Newbie 1691 - Game Over

[KickAssAndGiggle]

There's a lot of debate about something that is not alignment indicative!

I'm 34, I write a lot of emails to managers at work, and I sometimes use that skillset in forum posts.

You should wait until I make a drunk post! It'll blow your mind...

[UpTooLate]

There's a lot of debate about something that is not alignment indicative!

I'm 34, I write a lot of emails to managers at work, and I sometimes use that skillset in forum posts.

You should wait until I make a drunk post! It'll blow your mind...

See, without knowing you, it could be alignment indicative! I've noticed town seems to post more from their heart, and that didn't seem like it was from the heart. Not necessarily something I'm ready to vote on yet, as I want to talk with you more and look at your games, but not something I want to completely ignore.

Oh and I'm looking forward to the drunk posts!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I don't want to be argumentative, I really don't, but:

I've noticed town seems to post more from their heart

I'm a hard-headed man of facts and figures. It's head, head, head. To "post from the heart" implies an emotional investment in a forum game, which you won't see from me. I will play to win, hard, but with no heart, all head.

And that will be the same as both alignments. Frankly, if town post more from their hearts, and you can detect that, wouldn't that make the game rather easy?

The question is, what is the scum motivation for that post? If it is literally just the tone/effort/style, it's not a case. To make it a case, I'd want to know

why

that tone benefits scum over town.

I'm not reading anything into Aeronaut mentioning it: he is drawing Newbie attention to what they should be doing, with the first example he had. Actually, if anything, I give him slight town-cred for it. It's just that the example wasn't great. Hardly surprising: even now 2 of 9 players haven't posted.

[UpTooLate]

I don't want to be argumentative, I really don't, but:

I've noticed town seems to post more from their heart

I'm a hard-headed man of facts and figures. It's head, head, head. To "post from the heart" implies an emotional investment in a forum game, which you won't see from me. I will play to win, hard, but with no heart, all head.

And that will be the same as both alignments. Frankly, if town post more from their hearts, and you can detect that, wouldn't that make the game rather easy?

The question is, what is the scum motivation for that post? If it is literally just the tone/effort/style, it's not a case. To make it a case, I'd want to know

why

that tone benefits scum over town.

I'm not reading anything into Aeronaut mentioning it: he is drawing Newbie attention to what they should be doing, with the first example he had. Actually, if anything, I give him slight town-cred for it. It's just that the example wasn't great. Hardly surprising: even now 2 of 9 players haven't posted.

I didn't mean an emotional post. I meant a post like this. This seems like you sat down and just typed it. You didn't think too much into it, it doesn't feel like you had to really considering your wording. Stuff like that. I too like to see hard facts, because like you said, tone/effort/style do not make a case alone. I do believe in "too town to be town" (though I know not everyone does, same as "too scum to be scum") and if I feel like someone is coming across like that, I will take take tone/effort/style into consideration to help me form my read.

[firelord111]

im very sorry i dont think i can play a game this long
mod can you find a replace for me ?

Request noted.

[YawningAngel]

Hi, my name is YawningAngel, I'm an alcoholic...

I don't have much to offer, but I'll answer the questions because I have to do /something/

1. Extract information. We're unlikely to get a scum day one, so the priority should be to find out as much as we can about everyone involved.
2. I have no idea how scum should play in day-talk games, but I imagine they can rely on more coordination than I'm used to in IRL mafia. There's only so much you can do with two scum though (bussing and the like seems absurd when it's half your team).
3. I prefer not to guess with no information.

[YawningAngel]

Oh fuck, I did not see the two pages after first page. Will post more relevant stuff in a few.

[YawningAngel]

Currently, I favour KAAG's perspective on throwing out information. His posts thus far seem well-constructed and logical, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt. With that in mind, and following his advice:

VOTE: UpTooLate

We can see what she says. As a note for any very new players,

please do not vote UpTooLate to L-1 at this point in time

.

[UpTooLate]

Currently, I favour KAAG's perspective on throwing out information. His posts thus far seem well-constructed and logical, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt. With that in mind, and following his advice:

VOTE: UpTooLate

We can see what she says. As a note for any very new players,

please do not vote UpTooLate to L-1 at this point in time

.

I'm assuming this is a non rvs vote, in which case, what is your reasoning? What advice were you following exactly?

Another thing:

2. I have no idea how scum should play in day-talk games, but I imagine they can rely on more coordination than I'm used to in IRL mafia. There's only so much you can do with two scum though (bussing and the like seems absurd when it's half your team).

I'll disagree with the bussing sentiment, as I've seen it more than once with 2 mafia. Though I don't always agree with it, I don't discredit that scum would try to do this. Especially later on in the game.

[YawningAngel]

I don't believe in RVS. If you don't have any intention of lynching someone, your vote is entirely meaningless.

eventually, someone will get put to L-2 (that's the symbol for 2 votes away from lynch for any genuine first time players) and they will start feeling the pressure to respond seriously, moving us out of RVS and into the game proper

Essentially this. The two people I can meaningfully put pressure on at this point are you and KAAG. I find what he's written to be pretty on-point, and what you've written to be... eh. I come down on his side on the heart/head thing.

I'm not a hugely experienced mafia player, so I guess it's plausible that someone would bus with 2 scum, but it seems like a huge risk that I wouldn't personally ever favour taking. Then again, I'm not the kind of person who can pull off that sort of magnificent bastardry.

[UpTooLate]

Question, if you don't believe in RVS, how do you believe the best way to break the ice is in a new game? How would you prefer to start to get information?

[YawningAngel]

I think randomly quizzing people is fine, I just think the votes are meaningless. Nobody is under the serious impression that they'll actually be killed at random (I presume) and the coercive effect of a vote is derived entirely from the possibility that you might actually get lynched if you don't provide an accounting for your actions. I think the scumminess of refusing to participate is a far more powerful motivator than having one person's vote on your for no good reason.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I've always preferred RVS to RQS (that's Random Vote Stage vs Random Question Stage for anyone who's new and didn't read the IC post in full). However, in this game, the three questions Aeronaut posted have led to me having a read already, and I find it very rare to get that with RVS by page 3. I may need to reconsider my opinion on that.

Decent town lean on SummerInWonderland. I'm either playing with Meryl Streep or she is in her first game, and everything about her posts coming from a first-game-player says town to me.

I have fractional leans on a couple of others, but I'll let them fully form before expanding.

[Aeronaut]

I invite you to look at my completed games:

Newbie 1675 (was town, town won)
Open 623 (was town, town lost)
Open 626 (was town, town won)

And compare. (Note: in 626, I did post very drunk on a few occasions, should be easy to spot).

As far as being a brand new player goes, no, definitely not. I played my first game in 2003 on the America's Army forum, and this is somewhere around my 20th game.

These all check out to me as being pretty similar to your current posting. I think my original issue, (especially in newbie games), is that a lot of the time there are those who put a lot of effort into sounding pro-town, to cover up their scum role. With your most recent few posts though, I'm feeling pretty good about you, and actually am kind of glad to have another player on the site who's not going to be all cryptic and sarcastic. Welcome!

3. ok my gut reqaction is SIW being scum or at least scummy. imo u prolly have some idea of what you are doing if you use a gif and vote in your first post where you also say how confused you but thats just me.

I know how to use bbcodes. More on topic: I don't like how Aatami throws shade my direction in my post without actually committing to a vote on me. he seems like hes being sneaky

We have two weeks until deadline and knowing how to post a picture shouldn't be scummy. Town should be looking for actual evidence. It sounds like you know more than you let on because you're scared to actually vote me

vote: aatami

I don't mean to be mean but I think he might be the bad guy. I don't have much to go on but this is my best guess for right now

The top part of this post is actually a really good point. Granted, I feel like there are a few people doing that, but I'm not a big fan of aatami throwing mad shade without really committing.

I don't want to be argumentative, I really don't, but:

I've noticed town seems to post more from their heart

I'm a hard-headed man of facts and figures. It's head, head, head. To "post from the heart" implies an emotional investment in a forum game, which you won't see from me. I will play to win, hard, but with no heart, all head.

And that will be the same as both alignments. Frankly, if town post more from their hearts, and you can detect that, wouldn't that make the game rather easy?

The question is, what is the scum motivation for that post? If it is literally just the tone/effort/style, it's not a case. To make it a case, I'd want to know

why

that tone benefits scum over town.

I'm not reading anything into Aeronaut mentioning it: he is drawing Newbie attention to what they should be doing, with the first example he had. Actually, if anything, I give him slight town-cred for it. It's just that the example wasn't great. Hardly surprising: even now 2 of 9 players haven't posted.

What I think she meant is more like posting organically; e.g. scum are always going to feel pretty awkward and are going to be trying to fit in, and if you really look at their posts, you can tell when some of their points are fluff, fabricated, or just plain freaking stupid. This is

especially

true in Newbie games, because more experienced players are better at hiding that. However, with enough practice, you can read anybody.

For example, I'm leaning UpTooLate as town right now; her posting seems pretty genuine and has a general logic to it.

Hi, my name is YawningAngel, I'm an alcoholic...

I don't have much to offer, but I'll answer the questions because I have to do /something/

VOTE: YawningAngel

For example, here's a player who's trying to look busy.

1. Extract information. We're unlikely to get a scum day one, so the priority should be to find out as much as we can about everyone involved.

Why are you already assuming we won't get scum Day 1? That's what I plan to do. Why are you already assuming we're going to have a mislynch?

2. I have no idea how scum should play in day-talk games, but I imagine they can rely on more coordination than I'm used to in IRL mafia. There's only so much you can do with two scum though (bussing and the like seems absurd when it's half your team).

You'd be surprised. While a hard bus [attacking/lynching your partner without the real need to] may be harder to pull off, a lot of bussing does happen even with just two scum later in the day. We can't rule that out after a flip or two.

Currently, I favour KAAG's perspective on throwing out information. His posts thus far seem well-constructed and logical, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of any doubt. With that in mind, and following his advice:

VOTE: UpTooLate

We can see what she says. As a note for any very new players,

please do not vote UpTooLate to L-1 at this point in time

.

What? He's not scumreading UTL as far as I know.

[Aeronaut]

I've always preferred RVS to RQS (that's Random Vote Stage vs Random Question Stage for anyone who's new and didn't read the IC post in full). However, in this game, the three questions Aeronaut posted have led to me having a read already, and I find it very rare to get that with RVS by page 3. I may need to reconsider my opinion on that.

Newbie games in my experience usually take a significant amount longer to really get going, and often stagnate early on; this is mostly because Newbies are more conservative with their vote, when they don't need to be. Votes are your weapon; use them to your advantage!

That's why I like to post questions when I'm the IC, because RVS is so slow among newbies because it's tougher to get reads from it.

[Aeronaut]

Town/Leantown

UpTooLate
KickAssAndGiggle
Ryu Ogami

Null

SummerInWonderland
firelord111/Replacement
heyboxgaminig

Possibly Scum

Aatami
YawningAngel

[SummerInWonderland]

The top part of this post is actually a really good point. Granted, I feel like there are a few people doing that, but I'm not a big fan of aatami throwing mad shade without really committing.

Who else is doing this? I haven't seen anything else like it maybe I'm missing something?
Also I am curious (and curiouser) why did you put me in the null section? with the two people who haven't really posted.
Also what makes aatami less worth pushing than YawnAngel?

[YawningAngel]

I'm not making any specific effort to look busy. You posted those questions to answer, and I figured answering them was vastly more constructive than anything else on offer (having only seen page one). So I answered the questions. The ones you posted. If you find answering them to be gratuitous, that reflects more on you than on me.

As for not getting a scum: our chances if we lynch randomly are 1/5 and I don't think we can produce analysis so good it puts the odds in our favour on day 1 (or at least, I can't).

[UpTooLate]

What I think she meant is more like posting organically; e.g. scum are always going to feel pretty awkward and are going to be trying to fit in, and if you really look at their posts, you can tell when some of their points are fluff, fabricated, or just plain freaking stupid.

YES! That's actually a much better way to say what I meant. Thanks.

Hi, my name is YawningAngel, I'm an alcoholic...

I don't have much to offer, but I'll answer the questions because I have to do /something/

VOTE: YawningAngel

For example, here's a player who's trying to look busy.

1. Extract information. We're unlikely to get a scum day one, so the priority should be to find out as much as we can about everyone involved.

Why are you already assuming we won't get scum Day 1? That's what I plan to do. Why are you already assuming we're going to have a mislynch?

I didn't notice these, but they're really good points. Had they just answered the question and moved on, it would have been a lot less suspicious because at that point nobody really had much to offer.

Also, when they voted to "pressure" me, they didn't try to engage me at all. Didn't ask me for my reads so far, why I answered or responded to something how I did. They just gave a very vague surface level reason to like KAAG as opposed to me. Also, YA, why were myself and KAAG the only 2 you could "put meaningful pressure on" at that point? Other people had been posting as well. Again, had you have actually done something to pressure me, that would make more sense, but you didn't. You could have applied a "pressure vote" anywhere at that time.

VOTE: YawningAngel

P. Edit: We aren't "randomly lynching" anybody, and I'm not sure where you got that from. Though D1 does often result in a ML, that's not

always

the case, and the fact that you've resigned yourself to that is bothersome.

[UpTooLate]

Town/Leantown

UpTooLate
KickAssAndGiggle
Ryu Ogami

Null

SummerInWonderland
firelord111/Replacement
heyboxgaminig

Possibly Scum

Aatami
YawningAngel

Can you elaborate on why Ryu is town for you?

My list is almost identical, with a few changes. I have summer in a town spot with you and KAAG, Ryu is null with the other 2, and my scum candidates are the same.

[Aeronaut]

The top part of this post is actually a really good point. Granted, I feel like there are a few people doing that, but I'm not a big fan of aatami throwing mad shade without really committing.

Who else is doing this? I haven't seen anything else like it maybe I'm missing something?
Also I am curious (and curiouser) why did you put me in the null section? with the two people who haven't really posted.
Also what makes aatami less worth pushing than YawnAngel?

I had thought that someone else was doing it, but I guess I was wrong. My bad!

You're in the null section because I don't have a feeling on you either way yet.

They're both worth pushing; but YA did a lot more things that I deemed to look fake / forced.

[Aeronaut]

Town/Leantown

UpTooLate
KickAssAndGiggle
Ryu Ogami

Null

SummerInWonderland
firelord111/Replacement
heyboxgaminig

Possibly Scum

Aatami
YawningAngel

Can you elaborate on why Ryu is town for you?

My list is almost identical, with a few changes. I have summer in a town spot with you and KAAG, Ryu is null with the other 2, and my scum candidates are the same.

Also, had thought I had said this, but his answer to my questions in this post.

He's mostly a slight townread right now.

[Ryu Ogami]

Oh right. I forgot something yesterday

UNVOTE: UpTooLate

What I did yesterday, was (again) a joke and me trying to fit in. I'm kind of like a middle point between KAAG and UpTooLate: I'm trying to use my head but at the same time trying to sound organical.

I'm kind of with YawningAngel here. The statistics are against us but that doesn't mean we should not try. Who knows? We might get one.

[Aeronaut]

:/ well strike that townread.

[Ryu Ogami]

Oh, and I forgot something:

I know it seems I'm jumping on a bandwagon but:

FoS: YawningAngel

I know it's only a gut feeling but something about you makes me suspicious.