Mini 1769: Ice Cream Mafia - Game over!

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.10

Keyser Soze (4) - Thor665, GuyFawkes, BlueBloodedToffee, Boonskies
Ircher (2) - Titus, KainTepes
Thor665 (1) - massive
massive (1) - Ircher
GuyFawkes (1) - TellTaleHeart
Boonskies (1) - Slandaar
KainTepes (1) - Aquanim
Titus (1) - popsofctown
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Keyser Soze

Not voting (0)

(expired on 2016-03-13 08:31:00) remain until day end

[Boonskiies]

I see nothing wrong with Thor's play.

massive - I hate having gut reads, and that's all that TTH is for me right now.

I'm down to lynch Kain, though.

I don't get keyser's stance still. Just because someone's pushing for your lynch, the game is unbearable?

[TellTaleHeart]

Good job, Thor. You've noticed this game is absolutely no fun for me. I guess now you're seeing what kind of bullshit you can lump on me before I say "fuck it" and join the mass exodus out of this game? You wanting me to "do something" with one person's scumread is pretty ridiculous and you're absolutely

not

taking the time to read anything I'm posting and think about it. You're trying to come up with the wittiest rebuttal because I guess being the smartest guy in the room is what you're all about.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: BBT

Here, I guess I should do this. If we run up Kain he's just going to claim an investigative and everyone will unvote because he's so "obviously" town. Meanwhile we can make a pretty-looking case on someone who's not particularly likely to flip scum and smell our own farts about how much we "pressure" our scumreads.

[SirCakez]

Simmer down guys. Stop with the insults.

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser - I am not apologizing for my play, and I have never called you stupid - so please stop dropping F-bombs at me.

I didn't expect you to apologise. You are rotten mate, and too stubborn to listen to other players - do you ever think

"what if I am are wrong?"

. This isn't confirmation bias from you, this is just bad anti-town play. If you are town-aligned you will be on ignore list after this game. If you are scum, well-played - you have achieved your desired effect.


This game has officially ran out of ice cream.

@mod/rant over.

Edited out a vulgarity. Please keep it chill (pun intended).

[TellTaleHeart]

I guess I could also do OceanWind if nothing else just to save SirCakez the effort of having to find a replacement for that slot?

[SirCakez]

All slots are currently filled :p

[Keyser Söze]

Deadline: 4 days, 20 hours, 12 minutes. Plenty of time. No fucking early roleclaims.

Can someone present a logical argument (without insults or non-alignment indicative factors) showing how/why BlueBloodedToffee is town. Basically, if he is town, I want to stop wasting my time attacking his tunnel on me, and move on.

Moreover, does anyone null/scum read Aquanim (who I currently town read)? Then we can put that to bed for now too.

[popsofctown]

Titus will be replacing Golden Robster. Please welcome her!

Ok! VOTE: Titus

[TellTaleHeart]

My mistake, that's Ircher.

I take that back, I'm not going to vote him.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm down to lynch Kain, though.

KainTepes' play D1 basically has set himself up for the D1 lynch. If choosing between NO LYNCH or his lynch, I'm going his lynch. Fuck WIFOM, scummy play is scummy play. I'm not going to defend him anymore.

I haven't bothered to look up his soft power roleclaim. More bad play if true. But if it's serious we leave him the fuck alone, unless we have a counter claim.

No more hints/roleclaims/softing please.

[Boonskiies]

I am lean town on aqua

[Keyser Söze]

Boonskiies, why the fuck did you sheep that vote on me?
Do you seriously believe my play was scum-trying-to-miss-lynch-townies? Or am I simply a player you're not town-reading right now and my wagon will do?

[popsofctown]

@popsofctown

Can your highlight/quote these posts for me (points highlighted red interest me) - I did not notice these points in my re-read:

I find Golden Robster pretty scummy. He seems to be poking at random rather than poking at places that are actually

places a townie would be organically concerned about

. It makes it seem like he's doing it just to do something. I'm happy to believe he pokes this much in every game he plays with either alignment, but I bet as town he pick pressure points that are actually points of concern to begin with.

I don't know

why we aren't lynching Golden Robster today

. Okay, I do know, probably the partners factor. But there's like

nothing positive

about his slot.

All the opportunism and questionable pushing of the BBT slot

but not even a more threads of

positive feel

to it.

50 and 70 seem like posts at places that are not naturally worrisome to me. Just pokable. Asking for a force-replace is totally pokeable, but I don't think it's alignment indicative at all, especially that early on without better context. I could have picked 3 rocks that would be better to flip over that early on, and Robsters different choice of rocks from me makes me think he is scum suffering from colorblindness.

The second part, I was saying that BBT is also an aggressive player that looks for reactions, but BBT is actually trying to nurture the pace of the game (like trying to erect a wagon he believes in from L-something really low) whereas Robster just seemed to pushing his rake against the leaves so he gets paid at the end of the day. And that's rather consistent with him finally replacing out. If his questions organically arose from his own curiosity, the responses he got (he did get responses) would have kept steering him and kept his enthusiasm aloft. I think the curiosity was feigned in the first place, and he's just emulating his game 1 townplay poorly.

[popsofctown]

thor i thought I remember you being a happy bro not a fight bro

[Keyser Söze]

@popsofctown

Can your highlight/quote these posts for me (points highlighted red interest me) - I did not notice these points in my re-read:

I find Golden Robster pretty scummy. He seems to be poking at random rather than poking at places that are actually

places a townie would be organically concerned about

. It makes it seem like he's doing it just to do something. I'm happy to believe he pokes this much in every game he plays with either alignment, but I bet as town he pick pressure points that are actually points of concern to begin with.

I don't know

why we aren't lynching Golden Robster today

. Okay, I do know, probably the partners factor. But there's like

nothing positive

about his slot.

All the opportunism and questionable pushing of the BBT slot

but not even a more threads of

positive feel

to it.

Can you answer this ASAP popsofctown. I've had enough waiting. Show me scum-Golden Robster and I'll go there. Otherwise nothing is going to happen.

[popsofctown]

I ninja'ed you. This leads me to believe you are not actually Deadpool.

[TellTaleHeart]

Fine.

VOTE: Titus

[Keyser Söze]

50 and 70 seem like posts at places that are not naturally worrisome to me. Just pokable. Asking for a force-replace is totally pokeable, but I don't think it's alignment indicative at all, especially that early on without better context.

Ok, I see this - what scum choose to comment on/push does usually give them away.

The second part, I was saying that BBT is also an aggressive player that looks for reactions, but BBT is actually trying to nurture the pace of the game (like trying to erect a wagon he believes in from L-something really low)

whereas Robster just seemed to pushing his rake against the leaves so he gets paid at the end of the day

. And that's rather consistent with him finally replacing out. If his questions organically arose from his own curiosity, the responses he got (he did get responses) would have kept steering him and kept his enthusiasm aloft. I think the curiosity was feigned in the first place, and he's just emulating his game 1 townplay poorly.

Can you show me bolded please. I can't fully grasp it sorry -if you quote the post(s) in question.




What was your personal take of Golden Robster's "the kain wagon is a mislynch" comment:

I wanted Golden Robster to explain the "kain wagon is a mislynch" comment (post 239)

Which Golden Robster does here (Golden Robster's defence of KainTepes is based on personal previous experience with him):

I admit, the kain wagon being a mislynch is more to do with my experiences of playing with him.

He is always this loud, annoying (anti-town) and contradictory in some cases.

I wouldn't mind lynching him but as I said before, I think he'll flip town and it wouldn't surprise me.

Is it of interest/or null right now before a flip? Is Golden Robster's explanation suffice for you?

[Thor665]

You wanting me to "do something" with one person's scumread is pretty ridiculous and you're absolutely

not

taking the time to read anything I'm posting and think about it.

Well now it's two people again, as BBT has agreed with my read of his beliefs.
And you sitting on a vote you didn't care about, yeah, i would think +1 person would make you do something. Then again, apparently people are freaking out with anger at my suggestion of 'do something' which kind of confuses me as I'm pretty sure that's not an unreasonable opinion of what people should be doing in the game.

You're trying to come up with the wittiest rebuttal because I guess being the smartest guy in the room is what you're all about.

Why is this upsetting?
If it's just my methods, fine, note taken, now can we move forward with the plan?
If it's the plan and not the method - can you explain your counter plan? Because I am not seeing one.
If it's both, can we focus on the plan over the method - because I don't care about the method as long as we have a plan that makes sense.

I think a good plan for game advancement is to put a top scumread to L-1 and force a claim.
I think it should be done while we still have multiple days to discuss the claim and potential counter wagons.
I am making moves to try to make that happen, by attacking reads I find weak, and advancing a wagon I support while also noting other wagons I would support in case someone wants to try to push an alternate wagon.
I am noting dissatisfaction with people who are failing to push counter wagons, or are pushing lone vote wagons that they are not advancing.

What is your plan other than to do that?
And if that sounds okay, can we just call me a butthole and move on from the random emotional outburst about how I'm trying to look too smart? I'm happy if you want to think I'm dumb, rude, or a kumquat - but I am serious about the concept of my plan.

I haven't bothered to look up his soft power roleclaim. More bad play if true. But if it's serious we leave him the Smurf alone, unless we have a counter claim.

How do you counterclaim a soft claim?
By definition a soft claim is doing something like "I am a PR!"
You can't counter a claim like that.
A hard claim would be "I am a Gunsmith!"
Someone *could* counter that if they were, for instance, a Gunsmith, or maybe if they were a cop and didn't think both roles could exist.
But you can't counter claim a soft claim - that's why it's soft, and that's also why it's not worth ruling out someone as a lynch target if they do it, it's like saying 'I am town' it is meaningless to actual game issues.

[Keyser Söze]

How do you counterclaim a soft claim?
By definition a soft claim is doing something like "I am a PR!"
You can't counter a claim like that.
A hard claim would be "I am a Gunsmith!"
Someone *could* counter that if they were, for instance, a Gunsmith, or maybe if they were a cop and didn't think both roles could exist.
But you can't counter claim a soft claim - that's why it's soft, and that's also why it's not worth ruling out someone as a lynch target if they do it, it's like saying 'I am town' it is meaningless to actual game issues.

True, you can't counterclaim a soft, but I have seen a protective role being softed once. This led to the real doctor hard-counterclaiming, this led to much town bloodshed.
That is why I feel soft claims are bad play. You only claim at intent to hammer.

My point was, if KainTepes is at the stage of full roleclaiming, we'll either leave him alone with his claim (these things resolves themselves) or we deal with a counter claim.
I null read softing. I have seen scum use it as a defence tactic, and bad town soft when under pressure. We just need to make the right decision at the time. But we should only discuss this further if the majority scum-read/want to lynch KainTepes.

[Keyser Söze]

P.s @Thor665, please can you show me why BBT is 'strong-town'. I do not get his tunnel. I know town must be scum-reading me (as 4 or 5 people have voted for me), so I do not feel like this is OMGUS on my part (possible confirmation bias), but why is he ONLY focused on my slot?

[Titus]

Ok I am here.

[massive]

I think it would be stranger to see me come in *not* guns blazing. I'm pretty sure I'm known for being aggressive like this.
I'm still not really sure where you came from with this "no questions" thing either - that feels like you weren't reading me or...I dunno, weren't seeing questions?

Yeah, I don't know. I went back and looked at it. I don't know if I was thinking more along the lines of "informational questions" rather than rhetorical questions, which some of the early posts do look like (I went back and re-read) -- questions you know the answer to, but are basically forcing the questionee to admit to.

In the early posts, you are pushing Keyser basically because you are already on his wagon and he is the leading wagon. You work to add actual reasons for keeping the vote there / pushing (like "he's just posting walls without taking actions" from 601) but the whole thing seems a bit tunnelly, and I think the same thing could possibly be said about half the game. So I don't understand why Keyser specifically is the focus here.

Meanwhile, OceanWind had the exact opposite read of Keyser (79) and Ircher (his replacement) isn't catching up, except enough for a STRONG townread on Keyser, is voting a null read, but still wants to make sure his ducks are in a row for when Keyser is ultimately lynched.

VOTE: Ircher