Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[nnn_thekushmountains]

Ok saying that I didn't engage the situation is pretty fake. I was consistently here the past few arguments.

I could do Farmer. I did say that I think at least one of the two is scum but if he flips town we should get snarky.

Vote:Farmer

why is one of farmer/snarky scum? is it some connection between the two or just the fact that you are scumreading both of them?

whyd you switch to farmer from snarky?

[nnn_thekushmountains]

kush consider lynching farmer please

where's the case? i remember isoing farmer and I thought he sounded townie.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

defense of farmer:

But I can say now that Kill's vote on Jake looks bad and omgussy.

What town motivations could there be for it? He could think Jake is scum, but as he said, he had townread Jake before then (and seemed to be rather strongly townreading him), and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift. He could be testing for a reaction, but Jake has provided enough content so far that I don't think he'd be an appropriate choice for this.

What scum motivations could there be for it? The top two wagons at the time were his an Maestro's, and Maestro's wagon didn't seem to be going anywhere. Of the other wagons, the only one that would seem to have had any momentum was Jake's, being pushed aggressively by Wisdom. So I could see him anticipating this wagon's rise and hopping on before it looks opportunistic to do so.

So despite the risk of incurring his burns:

VOTE: Killthestory

townielike depth of thought

Snarky's starting to look bad. His case against Maestro in 613 is pretty much a bunch of quotes that the reader is supposed to interpret negatively.

@ Snarky

Do you have any prior experience with Maestro?

Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK

Why do you assume that the second death is due to a SK, and why do you posit that SK to be Aristo?

Also I'd like an actual claim if possible, and also a weigh-in from anyone who is not Wisdom, Jake, Maestro

Why do you want a claim at L-4? I know it's low-hanging fruit, but how am I to see this as anything other than role-fishing?

good points that I agree with against snarky. Especially the sk thing which struck me as tmi.

How can you be null on the most active person in the game ?

It's not clear to me how he's actually formulating his reads. If there isn't any indication of how his reads come into being (as indicated by explanations of why someone's town/scum), then it is difficult to gage such things as whether he is operating from an uninformed or informed perspective, and whether his reads are developing in a natural, townie way (as opposed to being created secondarily for some scum purpose).

Despite this, I'm not scumreading him because his reads have been progressing and I get the feeling that he is trying to figure the game out.

If you have any suggestions as to how to build up this read, I'd love to hear it.

About this, I think scum is more likely to have popular reads actually.

[Wisdom]

His push on Snarky is bullshit, see my posts on the matter

[Wisdom]

good points that I agree with against snarky. Especially the sk thing which struck me as tmi.

Come on, you agree that scum try to get a claim at L-4?

[Wisdom]

And even the SK thing, why do you think that it's scum who thinks SK?

Both those things are more "weird" than "scummy" if you think about it.

[Wisdom]

As for your first quote, I have already discussed how farmer was awfully forcing a scumread on KTS there. That's not a "townie depth of thought", that's a "I will ignore all possible town motivations for no reason at all and settle on the unlikely scum motivation".

[nnn_thekushmountains]

good points that I agree with against snarky. Especially the sk thing which struck me as tmi.

Come on, you agree that scum try to get a claim at L-4?

scum wants a claim like that more than anything. It's better than a mislynch.

And even the SK thing, why do you think that it's scum who thinks SK?

Both those things are more "weird" than "scummy" if you think about it.

If town thinks someone isn't town, they think that person is scum.
If scum thinks someone isn't town, they think that person is SK.
And that's why scum are more likely to bring up and accuse sk than town is.

[Wisdom]

Sure, scum want claims, but since when they try to get them at L-4? Or when do they openly ask for them for that matter? It's ridiculous to argue Snarky is scum for that.

Yes, SK hunting can be indicative of scum, but in a different context. You're saying it yourself, we're talking about a case where people don't think someone is town (usually that happens in open games where it's known there's an SK). Here that wasn't the case, there is a kill, and it's argued whether it's coming from town or an SK. It's different.

[Wisdom]

My understanding on the SK thing is that Snarky took the "nice shot, vig" from Aristophanes as a likely SK claim (with Aristophanes essentially praising himself and setting up his vig claim)

[Masquerade]

Ok so part of us agree on Snarky and part of us agree on farmer now.
Lets all agree on Maestro?

VOTE: Maestro

[Jake from State Farm]

Gonna read up properly when I get back home but rn jake I'd rather have wisdom in lylo over you. Try harder. I mean wisdom confuses me sometimes but generally I am able tofollow him.

try harder? I am already trying at max capacity ffs

[SnarkySnowman]

My understanding on the SK thing is that Snarky took the "nice shot, vig" from Aristophanes as a likely SK claim (with Aristophanes essentially praising himself and setting up his vig claim)

This is accurate.

I don't see how me "thinking aristo is not town" (and therefore SK) makes me scum. See above. It doesn't take a genius to see that a kill on mafia in a normal game probably came from - you guessed it - not mafia.

[Jake from State Farm]

How anyone can make the leap from aristo's comment to "oh he has to be sk" is beyond me.

[SnarkySnowman]

Wow, way to misrep.

1) Fact: Nobody said aristo must be SK.
2) Fact: Deirfire (mafia) was killed Night 1.
3) Implication of (2) is that it was an SK, as it seems unlikely that would have been a town vig making that shot on Night 1.
4) It could also have been a vig. We don't know, but I said I was suspecting SK over vig.
5) Aristo

could

be said SK. But we don't know.

[Jake from State Farm]

I was basing that off wisdom's post to which you replied that it was accurate...

So your fact 1 while may be accurate, it was certainly implied that was where you were thinking and not really considering all the possibilities.

Never denied fact 2 but that really doesn't prove if we have a sk or a vig, it confirms that we have at least 1

It's not unlikely town vig would shoot n1, it's very likely actually asked on my experiences with a vig on this site

Yes we don't know what we have. Suspecting SK over vig with no actual info is narrow minded if you are town

5. Yes aristo could be SK, he could be a vig, he could be town, or he could be Mafia. Nothing about that comment gives you insight into what he is so assuming he could be the SK because of one statement is stupid.

[Jake from State Farm]

Aristo

Btw this post kind of implies that you only think aristo is SK and that is basically because of his nice shot vig.

Screw that, it doesn't imply It, it comes out and accuses him of it. So nobody misrepped you.

[Jake from State Farm]

Can we drop this and agree Wisdom is town? I definitely follow his line of thinking here and I think it's distracting from {Jake, Maestro} scum and {Aristo} SK

Quote fail.

[Jake from State Farm]

See in my experience though limited, when somebody compliments anyone for a Mafia NK or from a no ki in general, they are usually Mafia but even I don't let that cloud my judgement. I keep an open mind because that statement isn't enough to tell anyone anything. You jumping to SK indicates a close mindset which no towmie should have or it means they are Mafia trying to discredit somebody and set them up for a lynch later.

If you are town what you did is bad. If you are scum, it doesn't help your cause either.

[Wisdom]

Ok so part of us agree on Snarky and part of us agree on farmer now.
Lets all agree on Maestro?

VOTE: Maestro

No, let's all agree on farmer.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yet another person you try to lynch, with no case and nobody really following you except a couple of sheep.

Color me shocked

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so part of us agree on Snarky and part of us agree on farmer now.
Lets all agree on Maestro?

VOTE: Maestro

2 people voting farmer
At least double that is voting snarky

Why is a maestro wagon a good wagon? What will his flip tell us? He doesn't give reads so how can we learn anything if he flips scum besides the obvious yay we lynched scum. What if he's town and he's playing like this for some unknown reason?

I don't see how a maestro lynch helps town, a snarky lynch helps town more. 1. Cause he's scum and 2. We can narrow down his partner easier based a good through re-read and interactions.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok saying that I didn't engage the situation is pretty fake. I was consistently here the past few arguments.

I could do Farmer. I did say that I think at least one of the two is scum but if he flips town we should get snarky.

Vote:Farmer

Can you link me to the post where you said one of snarky or farmer could be scum? I can't seem to find it...

Also remind me why farmer is scum

[Masquerade]

We can narrow down his partner easier based a good through re-read and interactions.

Show me where this happened succesfully.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've caught partners quite a few times. Would take too long to scour every single game though. I'm awesome in lylo btw