Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #975 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:01 pm

In post 9, Maestro wrote:/confirm VT let the Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry begin

Then lots of votes end up on Maestro

In post 30, Maestro wrote:Question for those with potentially serious votes: where is the Scum motivation for me / my posts so far?

In post 9, Maestro wrote:/confirm VT let the Angry WIFOM OMGUS bastardry begin

To answer Maestro's post 30, see above quote - Scum motivation in putting out WIFOM bastardry? Hrm.......

In post 55, Maestro wrote:
In post 54, nnn_thekushmountains wrote:You have 5/7 votes on you.
Mafia is now either eager to lynch you or not lynch you.
So they are willing to sacrifice looking townie to accomplish these tasks.

Not necessarily, at all, in any way?
This is a Mini, meaning 2-4 Scum. Meaning 9-11 Town. Meaning this wagon (of 5 players) could easily be 100% TvT and Scum could just sit back and watch it happen.
They don't have to want to lynch me and they don't have to not want to lynch me. It's page 2, page 3. They could easily ignore this wagon and nobody would notice, or care. So you're just wrong?!?

Not sure if you legit believe you're right or if you're pullin' stuff out your bum for fun.

In post 9, Maestro wrote:WIFOM bastardry

The above by Maestro (including the bolded) are the aforementioned WIFOM bastardry.

In post 79, Maestro wrote:
In post 75, a plain farmer wrote:I don't like that Jeanne and Maestro "claimed" VT, even in a for-the-lulz kind of way.

I don't like that you're assuming or implying that I was claiming "for-the-lulz"
I don't think anything I've done so far implies I was claiming "for-the-lulz"

It was a serious claim, in my first post, made out of frustration and because I knew it would give me something to work with RIGHT out of the gate. Tell me where I'm wrong in my train of thought here, and tell me why claiming VT in a Closed Normal Setup is inherently scummy / something that you don't like.

In post 9, Maestro wrote:WIFOM bastardry

Again, more WIFOM and not much content. See below on the real discrepancy.

In post 192, Maestro wrote:Wisdom, Jake is Town

FIRST CONCRETE READ OF THE GAME. Hey we actually get some content from him! (Jake is town, he says).

In post 196, Maestro wrote:
In post 193, Wisdom wrote:Why?

Gut for now, I'm at work phoneposting

OKAY MAYBE NOT => He kinda backs off on his townread when asked for reasoning.

In post 441, Maestro wrote:
In post 351, Jake from State Farm wrote:
In post 348, nnn_thekushmountains wrote:@jake
why is Wisdom scum or bad for refusing to vote "obvious scum" when there are like 11 other other people also not voting for "obvious scum"?

He's not scum for not voting kill, he's scum because he's not playing like a townie.
He's avoiding answering questions
from at least 2 people, he provides little to no actual substance,
when asked to explain himself he does in as few words as possible, if he actually does it at all
, he's not doing anything to progress the game and
he's not even attempting to convince others to follow him
.

I think the bolded is the only thing of importance here but it's part of what leads me to think/assume Wisdom is Town. ScumWisdom is usually pushier and grabs for "townbloc" control more often. The underlined is null and par-for-the-course with him, sorry Jake. It's not alignment-indicative.

VOTE: kushmountains

Other than this and post 364, which is basically a scumslip, I have no inspiration in this game. Killthestory makes this entirely unenjoyable to play and I wish one of us would be force-replaced or lynched or killed very soon. If you actually aren't an alt you have a lot of growth to do on this site before you go around calling established players and sound strategies bad. As it is, you're making yourself look like a fuckwit.

This vibes badly, and it feels pretty forced towards the end. His grab at saying it was a scumslip (And I quote the post below) is pretty weak, in my opinion. And again, there's a contradiction that comes up later.

In post 364, nnn_thekushmountains wrote:I enjoy Wisdom's sparse style and I may try to emulate it in my next town game.

This is not basically a scumslip - he's saying, he may try to do it in his next game where he rolls town (since, you can roll scum or 3p, you know). It can easily be read in that it says nothing about this game and I think that's how it was meant. Pretty weak.

In post 442, Maestro wrote:I'm actually legitimately upset about this. I joined to play with Wisdom and Jake (and Aristophanes), and to experience and FA-modded game. Wisdom seems Town and even if he and Jake are duking it out, I appreciate that I'm getting all the good I remember from Jake and none of the rage I used to see from time to time. It's really disheartening to see somebody (KTS) appear out of the woodwork and be allowed to feel like they're the shit and think they already know everything and that everybody and everything else is wrong.

I expect, after prolonged interaction, you will become the second player on this site that I legitimately develop a hatred for. You are a black hole for this game for me, and I don't give a flying fuck if somebody tries to call me out for an appeal to emotion here, because I am emotional but I'm not appealing to anybody or anything.

I'm blocking you, and I'm not dealing with you in this game. Die tonight for all I care; I wish I could shoot you myself. I'm not replacing out of this game and I'm not giving you the time of day if you're going to come onto this site and ruin it for me. I don't have to deal with that bullshit and I won't.

In post 444, Maestro wrote:
In post 442, Maestro wrote:I'm blocking you, and I'm not dealing with you in this game.

Also, be advised this is 100% serious. If you want me to respond to anything KTS says from now on you will have to quote it because I will not see it in this thread.

In post 496, Maestro wrote:Give me one good reason I shouldn't hammer you, prick

In post 497, Killthestory wrote:Whoa watch the disrespect lad, ill have to report you to the GM if you keep up with that

probably because if you hammer town it secures your lynch tommorow

In post 498, Maestro wrote:You know what. No. I'm not in the fucking mood for you anymore. Get out of this game.

VOTE: killthestory

In post 499, Maestro wrote:Lynch me tomorrow. We have the room for that mislynch, but you I will watch die with pride no matter what your fucking alignment is. Jesus Christ.

In post 612, Maestro wrote:
In post 608, Wisdom wrote:
In post 602, Maestro wrote:
In post 601, Maestro wrote:He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

HEY WHATS THIS

SEE ABOVE -> MAESTRO SAYS HE'S VOTING KTS BECAUSE HE HATES THE PLAYER AND NOT THE PLAY. THEN HE DISAGREES WITH WHY KTS WAS AT L-1. GREAT!

Side note:

In post 504, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 501, nnn_thekushmountains wrote:Maestro started out the game nice and active and stuff. Now of a sudden it's like he's a different person. Not interactive and all he can talk about is how much he hates KTS.
What happened bro?
Is it not obvious??
You read the game right???

To be honest, it's not obvious to me, and I've read most of the game :/

So I'd really like to know what I'm missing here.

In post 564, Maestro wrote:
In post 556, Wisdom wrote:Alright. Yes, the game would be much better with KTS in here. He was obvtown and a good scumhunter, as proven by the fact he caught Dierfire.

And really? We didn't have numbers for a lynch like one week before the deadline? That's the weakest argument ever.

1) You misunderstand, I mean this game is more enjoyable for me without him in it. Regardless of whether he was a good scumhunter or not. Catching 1 Scum in 1 game does not a good scumhunter make.

2) Again you misunderstand. I mean we had the numbers for the ML - and yes we only know it's a ML after the fact, but with 1 Scum gone last night I'm comfortable not giving a shit that we made that mistake yesterday.

Wisdom, let's be honest with eachother.
There's no situation, even the expectation of a death-tunnel on somebody not-me, in which I would leave you alive if I were Scum in this game.
I knew I'd get scrutiny for such an AtE hammer and I don't give a shit. Wise up. I'm Town. Now move on.

PEDIT: I tried a bunch of different permutations and got a game from 2003 (before any of us joined) and a game from 2015 that Jeanne was in but Wisdom was not. WTF?

In post 9, Maestro wrote:WIFOM bastardry

[/spoiler]
More WIFOM by Maestro.

Conclusion: Scum Maestro

VOTE: Maestro

@Maestro
1) Why is my case on you wrong?
2) Who are you scumreading? Who are you anything-reading? I've read your ISO and I seriously don't know.

@Jake
1) How is that not a case?
2) How is it less of a case than the one on me?
3) How am I wrong about this at all and why do you think so? Seriously why do I put effort into this stuff if people are just gonna be like "LOL U HAS NO CASE" and vote me -__-

Jake from State Farm · Post Post #976 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:07 pm

In post 973, SnarkySnowman wrote:Did you even read anything I wrote in said quote wall?

No

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #977 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:13 pm

Then how do you know if it's a case or not?

Jake from State Farm · Post Post #978 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:22 pm

Ok let's respond to some of this.

1. Trying to imply post 9 was scummy or vote worthy is

2. Nothing wrong with what he posted in the bold, this wifom bastardry means nothing and certainly isn't alignment indicative

3. You still talking about wifom?

4. Why do you have issue with maestro saying "so and so is town" yet you don't have issues with anyone else including yourself doing it? :wake me up when you post something scummy from maestro:

5. Saying gut doesn't mean he's backing off. Like seriously have you never played Mafia before? People have been using gut as a reason for years now.

6. "Vibes bad" & "feels pretty forced" unfortunately that's impossible to discern. I've been accused of similar things and those people were wrong, I've accused people of these kind of things and have been wrong. So yeah you are basically you are using a bias already to make your decision (assuming you're town)

7. I could easily see how that looked like a scum slip. I even thought about it myself when I first read it but decided that alone wasn't enough for me.

I'm going to stop now, the reason is for the very same reason I gave earlier. Iso quote walls are very easily to manipulate and by that i mean quote something and use conf.bias to say something is scummy. I was notorious for doing it myself, I don't do it anymore. There is a reason for that, it's because it's not effective AND nobody listens to people who do them.

Did you notice nobody really commented on yours? Cause nobody fucking cares about a dumb ass quote wall where you basically conf.bias the shit out of it.

You have to point to specific examples and explain why they are scummy, and what the scum intent is and why a townie couldn't or at least shouldn't do them. You have failed at that.

P.edit because I already explained why they aren't cases. I just explained again in this post also.

I have been accused of conf.bias far too much to know that your entire quote wall is basicall a wall of conf.bias which makes it pointless to read.

a plain farmer · Post Post #979 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:17 pm

I feel like Snarky's case is the result of him clicking the Q+ button a few times and then finding something to label as scummy in each one. It's the kind of case you put together when you feel you need a case, not when you've actually found one.

For clarity, I'd like to note that Maestro isn't denying that he hammered KTS out of personal dislike. What he's asserting is that KTS wasn't brought to L-1 out of personal dislike (that is, the other voters on the wagon thought he was scum, and as one of those other voters I can confirm that).

Jake from State Farm · Post Post #980 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:44 pm

In post 975, SnarkySnowman wrote:SEE ABOVE -> MAESTRO SAYS HE'S VOTING KTS BECAUSE HE HATES THE PLAYER AND NOT THE PLAY. THEN HE DISAGREES WITH WHY KTS WAS AT L-1. GREAT!

Why are you trying to paint this scummy when it's actually the truth?

Aristo - reasons for kts include opportunistic and tone/composition fee scummy
Dier - scum so who cares
Me - gave reasons. Basically wasn't playing like a townie
Farmer - issues with the 180 on me, little opportunistic, felt like he could capitalize on a possible Jake wagon
Kurio - he's the only one I have no freaking clue why he voted kts. He was more focused on maestro and all he says is it should be obvious why he's voting kts and that voting kts is easier

So nobody else voted kts because of personal dislike. This just proves why wall of quotes suck. You do no actual research, you do no actual fact checking. You manipulate posts to fit your mold, knowing people aren't going to fact check. Well now that's the second time I've fact checked you and you have come out a liar. I should just call you Donald Trump

Jake from State Farm · Post Post #981 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:54 pm

In post 975, SnarkySnowman wrote:1) How is that not a case?
2) How is it less of a case than the one on me?
3) How am I wrong about this at all and why do you think so? Seriously why do I put effort into this stuff if people are just gonna be like "LOL U HAS NO CASE" and vote me -__-

1. Because it isn't. I've explained why twice now.
2. It's less of a case because mine actually shows how you have tried to deceive people. How you changed your story multiple times when questioned and how when you get backed into the corner by me, you attack with ludicrous accusations that nobody really agrees with. Even your biggest ally in wisdom doubts your alignment. Did your case convince people they are wrong about maestro? Uh nope not that I've seen.

3. You are wrong and I've explained why already.

4. Donald, poor Donald. People aren't voting you because "lol u has no case" people are voting you because of how you reacted to me questioning you. It's fairly obvious when the guy you were buddying even speaks out against you. Did you not see this post?

In post 866, Wisdom wrote:I was about to say that Jake was setting up another bullshit tunnel on Snarky, but I actually don't like Snarky in this exchange.

The "exchange" he's referring to is the back and forth you and I had when I questioned your 180 on farmer. The one where you said you sheeped a town read and I proved that wasn't true.

Sorry Donald, people aren't voting you because "lol u has no case" people are voting you because your play looks scummy

Frozen Angel · Post Post #982 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:07 pm

Vote Count 2.8Wisdom (2) : Jake from State Farm , Jeanne11
SnarkySnowman (2) : Wisdom , a plain farmer
Maestro (1) : SnarkySnowman
Masquerade (1) : Shiro

Not Voting (4) : Aristophanes , nnn_thekushmountains , Maestro , Masquerade

With 10 players alive it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2016-03-29 06:00:00)

Within Temptation : Our Solemn Hour

Spoiler: lyrics

Shiro · Post Post #983 (ISO) » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:38 pm

Vote:Snarky

Fixed

Aristophanes · Post Post #984 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:24 am

V/la until Mon/Tues.
Probably won't get any time to read up on any developments that happen until then.

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #985 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:06 am

Well, I guess you're right on a lot of those points Jake.

Still concerned about the lack of reads though, and the extreme AtE / Wifom he's been throwing out there, which to me does not look townie at all. Can you comment on that specifically?

Spoiler: This exchange in particular:

This rubbed me the wrong way pretty hard. To me, this felt forced. I have almost no understanding as to why he had so much hate for KTS. I really, really, really don't get it, and I don't see or understand the motivation behind it. He's been going with the AtE all game, so I feel pretty strongly like the point of this was to get away with a hammer on a townie without having to use any reasoning for why he's scum.

The rest of the quote wall was just to show all the AtE and wifom he's been pumping out compared to lack of scumhunting.

@Maestro

2) Who are you scumreading? Who are you anything-reading? I've read your ISO and I seriously don't know.

Wisdom · Post Post #986 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:11 am

Snarky needs rope

Maestro · Post Post #987 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:23 am

I'm not giving a reads list, since that seems to be what you're asking for.

PEDIT: Agreed, basically. But I want to do a reread now before I vote. I was having some thoughts once Jake noticed the timing inconsistencies with his insistence that he was sheeping a Townread.

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #988 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:28 am

I don't even want a readlist maestro, just like, someone you're reading as anything other than Jake as town and me as scum???? Is it wrong to ask what other people think of the game????

Maestro · Post Post #989 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:41 am

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #990 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:02 am

nnn_thekushmountains · Post Post #991 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:59 am

Ive been busy at work. I'm going to try to catch up this weekend.

Masquerade · Post Post #992 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:34 am

I'm conflicted!

Wisdom · Post Post #993 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:36 am

Masquerade · Post Post #994 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:52 am

I need a Maestro-flip to solve my conflict

Wisdom · Post Post #995 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:54 am

What's your conflict?

Masquerade · Post Post #996 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:10 am

I see the scumreads on Snarky, I get them and am inclined to think the same way. But Maestro's second-to-last post made me think he's going to look for a valid reason to vote Snarky so he can't be accused of simple omgus... And I think it's more likely for Maestro to flip scum over Snarky. I don't like his refusal to give reads.

Masquerade · Post Post #997 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:12 am

But I don't know Maestro, this is my first game with him and maybe he does this as town. And I'm a gullible person and maybe I'm just too willing to believe Snarky when he defends himself. So that's kinda my conflict.

Wisdom · Post Post #998 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:44 am

Snarky really looks like scum, his push on Maestro is really forced

I understand your concerns but Snarky is the better lynch

SnarkySnowman · Post Post #999 (ISO) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:43 am

What part of it do you think is forced? I admit there was a good deal of conf bias in my quote wall but the reason for the initial read remains the same.