorry don't remember you but sup how you doing.

[Jake from State Farm]

At the end of page 4, got to run but the 2 people I hate the most right now are kill and farmer. Posts just rub me the wrong way.

Later.

[Jake from State Farm]

Who's your main account? I'm not buying you are "new" to the site given your reactions towards me. It definitely seems like you know me which is impossible since we've never played together.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah I barely remember anything about that game. Don't take it personally, I've had a shitty few months and basically alienated a bunch of people I play mafia with on another site and kind of just shut down. If it's not somebody I've played with a couple of times, I barely remember anyone. The only person I recognize here is maestro and it's only one game. The one where I think I pissed him off by swooping in and grabbing a piece of paper from the mod as my first post and thought he was scum lol

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok I really have to go to bed, got to be at work by 6:00 am.

[Jake from State Farm]

I like KTS's stubbornness as town
I don't like Dierfire's tone or his vote on KTS

Stubbornness is the way I get town read as scum. Just saying. It's how I get town read as town also. It can be faked. It's very easy to fake actually

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure. It doesn't look faked to me here.

Do you have any reads?

I am working on being a nice guy so I'll not give you my snarky answer.

Yes I do have reads, I shared them already before I went to bed last night. Fire and farmer I dislike atm

[Jake from State Farm]

Posts just rub me the wrong way.

[Jake from State Farm]

yeah my bad it was early. kill and farmer are who I meant

[Jake from State Farm]

explain why I am scum. Because me making a typo at 5 am doesn't make me scum and that's basically the only reason you voted me. If you are town, do better. if you are scum carry on

[Jake from State Farm]

explain why I am scum. Because me making a typo at 5 am doesn't make me scum and that's basically the only reason you voted me. If you are town, do better. if you are scum carry on

Yeah, this is scum.

Maestro, your gut is bad

why did you dodge my request? Please answer me

[Jake from State Farm]

Well confusing two people that were kind of 1v1 isn't exactly a typo.

what do you mean "that were kind of a 1v1"?

and yes it was a typo

[Jake from State Farm]

If so, I Haven't made it that far. End of page 4 I didn't see anything. I'll read more tonight

[Jake from State Farm]

No fire was the typo. Kill and farmer are the 2 people who's posts rubbed me the wrong way. I have no read at all on dier

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes shiro, the first posts were made around 10:20 pm (east coast time zone USA) the one after that was made in the 5 am hour.

Wisdom why are you dodging my question? If you are town I don't see motivation for it.

[Jake from State Farm]

dude jake you played with me at least twice under kushm4sta I think.

2 games, 2012 and 2014. I don't even remember the games let alone the people who I played with. Guess I'm getting old.

Btw 3 tips to tell if you are old.

1. Memory loss.

Aww shit I can't remember those other 2...

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure. It doesn't look faked to me here.

Going back to this. People have been legitimately fooled by fake stubbornness so please tell me how you are immune from being fooled? What about it doesn't look fake to you? Tell me what fake stubbornness looks like cause I'm pretty sure you (or anyone for that matter) can really tell the difference. Stubbornness is stubbornness and even scum can be stubborn and it still be genuine

[Jake from State Farm]

If that's the case you should roll dice to catch scum because nobody can tell the differences between town and scum things

Exactly, every town tell can be employed by both alignment and every scum tell can be committed by both town and scum. Yet you said you didn't think he was faking. I'm asking how YOU are able to tell the difference.

That's now 2 things you have avoided answering btw. The old me would death tunnel you into oblivion for this but I won't. I'll just add you to my prob scum pile for now.

I'm not voting anyone til I'm fully caught up.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't see how stubbornness is special. It can be read like everything else.

It can't though. Also if you felt this was true you would have answered my question you didn't though.

[Jake from State Farm]

You heard the guy, let's roll dices, scumhunting is impossible

Aww cmon bro. You have played Mafia before this game. you have helped lynched somebody only to be wrong and probably let scum live to the end and lose. Without even going through your games I'm pretty sure almost every experienced player has had this happen to them. Mislynches happen because townies do things that get misinterpreted as scummy behavior. Scum win because scum have manipulated townies into thinking they are town. As much as it sucks yes it's basically a crap shoot most of the time.

My point is though, you say you think his stubbornness isn't faked and when asked how you can tell the difference you balk at the opportunity to explain how you can tell the difference. That's a huge red flag Imo because townoes shouldn't be afraid to communicate their thoughts, especially when asked directly for them. It seems you are afraid to answer for some reason.

[Jake from State Farm]

Bussing is a great strategy in many different situations.
You're one of those rare VIs who thinks he's the best shit in the whole room, and I can tell.

I thought you were describing me for a second but once you said VI I knew you weren't

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes I can do stuff and I will when I have the time to do so. I'm not obligated to appease you or anyone else for that matter and I'm certainly not going to rush my catchup because somebody gets a little antsy. Im busy and I don't do heavy reading on my phone and unfortunately I haven't had much laptop time. I'll try my best to do it tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

Did I ask you if you liked passive aggressiveness?

Do you think I care if you like or dislike passive aggressiveness?

Hint both questions have the same answer. Starts with N and rhymes with Ho

[Jake from State Farm]

You were the one who came with the aggressive behavior towards me first. I give back what others dish out.

[Jake from State Farm]

I haven't taken anything personal

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not angry. Far from it actually. Giving it back to people who get aggressive for no reason is actually fun. I actually enjoy arguing as long as people don't cross the line and make it personal. So far you haven't so for that I thank you.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sounds like you and I are very similar. or at least how I used to be

[Jake from State Farm]

ok back to catching up.

Kill's post 141 is not very good. Like I don't get that at all from dire's posts.

Jake is making silly accusations against me which is p bad.

Actually this isn't true at all. I never accused you of anything. The only thing I did was say I hate you because your posts rub me the wrong way.

Killthestory is town
I don't like Dierfire either

You haven't been reading this game if you think kill is town. nothing he has posted looks remotely town and he's made at least 2 posts that are blatantly untrue. I hope you explain why you don't like dier at some point but somehow I doubt it. You seem to be all talk and no substance

I like KTS's stubbornness as town
I don't like Dierfire's tone or his vote on KTS

so up to this point I don't really see any stubbornness from kill. I do see some manipulation and a person who likes to push buttons (which isn't alignment indicative) and I also see a person who isn't really scum hunting (but you aren't either so...)

I agree with Shiro that masq's vla was weird, the reason he gives later that I happened to see doesn't do anything to make it seem less weird to me.

People don't V/LA to get away from pressure, that's null.

of course people do that. People also replace out to get away from pressure.

and this brings me to where I have basically been interacting with people.

Kill/Wisdom/Masq are good leads for scum. Farmer fell to 4th only because wasn't present during these pages. Will get to reading pages 8 to present a little later but for now I feel pretty good about this vote

vote: killthestory

[Jake from State Farm]

Kill/Wisdom/Masq are good leads for scum.

remember this when Jake flips scum. Rule of three says one of those are scum.

well good thing I won't flip scum

[Jake from State Farm]

So one person says no and you don't worry about it anymore? Uh ok

[Jake from State Farm]

@Wisdom

You should revote Masquarede and make him a valid wagon against the bleh wagons that exist.

No thanks, I prefer Jake

You prefer to lynch town? ok...

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure I am. My play is obv town and even my role pm says I am. You are either having a bad game or are scum yourself. Looking at your contributions thus far I'm leaning towards scum. You have not done anything helpful at all and you refuse to vote obv scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I think today's lunch should be killthestory. I don't see any genuine scum hunting from him, his only serious attack has been on the person who voted him first and he hasn't really provided any good reason why he's scum reading dier. It looks like just an omgus reaction and his attempt to vote dier just looked like mud slinging. He also said I made an accusation about him which is also false. He's not doing anything to progress the game and instead he's just trying to alienate as many people as he can.

Side note

Spoiler:

I don't care what he says but a new person to the site just doesn't call different people they supposedly never played with, bad players or imply they are bad players or even catch attitude with people in a way that looks like it has some bias to it. I get the need to want to try something new or hide to get people to treat you differently but at least be honest about it.

[Jake from State Farm]

If you turn out to be town, will you quit when I flip town? cause nothing about that post reads scummy

P.edit

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake
why is Wisdom scum or bad for refusing to vote "obvious scum" when there are like 11 other other people also not voting for "obvious scum"?

He's not scum for not voting kill, he's scum because he's not playing like a townie. He's avoiding answering questions from at least 2 people, he provides little to no actual substance, when asked to explain himself he does in as few words as possible, if he actually does it at all, he's not doing anything to progress the game and he's not even attempting to convince others to follow him.

[Jake from State Farm]

honestly have no idea what the fuck you're going on about. YOU TOLD HIM TO VOTE ME AND GOT BUTTHURT WHEN HE DIDN'T LAD LOL. There's lie 1.

I didn't get butt hurt when he didn't vote you. So that's another lie from you actually.

[Jake from State Farm]

Actually Jake, Wisdom has done more scumhunting than you. A lot more in fact, so... Where the fuck does that lead you?

He really hasn't. Just saying so and so is scum without providing reading isn't scum hunting, at least not my definition of it and that's basically what he's done all game. He has still refused to explain why any of his scum reads are what they are with reasons that actually are scummy.

P.edit - I'm not scum reading him for shot posts. Why are you misrepping me? I explained all of the reasons why I'm scum reading him and "he makes short posts" isn't one of them.

What I said is when asked to explain himself he does so in very few words,

if he actually does it at all

The bolded is the more egregious behavior. I've counted at least 4 times where he has refused to explain himself/answer questions. Scum tend to talk very little also so yes him being brief and providing no actual scummy reasoning for his reads is a very good reason to be scum reading him

[Jake from State Farm]

I didn't mean to misrep you. I just simplified your statement.
I think scum might post less often, but I don't think words per post is not a scumtell.
Not answering questions is a scumtell? In the right context it can be. This isn't the right context.

Agree to disagree ?

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm voting kts and trying to get others to vote him also, so I guess I'd rather a kts wagon. I do find it interesting that some people are getting worked up over my wisdom scum read.

[Jake from State Farm]

I enjoy Wisdom's sparse style and I may try to emulate it in my next town game.

I wouldn't cause it's not very effective assuming he's town here.

[Jake from State Farm]

what does you being scum and being called scum have to do with how you would play as town?

[Jake from State Farm]

KTS was really opportunistic against Jake there

No, Jake is the one who was opportunistic on KTS. KTS is just seeing Jake being obvscum.

Uh no I wasn't.

[Jake from State Farm]

*shrug* You're lynching town, not me

Actually you are trying to lynch town

[Jake from State Farm]

According to him. Not according to everyone.

Captain obvious over here...

[Jake from State Farm]

You're cute, but no

Thanks I like to think I'm an attractive fellow. And yes. It's ok if you turn out to be town I'll take an apology post game though. That's pretty fair since you are suggesting others quit Mafia for being "wrong" about me when it's you who are wrong.

[Jake from State Farm]

But I can say now that Kill's vote on Jake looks bad and omgussy.

That would be his 2nd omgus vote of the game for those not paying attention

[Jake from State Farm]

Kts voted me cause either A. I'm wrong about wisdom and kts needs wisdom on his side or B. They are both scum and like kts said, it's better for scum to defend each other. Kts had no reason to vote me and the one thing he said about me was an outright lie.

[Jake from State Farm]

This was a bad game. Bad players. Didn't enjoy it.

Aww I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the game, but don't be so hard on yourself. It takes time to become a good player. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll get better. Keep your head up

[Jake from State Farm]

lol you specifically said he didn't vote obv scum. thats p damn butthurt my man

How is it butt hurt? I called him scum before that happened. I didn't throw a hissy fit or anything because he didn't vote him. I didn't react poorly or vote him out of spite. So no butt hurt but thanks for playing. No consolation prizes for you in this game. Actually if you play your cards right you could get a noose so stick around and let's see what happens.

[Jake from State Farm]

you didnt explain reasons first of all, you literally said that he was just not acting townie.

Sure I did. Did you not see this post?

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm running a half marathon tomorrow and have some things to do Sunday so I'll be fairly inactive this weekend. I'll try to check a couple of times but will just be skimming.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll disappear during the race obviously

[Jake from State Farm]

How the hell is it not well explained? It outlines in details my thoughts and why I think he is scum. It's certainly better explained than any of his or your posts.

[Jake from State Farm]

Unless I've missed some post wisdom hasn't even explained why he thinks I'm scum. I don't think he has explained why he is scum reading anyone of the people he is. You think he's explained better than me. Back it up. Link the posts. I'm sure you can't.

[Jake from State Farm]

Reading this again, it feels so fake.
Lots of people won't answer questions about their reads. Not responding to questions is what makes him scum?
I don't buy that.

I'm sorry you feel it's fake, I assure you regardless of alignment nothing I accuse people of is fake. As scum the best way to play convincingly is to accuse people of the same things you would if you were town. That's why despite hating playing as scum, my scum game is on point.

But guess what? I'm not scum reading him because he's not answering my questions. I've given other reasons also yet for some reason you chose to ignore those and focus on just one of the lesser reasons. That's weird.

Also, people shouldn't refuse to answer questions about their reads, all players in general but most definitely not town. Town should try to be as transparent as possible. Scum have motivation to do less talking cause the more they do, the more likely they can screw up. If a player refuses to explain their reads, especially scum reads that's a huge red flag imo.

No my name isn't really Jake, no I don't really work for State Farm.

[Jake from State Farm]

Town should try to be as transparent as possible.

Nope. Town's job is to identify and lynch scum. Not appear townish or transparent.

Never said anything about appear townish, it's possible be transparent and not care about appearances. Disagree about the transparent part though. Also if you don't explain yourself and answer questions it makes achieving the goal of "lynching scum" harder cause in order to "lynch scum" you have to have people follow you and most good players will want some actual reasons/explanation.

[Jake from State Farm]

that's the only reason I found.

Well clearly you aren't reading cause I made a post with multiple reasons and posted a link to it later for kts. If you are town I'd work on paying attention better.

[Jake from State Farm]

It's always good to look town, so you're better able to communicate your ideas to the town. If you're a good player, however, then it isn't necessary.

Town shouldn't be worried about looking town. That's what scum has to be worried about. Town has enough to worry bout trying to find scum and lynching them without lynching too many town in the process.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm running a half marathon tomorrow and have some things to do Sunday so I'll be fairly inactive this weekend. I'll try to check a couple of times but will just be skimming.

But where will you be if I get into a car accident and I need help on my policy? Like a good neighbor, Jake from State Farm should be there.

Looks like you didn't need me.

[Jake from State Farm]

It's always good to look town, so you're better able to communicate your ideas to the town. If you're a good player, however, then it isn't necessary.

Town shouldn't be worried about looking town. That's what scum has to be worried about. Town has enough to worry bout trying to find scum and lynching them without lynching too many town in the process.

lol pls. Town can be very self conscious about what they're doing almost as much as scum. It's not good, but it's true. That's why I said the good players don't need to express themselves as town.

Never denied they can. They do it all the time. I'm saying thy shouldn't. But to each it's own I guess

[Jake from State Farm]

I never claimed they were awesome... They were more then what you claimed they were so be honest when saying things about me

[Jake from State Farm]

1. That's not a fake reason at all
2. I disagree
3. Scum have different ways to play. Experienced players don't usually get defensive. But town get defensive also. So no point in bringing up defensive behavior.
4. Wow talk about twisting my words here. First, You don't have to be a leader to try and get others to lynch your scum read. Every townie has (in theory anyway ) the obligation to not only identify scum but get them lynched and you can't do that without help so you should try to be convincing. Make your arguments convincing. He's not doing that but neither are a lot of people. Second. No not everyone who isn't doing that is scum. I never said or even implied that so you are twisting my words here.

He's scum imo because he's done multiple things that read scummy and them all together just tells me he's probably scum. Are other people doing similar things? Perhaps but no single person is doing all of them like he is.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, care to address this point:
"when asked to explain himself he does in as few words as possible" - But don't scum have the tendency to over defend usually?

See my new post. It should answer that.

[Jake from State Farm]

if you do a good job answering, I'll go back to my policy vote on Jeanne. You'll like that because I know you feel the heat of my vote!

Not really worried about impressing you with my answers.

[Jake from State Farm]

Just cause I have 4 votes on me doesn't make my statement untrue. That's what I believe al town is should do, but I know most don't.

[Jake from State Farm]

When it's done in conjunction with other things that are also scummy. I would never vote a person just because they didn't try to convince people to follow them. But when they do other things I also perceive as scummy, it's the entire body of work.

[Jake from State Farm]

If townies did what they should do, this game would be way easier. Somewhere down the line players started dumbing down their play because they were incapable of elevating their scum game to emulate their town game. It's much easier to play like shit as town and hide behind that as scum. It's hard work to play good as town and keep that up when you are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

<3 you maestro

Hey KTS it's been real something... Back to your main account now?

Bye Felicia

[Jake from State Farm]

Kush, you have to realize by now kts is a troll alt.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: wisdom

[Jake from State Farm]

Nice shot Vig!

If this were epic Mafia 8 years ago you would have been speed lynched for that comment

[Jake from State Farm]

Either he goes or I do. With both of us around, this game will become a mess.

pedit: All I see is you accusing him because of a typo, him defending himself and you goading him on till he snapped so you can use that as evidence to further your fake case. Reminds me of what Tere did to me back when I first joined and I am not gonna let that shizz slide.

Excuse me, I never snapped

[Jake from State Farm]

Wisdom is town. You can trust him. Let's lynch scum in Jake (Though I prefer masquerade but I guess it won't fly)

Vote:Jake

You can go ahead and lynch me. It won't bother me one bit, but I'm flipping town. Guaranteed

[Jake from State Farm]

Read his posts for your explanation

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. There's not a single thing in any of my posts that are scummy, let alone indicate that I'm scum. When I flip town I hope the vig kills you and if that doesn't happen I hope town lynches you.

If you are town this game I also expect you to quit Mafia once this game is over because telling others to quit cause they correctly read me, means you should be held to the same kind of standard for incorrectly reading me. I know you won't though cause you are a msn who has no integrity.

Good day

[Jake from State Farm]

Shiro, Jake didn't hammer. Maestro did.

This

Shiro obviously isn't reading

[Jake from State Farm]

Possible because both were frustrated with kill. Agh now I feel like an idiot.

Yeah you should. I wasn't frustrated with kill though. I just thought he was scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh kill if you are reading this, pretty sure you aren't supposed to contact players via pm while the game is ongoing.

[Jake from State Farm]

Based on the reasons I gave yesterday, and now his refusal to respond to yet another person yes I do.

Please explain how it is "highly improbable"

[Jake from State Farm]

Because I don't feel like he is scum. He had no reason to tunnel you yesterday as scum and then continue today.

My reads are pretty similar with his minus the order.

I am pretty sure he scumread Dier and he was right, he was also right on kill but kill was bleeding town.

He scum read somebody but didn't try to get them lynched
He instead tried to lynch a townie
He white knighted a townie and stayed off the lynch


Hmmmm all things I would do if I were scum

[Jake from State Farm]

He caught dier? You mean he omgus'd him

[Jake from State Farm]

No I understand omgus. He did it twice even.

[Jake from State Farm]

Hey Wisdom, I have something for you.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6950062

This is you, not giving a crap about whether a player flips town and not showing a slightest bit of remorse even after they do. >.>

Which one is wisdom?

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake is town, Jeanne. Maestro isn't.

of course I am, but why the 180 all of a sudden. because now magically maestro is scum and he left you alive to lynch me? like you were a threat to be killed night 1 outside of a possible vig kill that is.

I've said why Maestro is scum, Jeanne. Address my reasoning.

no you didn't, at least not with anything that is actually a reason why he could be scum, just like you didn't give any reason why I was scum originally or why anyone on your list is scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jeanne, who was wisdom in that game you linked?

[Jake from State Farm]

You hammered an obvtown

to you maybe but to a bunch of other players most of who are town, they disagreed with you. Even if all scum was on the wagon (highly unlikely since you were off it) that still says a good position the town didn't find him "obv town"

[Jake from State Farm]

Reading up. I'm reading Wisdom as town right now for the record.

this post isn't helpful. Please contribute more thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK

no we can't and again you aren't really being productive. The discussion going on with wisdom is actually pretty productive because it's getting people to interact with people. hint hint

[Jake from State Farm]

Spoiler: A Huge-ass Quote-wall

/confirm VT let the Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry begin

Question for those with potentially serious votes: where is the Scum motivation for me / my posts so far?

/confirm VT let the Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry begin

let the Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry begin

Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry

WIFOM OMGUS bastardry

WIFOM bastardry

WIFOM

You have 5/7 votes on you.
Mafia is now either eager to lynch you or not lynch you.
So they are willing to sacrifice looking townie to accomplish these tasks.

Not necessarily, at all, in any way?

This is a Mini, meaning 2-4 Scum. Meaning 9-11 Town. Meaning this wagon (of 5 players) could easily be 100% TvT and Scum could just sit back and watch it happen.

They don't have to want to lynch me and they don't have to not want to lynch me. It's page 2, page 3. They could easily ignore this wagon and nobody would notice, or care. So you're just wrong?!?

Not sure if you legit believe you're right or if you're pullin' stuff out your bum for fun.

WIFOM bastardry

I don't like that Jeanne and Maestro "claimed" VT, even in a for-the-lulz kind of way.

I don't like that you're assuming or implying that I was claiming "for-the-lulz"
I don't think anything I've done so far implies I was claiming "for-the-lulz"

It was a serious claim, in my first post, made out of frustration and because I knew it would give me something to work with RIGHT out of the gate. Tell me where I'm wrong in my train of thought here, and tell me why claiming VT in a Closed Normal Setup is inherently scummy / something that you don't like.

WIFOM bastardry

Wisdom, Jake is Town

FIRST CONCRETE READ OF THE GAME

Why?

Gut for now, I'm at work phoneposting

OKAY MAYBE NOT

@jake
why is Wisdom scum or bad for refusing to vote "obvious scum" when there are like 11 other other people also not voting for "obvious scum"?

He's not scum for not voting kill, he's scum because he's not playing like a townie.

He's avoiding answering questions

from at least 2 people, he provides little to no actual substance,

when asked to explain himself he does in as few words as possible, if he actually does it at all

, he's not doing anything to progress the game and

he's not even attempting to convince others to follow him

.

I think the bolded is the only thing of importance here but it's part of what leads me to think/assume Wisdom is Town. ScumWisdom is usually pushier and grabs for "townbloc" control more often. The underlined is null and par-for-the-course with him, sorry Jake. It's not alignment-indicative.

VOTE: kushmountains

Other than this and post 364, which is basically a scumslip, I have no inspiration in this game. Killthestory makes this entirely unenjoyable to play and I wish one of us would be force-replaced or lynched or killed very soon. If you actually aren't an alt you have a lot of growth to do on this site before you go around calling established players and sound strategies bad. As it is, you're making yourself look like a fuckwit.

This vibes badly, and it feels pretty forced towards the end.

I enjoy Wisdom's sparse style and I may try to emulate it in my next town game.

This is not basically a scumslip - he's saying, he may try to do it in his next game where he rolls town (since, you can roll scum or 3p, you know). It can easily be read in that it says nothing about this game and I think that's how it was meant. Pretty weak.

I'm actually legitimately upset about this. I joined to play with Wisdom and Jake (and Aristophanes), and to experience and FA-modded game. Wisdom seems Town and even if he and Jake are duking it out, I appreciate that I'm getting all the good I remember from Jake and none of the rage I used to see from time to time. It's really disheartening to see somebody (KTS) appear out of the woodwork and be allowed to feel like they're the shit and think they already know everything and that everybody and everything else is wrong.

I expect, after prolonged interaction, you will become the second player on this site that I legitimately develop a hatred for. You are a black hole for this game for me, and I don't give a flying fuck if somebody tries to call me out for an appeal to emotion here, because I am emotional but I'm not appealing to anybody or anything.

I'm blocking you, and I'm not dealing with you in this game. Die tonight for all I care; I wish I could shoot you myself. I'm not replacing out of this game and I'm not giving you the time of day if you're going to come onto this site and ruin it for me. I don't have to deal with that bullshit and I won't.

I'm blocking you, and I'm not dealing with you in this game.

Also, be advised this is 100% serious. If you want me to respond to anything KTS says from now on you will have to quote it because I will not see it in this thread.

Give me one good reason I shouldn't hammer you, prick

Whoa watch the disrespect lad, ill have to report you to the GM if you keep up with that

probably because if you hammer town it secures your lynch tommorow

You know what. No. I'm not in the fucking mood for you anymore. Get out of this game.

VOTE: killthestory

Lynch me tomorrow. We have the room for that mislynch, but you I will watch die with pride no matter what your fucking alignment is. Jesus Christ.

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

HEY WHATS THIS

Side note:

Maestro started out the game nice and active and stuff. Now of a sudden it's like he's a different person. Not interactive and all he can talk about is how much he hates KTS.
What happened bro?

Is it not obvious??
You read the game right???

To be honest, it's not obvious to me, and I've read most of the game :/

Alright. Yes, the game would be much better with KTS in here. He was obvtown and a good scumhunter, as proven by the fact he caught Dierfire.

And really? We didn't have numbers for a lynch like one week before the deadline? That's the weakest argument ever.

1) You misunderstand, I mean this game is more enjoyable for me without him in it. Regardless of whether he was a good scumhunter or not. Catching 1 Scum in 1 game does not a good scumhunter make.

2) Again you misunderstand. I mean we had the numbers for the ML - and yes we only know it's a ML after the fact, but with 1 Scum gone last night I'm comfortable not giving a shit that we made that mistake yesterday.

Wisdom, let's be honest with eachother. There's no situation, even the expectation of a death-tunnel on somebody not-me, in which I would leave you alive if I were Scum in this game. I knew I'd get scrutiny for such an AtE hammer and I don't give a shit. Wise up. I'm Town. Now move on.

PEDIT: I tried a bunch of different permutations and got a game from 2003 (before any of us joined) and a game from 2015 that Jeanne was in but Wisdom was not. WTF?

WIFOM bastardry

Conclusion: Scum Maestro

VOTE: Maestro

another useless post.

maestro could be scum but taking a ton of his quotes and manipulating them isn't the way to convince anyone. back when I played as beck, I was notorious for doing these. They weren't useful, people ignored them, they are almost always very biased, and they just look very manipulative. and yes I did them as town, town can be manipulative just like scum can.

[Jake from State Farm]

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

It's a fact.

just cause you say it's a fact, doesn't actually make it one

[Jake from State Farm]

fwiw those posts helped me townread Snarky, so they were pretty productive. Maestro and Masquerade it is.

so you town read people who basically kiss your ass? got it

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't see scum maestro, I don't really see town maestro either. I see just maestro. I need to really go back and read some things.

All I see from you though is basically, he's scum because he hammered somebody and didn't care about alignment (yes this is a shitty reason to hammer someone but Kill was p.scummy and probably deserved it) and that alone is a pretty terrible reason to vote somebody. You later add that scum him would leave you alive to continue tunneling on me. Well god damn, scum ANYBODY would do that.

so your reasons for maestro, pardon my french, is complete shit.

you have something better to add? I'm all ears but as long as you hang on to those 2 reasons, nobody should be listening to you let alone sheeping you.

[Jake from State Farm]

your cockiness is really annoying, especially when you have done nothing to earn it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Because you're death-tunneling (without engaging with anything I can truly respond to or defend against) and there's no attractive alternative (as far as you're concerned) to lynching me right now.

he was doing that to me also but I didn't give up

[Jake from State Farm]

Wisdoms basis for my scum read is I said dire instead of kill. his basis for maestro is he hammered kill and wisdom didn't die so that means maestro was the only person who would leave him alive.

[Jake from State Farm]

Eh. I think I was too quick to write Jake off as VI. He is only posting to discredit me now and has stopped scumhunting and it's starting to worry me again.

Of course I'm going to discredit my top scum read. And don't call me a VI cause I most certainly am not. And the "not quite" imo is a lie since you refused to explain yourself, when pressured by Jeanne you just do a complete 180 and start calling me town. Town doesn't do that.

You are scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Maestro, farmer, Jake. It's two of them. Everyone else is town.

Oh now I'm back on your scum list?

You need rope

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh almost forgot, jake, Wisdom did not omgus Dierfire and also Dierfire flipped scum.

Never accused wisdom of omgusing dire. Learn to read

[Jake from State Farm]

Who's my buddy, Jake?

Not really sure. I have to do some re-reading and I don't do that on my phone.

[Jake from State Farm]

I can't decide who is town in {Jake, Maestro, farmer}. All of them look scummy but in farmer's case this is my first game with him so I don't know if it's playstyle I'm scumreading.

You aren't reading this game at all, because I don't look scummy at all. What I do look like is freaking awesome for being all over your shit and exposing you for the scum that you are.

[Jake from State Farm]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this why you started scumreading Jake?

It is, yet he already denied that once. Like I said earlier, he refuses to actually explain himself and when you put some actual pressure on him to do so about me he magically dropped his scum read on me and shifted focus to another easy target.

That's just another reason why he's scum, people who can't see this are blind or something. Cause I just got a call from Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles (yes from the dead) and they both say they can see he's scum

[Jake from State Farm]

What I see in there is a forced scumread on KTS. There were lots of reasons for KTS to vote Jake (even on gut, if nothing else), but farmer somehow deduces that none of them is applicable and the stretch that is "he anticipated Jake will make a good counterwagon" was more logical.

Like what? You have yet to provide a single reason why I'm scum other than the typo which isn't a reason at all.

What I think is you thought I was onto your buddy and you decided to try and discredit me. That's why you never really pushed hard for. Dier lynch. You instead tried to white knight kts by defending him and using tat for leverage for town cred.

[Jake from State Farm]

and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift.

And I have to repeat that this was really awful. "I don't see Jake's post as scummy to warrant such a shift, therefore it makes no sense that someone else who is not me saw it as such and voted Jake".

That's actually not scummy at all.

[Jake from State Farm]

I haven't stopped scum hunting. For like the 3rd or 4th time this game and now the 2nd time this day phase, I don't do my re-reads on my phone.

I've found scum and my focus right now is to get them(you) lynched. I don't really have to look for your partner right now. I can only really focus on one person at a time, I'm a tunneler. after years of playing I've finally accepted that is just who I am.

[Jake from State Farm]

You really should learn to read. Asking me questions that I've already answered instead of providing actual content yourself is kind of a waste of time. All you have done is say a bunch of people are scum but refuse to explain why, which is the most import part.

[Jake from State Farm]

I already showed you how the situation you're describing can't be compared to me, but okay. You'll look like a fool, not me.

If you turn out to be town, you will definitely be the one looking like a fool.

Jeanne actions look very good actually. She's forcing a player to explain themselves and instead that player refuses and even does a 180 to avoid doing it.

In most games that is more than enough reason to lynch a player, why people in this game are ignoring that is completely beyond me.

[Jake from State Farm]

You are not really trying to get me lynched though. I don't see you trying to get anyone to vote me.

Didn't you say all I was doing was trying to discredit you? The way I was "discrediting" you was pointing out posts of yours which were bullshit and accurately pointing out your scummy behavior and the things you have said that are reasons for people to doubt their town read on you.

That's me trying to get you lynched.

[Jake from State Farm]

Maestro, please start playing like town now. I'm positive it's Jake/farmer and I'd like confirmation in you stopping being a scumbutt.

It scares you so much that I've caught you that you have to do yet another 180.

That's ok, I seriously doubt I'm getting lynched today, if ever but when and if that happens and I flip town, town better fucking listen to me and lynch you next. These absolutely nothing about your play that suggest you are town. You can't even provide reasons for any of your scum reads and your paranoia is so blatantly obvious.

[Jake from State Farm]

It really is

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm null on farmer right now.

what caused your read on farmer to change to a null?

[Jake from State Farm]

It was always pretty null?

no it wasn't. you had him and kts as strong town reads so when and why did that change?

[Jake from State Farm]

why do you need to read the game to tell me why your read changed? I feel like that you should be able to do from memory, at least somewhat

[Jake from State Farm]

oh my bad, ok so that didn't answer my question...

what caused your read on farmer to change to a null?

in case it wasn't obvious, which it should have been, This is me asking you for some reasons. "because I read the game" isn't an good enough answer. For somebody to go from one of your strongest town reads to null, they had to have done something pretty drastic for that to happen. Please explain what caused your read to change. Feel free to provide quotes or post numbers.

Thank you

[Jake from State Farm]

well let's ignore for a second how bad it is to ignore a town read on day 1 is for a second.

you called farmer town in post 229 and the only other town read you had at the time was KTS.

KTS didn't call farmer town until post 331 (math isn't my strong suit but I am pretty sure that was 102 posts AFTER you called him town)

now in post 229 you had kuroi and masq as "town leans" so let's look at their posts

Kuroi never comes out and calls him town, the closest is in post 419 where he is in the "danger but a happy ending" section

Masq never town read farmer.


So do you want to try again perhaps?

[Jake from State Farm]

that first sentence should say

"well let's ignore for a second how bad it is to sheep a town read on day 1 is for a second."

[Jake from State Farm]

Hey wisdom, I think I found another scum.

my scum hunting is fucking amazing

[Jake from State Farm]

Nice chainsaw

Jake / Maestro it is

how it is a chainsaw? I took your own words and proved they were untrue. That's scum hunting bro

[Jake from State Farm]

I mean, jake is kinda grasping at straws and grasping at one flip flop I did. If that's your strongest scum case you should read the game.

how am I grasping at straws.

I notice that you called farmer town (one of your only ones) and now you call him null and when I ask you to explain why, you lied. do you not get that? YOU ACTUALLY FUCKING LIED

No grasping, no chain saw, just down and dirty scum hunting.

[Jake from State Farm]

Though good job not voting on it, and looking to wisdom for approval.

was this directed at me? I am not seeking wisdom's approval. did you miss that wisdom is my top scum read?

[Jake from State Farm]

If that's your strongest scum case you should read the game.

thanks for proving you haven't read the game because that isn't my strongest scum case. My strongest scum case was posted day 1 and I have been adding to it today.

snarky doesn't read the game, yet tells others to read the game...

btw I actually just proved I am reading the game when I just caught you in a lie. I mean at first you acted like you never had a town read on farmer and then when you tried to explain why you had one, that was proven false.

maybe you should read the game so you don't get caught in lies. just a suggestion...

[Jake from State Farm]

well yeah if he is talking to me it makes no sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

but then again he's trying to play off that he didn't just lie about "one flip flop" and that doesn't make sense either.

town reaction would be to admit his mistake and lick his wounds, instead he acts like it didn't actually happen and instead uses that as a way to attack me.

[Jake from State Farm]

well if anyone knows anything about bullshit tunnels, you would be the expert on the subject

[Jake from State Farm]

yes there I go using my own reasoning for figuring people out, but at least I am transparent in my reasoning instead of intentionally vague/deceptive like some people...

[Jake from State Farm]

did he lie in that game?

[Jake from State Farm]

How did he lie here again?

Oh FFS if you are town I'm definitely blacklisting you now. You just commented on the exchange where I pointed out his lie and now you act like you either didn't see it or didn't happen.

Bye Felicia

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't recall honestly. I just kinda put the read list there to have content

Town doesn't just throw shit out just to have content scum does.

[Jake from State Farm]

im not answering anymore of your questions until you go back and answer every single one of mine you have ignored/dodged all game. Especially when the answer to your question has already been explained and obvious to anyone with half a brain

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake is going hard on the offensive and I can't tell what I think of that but I'll get back to that later

What if I told you I do it as both alignments?

Also you seemed so sure I was scum a couple pages back yet now I get the feeling you are less sure. I don't want to put words in your mouth but to me it looks like you are backing off due to negative attention.

[Jake from State Farm]

1. People seriously need to stop doing read lists
2. Your read list kinda blows

If you are going to do something useless as a reads list, at least make it less useful and explain why each of your reads are why they are. You basically are just posting more fake content again

[Jake from State Farm]

Your lack of reads kinda blows.

Lack of reads? I have 2 very strong scum reads and I've provided better evidence for them than you have for either of yours. "I'm sheeping" and "here's a wall of quotes" that's you in a nutshell

[Jake from State Farm]

And hate to agree with wisdom but you haven't explained farmer. You lied about why you town read him in the first place and basically said "I read the game" as to why it went back to null. When i asked for specific examples of things from farmer, you have yet to respond except to falsely accuse me of chain-sawing which is so blatantly false, grasping at straws which imo is also blatantly false, and then you just say I'm scum with maestro.

P.edit - sort of agree with the parrot comment

[Jake from State Farm]

That was fun, I should probably re-read ISOs and question people more often. Mental note, stop playing on my phone

[Jake from State Farm]

I was going to start with the lowest poster but according to the numbers, that's him. He has to do some really scummy shit to move to numero uno

[Jake from State Farm]

Uh. Not sure how to feel about that. Doesn't look like a bus.

very convincing, I don't think anyone will suspect you now

[Jake from State Farm]

because I haven't started yet. making dinner, going on a run, etc, etc...

maybe later tonight, it's short enough I should be able to bang it out pretty quickly

[Jake from State Farm]

Jeanne please don't join any of my games again :/

All kidding aside the only one in this game who has done anything blacklist worthy is probably you but only if you turn out to be town. Your attitude is terrible and you aren't playing towards the same win condition as the rest of us. Bring antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic and saying "it's my play style " doesn't make it better. I doubt it's even accurate. You are intentionally pushing people's buttons and I'd even say you are just trolling.

[Jake from State Farm]

You basically said that you won't even care if they flip town and would just move on. I mean, if you are that sure they are scum, you could at least apologize if you are wrong.

Where did he say this? I either missed it or don't remember

[Jake from State Farm]

Yo I am also voting snarky

Actually you are voting Sharky lol

Just checking in. Read farmer's iso and my original read on him holds true. I hate him, gives off a swarmy vibe

[Jake from State Farm]

What do you mean what happened to maestro?

[Jake from State Farm]

Why would you call him not posting scummy at all?

[Jake from State Farm]

Mental note, check to see if your past games reflect that.

[Jake from State Farm]

Farmer, you have the lowest post count out of everyone alive yet you are concerned with who's lurking? Hilarious.

[Jake from State Farm]

lol pressure building on snarky so he's trying to bring back the maestro stuff after that ship already sailed.

[Jake from State Farm]

I haven't tried to de-rail you. nobody is de-railing you but yourself. If you want to lynch maestro, you should post more than "what happened to maestr" twice.

What I actually did though was ask you a very simple question to figure out why your town read changed on a player and you acted like you never had one. When I pointed out you did, you said you had it cause you sheeped a town read. Once I proved that was false, you changed your story yet again and then started flailing and throwing false accusations towards me.


None of that is a town reaction. I'm sorry you were so easy to rattle, guess you need to work on your scum game for the next time you roll scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I think it's also funny you are going to take the time to make a case on me, yet you didn't even do one for maestro and you were very interested in lynching him. maybe that's what you meant by me trying to de-rail you? Idk, just funny anyway.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes I have and "A huge ass quote wall" isn't a case. Nothing you posted after that was a case either

[Jake from State Farm]

Did you even read anything I wrote in said quote wall?

No

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok let's respond to some of this.

1. Trying to imply post 9 was scummy or vote worthy is

2. Nothing wrong with what he posted in the bold, this wifom bastardry means nothing and certainly isn't alignment indicative

3. You still talking about wifom?

4. Why do you have issue with maestro saying "so and so is town" yet you don't have issues with anyone else including yourself doing it? :wake me up when you post something scummy from maestro:

5. Saying gut doesn't mean he's backing off. Like seriously have you never played Mafia before? People have been using gut as a reason for years now.

6. "Vibes bad" & "feels pretty forced" unfortunately that's impossible to discern. I've been accused of similar things and those people were wrong, I've accused people of these kind of things and have been wrong. So yeah you are basically you are using a bias already to make your decision (assuming you're town)

7. I could easily see how that looked like a scum slip. I even thought about it myself when I first read it but decided that alone wasn't enough for me.

I'm going to stop now, the reason is for the very same reason I gave earlier. Iso quote walls are very easily to manipulate and by that i mean quote something and use conf.bias to say something is scummy. I was notorious for doing it myself, I don't do it anymore. There is a reason for that, it's because it's not effective AND nobody listens to people who do them.

Did you notice nobody really commented on yours? Cause nobody fucking cares about a dumb ass quote wall where you basically conf.bias the shit out of it.


You have to point to specific examples and explain why they are scummy, and what the scum intent is and why a townie couldn't or at least shouldn't do them. You have failed at that.


P.edit because I already explained why they aren't cases. I just explained again in this post also.

I have been accused of conf.bias far too much to know that your entire quote wall is basicall a wall of conf.bias which makes it pointless to read.

[Jake from State Farm]

SEE ABOVE -> MAESTRO SAYS HE'S VOTING KTS BECAUSE HE HATES THE PLAYER AND NOT THE PLAY. THEN HE DISAGREES WITH WHY KTS WAS AT L-1. GREAT!

Why are you trying to paint this scummy when it's actually the truth?

Aristo - reasons for kts include opportunistic and tone/composition fee scummy
Dier - scum so who cares
Me - gave reasons. Basically wasn't playing like a townie
Farmer - issues with the 180 on me, little opportunistic, felt like he could capitalize on a possible Jake wagon
Kurio - he's the only one I have no freaking clue why he voted kts. He was more focused on maestro and all he says is it should be obvious why he's voting kts and that voting kts is easier

So nobody else voted kts because of personal dislike. This just proves why wall of quotes suck. You do no actual research, you do no actual fact checking. You manipulate posts to fit your mold, knowing people aren't going to fact check. Well now that's the second time I've fact checked you and you have come out a liar. I should just call you Donald Trump

[Jake from State Farm]

1) How is that not a case?
2) How is it less of a case than the one on me?
3) How am I wrong about this at all and why do you think so? Seriously why do I put effort into this stuff if people are just gonna be like "LOL U HAS NO CASE" and vote me -__-

1. Because it isn't. I've explained why twice now.
2. It's less of a case because mine actually shows how you have tried to deceive people. How you changed your story multiple times when questioned and how when you get backed into the corner by me, you attack with ludicrous accusations that nobody really agrees with. Even your biggest ally in wisdom doubts your alignment. Did your case convince people they are wrong about maestro? Uh nope not that I've seen.

3. You are wrong and I've explained why already.

4. Donald, poor Donald. People aren't voting you because "lol u has no case" people are voting you because of how you reacted to me questioning you. It's fairly obvious when the guy you were buddying even speaks out against you. Did you not see this post?

I was about to say that Jake was setting up another bullshit tunnel on Snarky, but I actually don't like Snarky in this exchange.

The "exchange" he's referring to is the back and forth you and I had when I questioned your 180 on farmer. The one where you said you sheeped a town read and I proved that wasn't true.


Sorry Donald, people aren't voting you because "lol u has no case" people are voting you because your play looks scummy

[Jake from State Farm]

Most of the time people who claim Town in RVS/Pre-game turn out to be scum. It's a pattern I've noticed and I like to press it hard when I can.

Can you provide some examples?

[Jake from State Farm]

I exsist. Will get back into this tomorrow

[Jake from State Farm]

been busy, I'll get to this in (expired on 2016-03-21 20:00:00)

V/LA until tomorrow night

Ok seriously now even I'm getting fed up with your bulllshit. If you are town this game you are going on the blacklist.

[Jake from State Farm]

There's way to many people who's contribution has been terrible. Please give me a couple of day kills

[Jake from State Farm]

There's way to many people who's contribution has been terrible. Please give me a couple of day kills

Who are they and what are your reads on them?

you - null
farmer - scummy
kuroi - null
maestro - was town, now null
masq - townish sort of

[Jake from State Farm]

yes he is...

[Jake from State Farm]

Remind me why I'm scum again?

You got caught in a lie and kept changing your story every time I disproved your statements.

[Jake from State Farm]

That's L-1 for me.

Honestly I think it's a pretty weak case on me, and it worries me how Wisdom is now content to coast along with what you're saying, Jake, rather than adding anything to it or doing additional scumhunting. I'm not sure what that says about him, but...

When Maestro quick-hammers me, anyway, please please please lynch him tomorrow <_<

Claim please

[Jake from State Farm]

Fact: I think Maestro is scum.
Fact: You and Jake in particular are de-railing that case because you're looking at the circumstantial part of my case, and not the basis for the case.
Fact: The case on me is based on an interaction you don't like, me pushing the shit out of my scumread, and me changing a read from early on and not really knowing why I had said read in the first place. That's weak as shit.

I've been tunneling the shit out of Maestro since before pressure was on me. KTS was doing the same before he got lynched. If you think we're both scum, lynch him first, then lynch me if he flips town. I'm certain he will not, though.

The basis for it was trash and you still never provided a true case for maestro. Outside of your wall of quotes which are biased, I haven't seen one good reason from you as to why he's scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll hammer but I do want a serious post from maestro first.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok saying that I didn't engage the situation is pretty fake. I was consistently here the past few arguments.

I could do Farmer. I did say that I think at least one of the two is scum but if he flips town we should get snarky.

Vote:Farmer

Why not just get snarky now? This counter wagon attempt really bothers me

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, you could do with some reevaluating now and then. How are you not bothered with everyone being super fine with lynching Snarky? Does he not have a buddy?

His wagon took years to get close to lynch. If he got there quickly if probably have an issue with it but it was like pulling teeth which makes me feel better about it

[Jake from State Farm]

Well I'm not really concerned with others. The mere fact he lied and kept changing his story is enough to convince me he can't possibly be town. I'm still hanging on to hope people will be willing to lynch you.

You and him are the only people I'll be voting today

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not asking why people scum read me. I don't care if people scum read me. I did ask YOU to explain your scum read on me, or on anyone cause everything somebody has asked you (at least early on in the game) you outright refused to explain yourself. Even now you don't really explain yourself but people stopped asking you.

Besides there's nothing scummy or wrong with having 2 string scum reads and wanting to lynch them so lol @ you

[Jake from State Farm]

Normal games are a great place to find who you shouldn't play with. A great lesson.

Yes and most people have come to the conclusion you are a cancer and should be avoided at all cost.

[Jake from State Farm]

You are trying? Outright refusing to answer questions and explaining yourself is trying?

No seriously go troll someplace else please

[Jake from State Farm]

Post game if you and maestro turn out to be town I'm actually going to have the mod's look into your conduct to see if it qualifies as playing against your win condition. Imo you both have been if you both are town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah because catching scum is all about explaining yourself and answering questions

You haven't caught scum yet...

[Jake from State Farm]

jake I don't agree with you. You need to put in more effort. And unvote Wisdom.
Same goes for Jeanne.

I disagree with you. I don't need to do anything more than I have already done. I've found 2 scum and I'm trying to get them lynched. I provide reasons for my scum reads and I keep pressure on them.

I'm #winning

[Jake from State Farm]

Besides the point.

You are arguing that I am not trying because I am not explaining myself, which is silly. I don't need to explain myself to anyone to find who is scum.

It's not silly, it's literally how you play the game if you are town.

[Jake from State Farm]

I disagree with you. I don't need to do anything more than I have already done. I've found 2 scum and I'm trying to get them lynched. I provide reasons for my scum reads and I keep pressure on them.

I'm #winning

That's not how you play town. You reevaluate. You consider the possibility you're wrong. You consider how others are reacting towards your scumreads. You don't just ignore the game and lurk until your scumreads are dead.

I'll reevaluate once I get a flip. Right now my top 2 scum reads keep doing things that reconfirm my read. I've yet to see either do anything that looks town of makes me think I could be wrong.

[Jake from State Farm]

Nope. Town's wincon is to eliminate scum. That can be achieved through various ways. Explaining what's on their minds on every turn is not necessary.

Guess we will agree to disagree

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh I'm looking hard enough.

[Jake from State Farm]

The only fool fodder in this game are you and maestro

[Jake from State Farm]

If you can't communicate why somebody is scum, that's not scum hunting and it certainly isn't trying to eliminate scum (which is your own definition of a town win con)

There's a reason why you can't get any serious traction on the people you want lynched, you have to convince others you are right and other people are wrong. You haven't done that, in fact you refuse to do that.

So you are either scum or town playing against their win condition from my pov.

[Jake from State Farm]

You can't though. You have yet to get any of the people you were pushing close to lynch range. The closest to Lynch so far was snarky and it certainly wasn't due to anything you have contributed since you haven't contributed anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

You pushed me, that never went anywhere
Maestro, nope that never developed
You even couldn't buss dier good enough day 1.

You have succeeded in getting absolutely 0 people lynched or close to one

[Jake from State Farm]

You have succeeded in getting absolutely 0 people lynched or close to one

Like, how is that a metric for towniness? Are you telling me scum do not get people lynched or close to lynches?

Is your memory that short you can't remember that you just posted this?

If I can make people vote with me without communicating reasons, why is that not an acceptable attempt to eliminate scum?

My post was a direct response to the quoted. I didn't say it has anything to do with any "metric of towniness"

But your play this game doesn't resemble any sort of town motivation, and it certainly doesn't resemble somebody playing to my definition of playing towards a town win condition, and last but certainly not least your play doesn't even resemble your own fucking definition of town playing towards a town win condition.

You aren't lynching scum, you show no interest in actually trying to lynch scum, and you certainly can't even communicate why people are scum other than "because I say so"

So you are scum plain and simple.

[Jake from State Farm]

And you can't make people vote vote with you without communicating. At least you can't make enough people. Lynch requires a majority, you aren't going to get that when you refuse to explain yourself and any townie who blindly sheeps anyone who refuses the provide reasonings imo is a player who also has no integrity for the game.

[Jake from State Farm]

You aren't lynching scum, you show no interest in actually trying to lynch scum,

This is simply untrue though. You have to be either blind or scum and opt to ignore facts, because my interest to lynch scum is in the thread. If I didn't have reads that were developing, if I didn't care about who I am lynching but just wanted to get just any lynch, my vote would still be on you. Or on Maestro. Or on Snarky. It isn't, because my vote changes when I'm no longer confident I am voting scum.

On comparison, your vote is sticky and you show absolutely no interest in trying to figure anyone out, not even the people you're scumreading. Your play fits the definition of scum play yet still I opt not to scumread you because I see signs of genuineness in your posts. Because unlike you, I'm open minded, and despite how scummy you're being I don't link it to you being scum no matter what.

Ignoring the other post which is you basically implying you are gods gift.

On to this one. It isn't "simply untrue" it's actually fact but of course you are going to disagree. I didn't actually expect you to admit your mistakes.

Your assertion of me is also incorrect. Ive tried to figure out people. The most obvious come to mind when I asked you multiple questions early in the game. Your refusal to answer my questions led me to think you aren't town. You ignoring other people as well just added to that.

Now on to snarky. Snarky wasn't even a top scum read of mine, I attempted to figure him out when I asked why his read on farmer changed. I noticed it changed when your read on farmer seemed to change so it was curious. He denied having a town read on him and when proven that was a lie, he said he had it cause he was sheeping a town read. The only town reads he had day 1 were farmer (the sheep one right?) and kts yet kts didn't have a town read on farmer and those were his only 2 published strong town reads. So that was thus proven to be a lie also. He later said he just threw the list reads to generate content. Now my experience only people who have to fake content are scum.

So there is 2 examples that prove you are wrong about me.

Have you done anything close to that? Absolutely not. So don't sit there and falsely accuse me of shit... Oh wait you are scum so you have to falsely accuse me of shit.

Bye Felicia.

[Jake from State Farm]

lol

Since when scum ask people to claim at L-5, farmer?

That's a horrible reason to imply somebody can't be scum. If you were town you would know that.

[Jake from State Farm]

Snarky is happening today. Wisdom isn't.

vote: snarky

Vig will shoot wisdom for clarity. He's either scum or somebody we don't want anywhere near mylo/lylo

P.edit - idk but I've never seen town do it either so that part is null. Way to overlook the more important lies and focus on the more insignificant fact...That's pro town for sure

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh wait you are scum so you have to falsely accuse me of shit.

Except that's not what I'm doing seeing as I'm not even scumreading you, but you're once again proving you are incapable of communicating. So I am going to ignore you like Jeanne.

You falsely accused me of shit so yes that is exactly what you are doing. Not to mention earlier when you called me scum.

You may not be scum reading me now but that's probably cause your buddy is about to be lynched and you think I'll somehow listen to you and look elsewhere.

Sorry you lie like snarky did, you get rope. Snarky gets rope

[Jake from State Farm]

Are you going to blacklist me when I flip town?

No but I'll be scratching my head at some of the things you have done. But that's not going to happen so...

[Jake from State Farm]

Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

I think we can just agree to disagree and end the conversation. It's just pointless at this point.

[Jake from State Farm]

Thanks for your opinion. Anything game related to add?

[Jake from State Farm]

Gonna read up properly when I get back home but rn jake I'd rather have wisdom in lylo over you. Try harder. I mean wisdom confuses me sometimes but generally I am able tofollow him.

try harder? I am already trying at max capacity ffs

[Jake from State Farm]

How anyone can make the leap from aristo's comment to "oh he has to be sk" is beyond me.

[Jake from State Farm]

I was basing that off wisdom's post to which you replied that it was accurate...

So your fact 1 while may be accurate, it was certainly implied that was where you were thinking and not really considering all the possibilities.

Never denied fact 2 but that really doesn't prove if we have a sk or a vig, it confirms that we have at least 1

It's not unlikely town vig would shoot n1, it's very likely actually asked on my experiences with a vig on this site

Yes we don't know what we have. Suspecting SK over vig with no actual info is narrow minded if you are town

5. Yes aristo could be SK, he could be a vig, he could be town, or he could be Mafia. Nothing about that comment gives you insight into what he is so assuming he could be the SK because of one statement is stupid.

[Jake from State Farm]

Aristo

Btw this post kind of implies that you only think aristo is SK and that is basically because of his nice shot vig.

Screw that, it doesn't imply It, it comes out and accuses him of it. So nobody misrepped you.

[Jake from State Farm]

Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK

Quote fail.

[Jake from State Farm]

See in my experience though limited, when somebody compliments anyone for a Mafia NK or from a no ki in general, they are usually Mafia but even I don't let that cloud my judgement. I keep an open mind because that statement isn't enough to tell anyone anything. You jumping to SK indicates a close mindset which no towmie should have or it means they are Mafia trying to discredit somebody and set them up for a lynch later.

If you are town what you did is bad. If you are scum, it doesn't help your cause either.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yet another person you try to lynch, with no case and nobody really following you except a couple of sheep.

Color me shocked

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so part of us agree on Snarky and part of us agree on farmer now.
Lets all agree on Maestro?

VOTE: Maestro

2 people voting farmer
At least double that is voting snarky

Why is a maestro wagon a good wagon? What will his flip tell us? He doesn't give reads so how can we learn anything if he flips scum besides the obvious yay we lynched scum. What if he's town and he's playing like this for some unknown reason?

I don't see how a maestro lynch helps town, a snarky lynch helps town more. 1. Cause he's scum and 2. We can narrow down his partner easier based a good through re-read and interactions.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok saying that I didn't engage the situation is pretty fake. I was consistently here the past few arguments.

I could do Farmer. I did say that I think at least one of the two is scum but if he flips town we should get snarky.

Vote:Farmer

Can you link me to the post where you said one of snarky or farmer could be scum? I can't seem to find it...

Also remind me why farmer is scum