Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Sayaka Maizono]

Ynaut
VOTE: knightmare

Anything else you wanna add?

OK.

Your reaction towards Sakura was really bad. I feel you aren't considering the motivations behind her posts and instead are just posturing here. As a few examples: what is the purpose in calling a post on page like 2 "reaching"? Who do you think is more likely to "reach" on page 2, scum who wants to blend in and avoid tipping anyone off; or town who starts with the game with no information and thus wants to push around to get reactions? Both of which are things you said in this thread btw so I know you're aware of this. I think you saw her pushing you and got worried that it would gain traction, and overreacted.

Moreover for someone who acts like they caught scum straight out of RVS phase you haven't so much as voted her and instead keep your vote on the RVS wagon you joined? If you were going for reactions here you should have voted her. I think what you did is more like scum testing the waters to see if their push would be well received before wanting to commit to it, than town who is believing of what they're saying.

Your entire angle contradicts itself tbh, and it's for this reason I'm voting you.

"Refuse to believe" ? That's a rather hard line to take so early in the game when your reasons for me being scum aren't that good in the first place. Not sure if you're scum or just extremely subjective in your scum hunting, but either way it's not a good look.

This is a kind of thing I think scum are more likely to say than town because all it is a bullshit neutral sounding comment that's designed to look good and posture. If you were town and you were actually unsure out of her posts what is the point in throwing that "it's not a good look on the end" if not to throw shade at her? And if you were town and thought she was more likely to be scum, you would have said as much instead of acting unsure about it (which again points to being afraid to commit to it).

2) I did want to generate discussion/reactions, and it's worked. You bit and now others can weigh in on our interactions.

"You bit and now others can weigh in on our interactions"? Plzzzz.

[Sayaka Maizono]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are

caught and shouldn't be.

I still disagree. I think townies are just as likely to attack bad cases against them. I've caught a lot go scum for this very thing when they push BS reasons for scum reads.

And you think scum has any reason to go out of their way to push a mislynch on page 2??

[Sayaka Maizono]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Y

[Sayaka Maizono]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are caught and shouldn't be.

Can you clarify what this is about? I agree on defensiveness being a scum tell but if this was the case, your vote on him should be a legitimate vote, not an RV. Am I wrong?

[chilledtea]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Y

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

[mhsmith0]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are

caught and shouldn't be.

I still disagree. I think townies are just as likely to attack bad cases against them. I've caught a lot go scum for this very thing when they push BS reasons for scum reads.

Out of curiosity, knight, have you caught scum for "BS reasons for scum reads" right of the RVS gate? Or is that a process that happens later on?

[Sayaka Maizono]

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

I probably agree on Sakura. Y knight?

[Lowell]

Oh hey knight is scum. Good find, whoever started this. Early wagons rule. BLOOD!

VOTE: knight

[texcat]

For reactions.

Do you think it's alignment indicative?

Good enough for my first vote at the very least.
Why did you change your RVS vote to sheep an RVS vote?
If you wanted a wagon you'd have done that on your very first vote.

Yep. Good enough for a first vote. Not good enough for Knight to have to defend. Plus Knight's defense stinks. For reactions, really?

[chilledtea]

Bcoz ynot.

Anyway, I think knight is town, you are town, and that Sakura is town. This was indeed useful.

I probably agree on Sakura. Y knight?

Because his talk with sakura didn't seem that scummy. RVS is supposed to be for reactions. He did generate it.
My initial read of him is town.

[knightmare]

Yep. Good enough for a first vote. Not good enough for Knight to have to defend. Plus Knight's defense stinks. For reactions, really?

Sakura's reason was because I sheeped an RVS vote. You agree that's scummy?

Also, seriously - why the fuck else would I sheep an RVS vote that was clearly going nowhere while blatantly saying I was shamelessly sheeping it if not for reactions?

JFC you guys lack critical thinking skills.

[knightmare]

Oh hey knight is scum. Good find, whoever started this. Early wagons rule. BLOOD!

VOTE: knight

Stats say at least one of the people on my wagon by now is scum.

Is it you?

VOTE: Lowell

More seriously - did you actually read anything or are you just parroting off of someone you can't even readily recall after 2 pages of reading?

[knightmare]

You are correct. I actually do believe defensiveness leans more scum. Especially if scum thinks they are

caught and shouldn't be.

I still disagree. I think townies are just as likely to attack bad cases against them. I've caught a lot go scum for this very thing when they push BS reasons for scum reads.

Out of curiosity, knight, have you caught scum for "BS reasons for scum reads" right of the RVS gate? Or is that a process that happens later on?

Not RVS, no. It tends to hold more firmly as the game progresses, but that could be as early as EOD1 depending on the type of content that is produced. I find that sometimes scum struggle to come up with reasons to push townies, so they have to make 'narratives' that frame someone in a bad way. That's why I find it important to challenge people on points that I think are bad/not scummy and force them to explain their POV more clearly. It's not fool proof because bad =/= scum all the time but it's constructive behavior nonetheless. Make them be on record so that it can be reviewed later if need be.

[Garmr]

I'm liking sakura hana for town don't think I need to really expand on why.

I don't find knightmares intial reaction scummy or townie I feel like it's null for early game, Jumping onto another wagon and switching your votes in rvs isn't alignment indicative. His latter talks with sakura seem a bit overly defensive but I don't know knightmare enough to attribute that to a trait. I can see a newer player being defensive but when I went to meta him this is his second game and he hasn't finished the other.

Knightmare have you played on other sites you seem pretty knowledgeable?

also

UNVOTE: lowell

VOTE: lowell

Oh hey knight is scum. Good find, whoever started this. Early wagons rule. BLOOD!

VOTE: knight

this is the worst vote on the wagon so far.

this vote's now serious.

[Sakura Hana]

1) Again, you cannot tell me how I would've used my vote. The fact I made an RVS before wagoning doesn't mean shit. You are reaching.
2) I did want to generate discussion/reactions, and it's worked. You bit and now others can weigh in on our interactions.

1) Ok let's see:

VOTE: Lowell

Don't lurk this time.

Last time I played with Expedience, I remember voting for that feather in his cap, and I'm tempted to do it again. But instead I'll vote for another piece of ridiculous head apparel.

VOTE: Boonskiies

VOTE: garmr

I'll do what I wanna lurk.

All of these were perfectly fine for sheeping, yet you didn't you only did so later.

2) I "bit"? That's funny since i could've completely ignored your vote, instead i engaged you on it by asking you a question, something that can't actually be ignored.

Now on another subject:

@Anyone townreading me: Why? I haven't done even anything remotely townie (unless you count my interactions with knight townie and if so why?)

P-Edit:

I'm liking sakura hana for town don't think I need to really expand on why.

What if i want you to expand on why?

[Sakura Hana]

Wait what the heck? did you just unvote a person and revoted the same person? what the hell? XD

[chilledtea]

I am finding you town because of your interaction with knightmare. It town vs town imo.

[Garmr]

Wait what the heck? did you just unvote a person and revoted the same person? what the hell? XD

For the lols

P-Edit:

I'm liking sakura hana for town don't think I need to really expand on why.

What if i want you to expand on why?

Then I would. I'm going to guess you are going to ask.

It's the fact you keeped pushing knightmare for information when you didn't have to while maintaining logical reasoning and supporting your beliefs, it just flows off naturally and not artificial like a scum post would. Even through I disagree with you about it being scummy to switch the vote i can see your thought process and how you got there through your posts.

also what's your thoughts on lowell?

he omgussed me and then jumped onto the main wagon and you said earlier that those votes were making you feel uneasy.

[knightmare]

I don't find knightmares intial reaction scummy or townie I feel like it's null for early game,

Jumping onto another wagon and switching your votes in rvs isn't alignment indicative

. His latter talks with sakura seem a bit overly defensive but I don't know knightmare enough to attribute that to a trait. I can see a newer player being defensive but when I went to meta him this is his second game and he hasn't finished the other.

Knightmare have you played on other sites you seem pretty knowledgeable?

Bold is the point I've been stressing the entire time. Amazing.

You're right, this is my second game here on MS. I've been playing Mafia for a while, but I think I'm still adjusting to how things are done here so I feel like the new kid in school or something - which might be where some of the edge comes from. But I also maintain Sakura's reason was bad though, thus reacting as I did.

[Sakura Hana]

also what's your thoughts on lowell?

His OMGUS vote was the first thign that caught my attention, but also was accompanied by a defiant tone, thought it was townie back then. Haven't looked at all the votes on the wagon so far, it's just that suddenly sayaka and boon voted in succession and gave me a chill. Probably my gut trying to tell me something.
I still dont think Knight's very townie, but if he is the people that blindly sheeped me would be the first ppl i would look at... I usually have trouble convincing ppl of my reads since they come from gut most of the time, and ppl just blindly sheeping me gives me a bad feeling.

[Almost50]

My understanding was the defensiveness WAS a scum tell. Not a "only scum do it" thing but something that leans scum more than town. Am I off base here? Admitted newbie (this is my third game and first participating in RVS) so maybe my theory background is weaker than I thought, so please do correct me if I'm mistaken.

yes, I think you are a bit off. but I'm not going to pretend to be almighty and all knowledgeable.

1- The thing is, you sign up for a game to PLAY in it, not to get lynched on D1. Both Town & Scum don't want to end up dying early.

2- A mislynch is bad for Town. If you're getting mislynched when you seriously want to play for the win (as opposed to just chillin' and having fun) it does bother you.

3- Bad reasoning is always irritating regardless. Whether you're Town (obviously) or Scum (being caught for the wrong reasons or a misunderstanding) sucks.

4- If Town: A VT would rather be the target of a NK (that's sometimes referred to as "an honourable death") to protect the PRs. A PR would not want to go down w/o actually using their ability to serve the town. Scum will also hate to take an early hit that might reduce their winning chances by a big chunk.

So, being defensive is NAI at best. It's more dependent on the overall mindset of the player, as well as their current emotional status regardless of their true alignment. It also depends on their experience.

That being set, let me irritate everyone even more by *Drum Roll*....

VOTE: knightmare (L-2)

[Almost50]

VOTE: Sayaka Maizono

Early town points for chilled

[Sakura Hana]

That being said, i can see sayaka's reasoning coming from a town perspective, i'd want more from boon, and lowell

P-Edit:

Unvote

Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

[mhsmith0]

My understanding was the defensiveness WAS a scum tell. Not a "only scum do it" thing but something that leans scum more than town. Am I off base here? Admitted newbie (this is my third game and first participating in RVS) so maybe my theory background is weaker than I thought, so please do correct me if I'm mistaken.

yes, I think you are a bit off. but I'm not going to pretend to be almighty and all knowledgeable.
...That being set, let me irritate everyone even more by *Drum Roll*....

VOTE: knightmare (L-2)

Non-serious vote to put knight at L-2 because... ?

[Almost50]

Unvote
Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

Sakura back from yellow to green.