Newbie 1691 - Game Over

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Regarding point 5: what did I see as a scum slip?

[Ircher]

See #7 in 428.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

OK, but I didn't call that a scum slip...

[Ircher]

Eh, it doesn't matter. The scumslip part had more to do with Egg anyway.

[mhsmith0]

OK, but I didn't call that a scum slip...

You didn't explicitly, but it read as a scum point to me. After all, "let's policy lynch the vt" is kind of a scum move. Not sure where the "shame on you" part came from though.

[SummerInWonderland]

I really don't want to vote someone who is inactive or haven't participated much (i am still gonna go back and look at eggman tho)
UTL acted super scummy to me and she was active so that is why she was the best bet in my opinion. I have been pushing this pretty hard because its is something I felt confident on.
@Radja you posed a really hard question! I need to think on it more (I haven't overly thought about it because of my current thoughts on UTL)

[SummerInWonderland]

@Radja
I don't think it matters if you are town or scum when I say this
how utl acted/responded was scummy! unless you think her points had merit?

[mhsmith0]

I'm trying to decide if UTL was just tunneling, or was scum over-extending herself on a weak case. It's the whole "wrong because you're scum" or just "wrong because you're wrong" question. I mean, I can see why "know" might have really jumped out at her, and then she might stubbornly stick to that perspective. It felt genuine. Just wrong.

[SummerInWonderland]

she wasn't tunneling though- she switched between me and YA without hesitation.
and then she also dropped the case against me.
I don't understand the motive- if she was town why would she do that?
I am pressuring this because its what I see as the most scummy thing- she just dropped it with me.

[SummerInWonderland]

I also don't understand why she would "stubbornly stick to that perspective."
she doesn't strike me as an emotional player- idk...
if she had such strong feelings about YA why would she switch to me over a few words? like I didn't know saying the word "know" would make her competently go against me. Her points before that were weak I think too. she misrepresented me too and I just saw a lot I didn't see as a town motive.

This is my best case right now! it makes it hard with so many replaced or MIA players.. sigh
lol just looking KAGG and I are the only players who have been here from the start who haven't been prodded or replaced (I am not trying to complain too much, just think thats kinda funny)

[mhsmith0]

yep, I 100% agree with your frustration. Now let me provide a nice big wall of content to help alleviate the problem

[Jackal711]

@mod:green nope is 2 hours away from replace deadline of 72 hours without posting. Unless he rejoins ASAP, please replace him.

The rule is 24 hours after the prod, which expired 2 hours ago.

Now seeking replacement for GreenNope
Still seeking a replacement for Aeronaut

[YawningAngel]

SIW, I will note that I was prodded before actually reaching the prod deadline.

Monstrously hungover at the moment, will weigh in in a bit

[Radja]

o I'm still scum-reading YA, but despite my best efforst there has been no momentum there.

So instead I'm going to go after another slot that increasingly reads scummy to me: VOTE: Aeronaut

So you're leaving a wagon with 2 votes, to join a wagon with 1 vote.
Tell me how Aeronaut's wagon has momentum, when he's not even here to defend against it?

I am not interested in an Aero lynch at all. I still think he is town, and I think we should give his replacement the chance to give us information. We can deal with Aero on a later day. Today's lynch should be Eggman. I'm willing to compromise on Yawning Angel, but I'd rather not.

@Radja: I agree that scum!Aero wouldn't have thought it a viable wagon, but neither would have town!Aero. Which means that he's casting a vote for reasons OTHER than honestly trying to get me lynched. Is there a town motive for this? What town motive could there possibly be? The closest town explanation is that he was just being lazy and decided to skim his way towards a vote. Which I guess isn't impossible, but that explanation feels lacking.

So what's the scum explanation? Probably that he wanted to turn me towards playing defense. Why did he want me playing defense after my YA case? WIFOM gets you explanations for YA being scum or town, but in either event it just feels tactical. And tactical voting is what scum do.

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to pressure you to see your reaction to it, so he could read you better. Unfortunately, I guess we'll never know.
A possible reason for him to do is as scum could be that you are pretty much a universal townread in this game, and by casting shade on you, others might question their read on you too.

I would be surprised if scum Aero would do this so late on day 1.

[Radja]

The

MAJOR

issue right now is the GreenNope slot.

The time is here where we ought to have a wagon and a counter wagon, as mhsmith0 says in 444 (I might not concur on which two but concept is right).

But we have a slot that is absolutely Null. Even though I think the UTL/Radja slot is quite possibly scum, I don't want to commit while this GreenNope slot is sitting there utterly unclear.

Of the slots we have, I could maybe live with an Egg lynch. I'm not sure he's scum, but I think a flip of either color will help to sort YA + Radja and practically confirm mhsmith if he flips town.

However, settling on a compromise lynch with this big Null sitting there is highly unsatisfying.

I think lynching a nullslot will not give us any information and if he flips town, we'll have nothing to work with on day 2. You said early in day 1 you liked using your head. If that's true, you should be able to see this.

[Radja]

@Radja
I don't think it matters if you are town or scum when I say this
how utl acted/responded was scummy! unless you think her points had merit?

It matters a lot if I'm town or scum, actually. There are 2 scum in this game, and so far, you're only pointing at me.
I can't answer for any of UTL's actions, but to me, it looked like she was very frustrated.

I want you to read it again and try to see things from her point of view.

I also want you to think about who else could be scum and talk to me about it.
What do you think about Eggman? Read the points I made, do they make sense to you?

I think you've shown a lot of promise, and I think you can definitely become a good player.
You do need to look at scum motivation in a post. Disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily make someone scum.

[YawningAngel]

As I see it, we can profit substantially in terms of information by asking Aero's successor to account for his actions, or potentially by him being killed off by scum (I imagine they'll strongly tend towards NKing the IC). Lynching Aero would be denying ourselves all that. Conversely, we've got everything we're going to get out of Eggman. Obviously I would strongly prefer not being lynched as a compromise - I don't think the arguments in favour of this stack up, in any case.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

The

MAJOR

issue right now is the GreenNope slot.

The time is here where we ought to have a wagon and a counter wagon, as mhsmith0 says in 444 (I might not concur on which two but concept is right).

But we have a slot that is absolutely Null. Even though I think the UTL/Radja slot is quite possibly scum, I don't want to commit while this GreenNope slot is sitting there utterly unclear.

Of the slots we have, I could maybe live with an Egg lynch. I'm not sure he's scum, but I think a flip of either color will help to sort YA + Radja and practically confirm mhsmith if he flips town.

However, settling on a compromise lynch with this big Null sitting there is highly unsatisfying.

I think lynching a nullslot will not give us any information and if he flips town, we'll have nothing to work with on day 2. You said early in day 1 you liked using your head. If that's true, you should be able to see this.

I didn't say I wanted to lynch the null slot though, did I, I said I wanted it to not BE a null slot before compromising.

You've either misread badly or are deliberately misrepresenting my words. Hopefully it's the former.

[SummerInWonderland]

I think you've shown a lot of promise, and I think you can definitely become a good player.
You do need to look at scum motivation in a post. Disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily make someone scum.

You don't think I looked at scum motivation in my case against UTL? also your second point is pretty obvious- disagreeing doesn't mean someone is scum!
also I really will get to your questions, look at your case and your points. currently in class tho!
I promise I will get to those tonight!! also
@YA still waiting for you to answer my question

[mhsmith0]

So you're leaving a wagon with 2 votes, to join a wagon with 1 vote.
Tell me how Aeronaut's wagon has momentum, when he's not even here to defend against it?

1) That's a bizarre statement. I would think you would have been aware that after you moved onto Egg, I was the only YA vote. Toss in KAAG's town read of YA, and board-wide shrug at my case, and I don't think there's much plausible room for this slot to get the D1 axe.
2) I agree that Aero's replacement needs to account for things. I'd be extremely hesitant to see L-1 or hammer before replacement gets here. But I'm not just going to keep things in limbo indefinitely. There's a case to be made here, and I'm pursuing it.

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to pressure you to see your reaction to it, so he could read you better. Unfortunately, I guess we'll never know.
A possible reason for him to do is as scum could be that you are pretty much a universal townread in this game, and by casting shade on you, others might question their read on you too.
I would be surprised if scum Aero would do this so late on day 1.

Because...?
Aero had been generally town read at the time, so he might have felt that pushing things a bit was a reasonable play. Why specifically does "late day 1" make this not consistent with scum!Aero?

[YawningAngel]

SIW which question?

[Radja]

As I see it, we can profit substantially in terms of information by asking Aero's successor to account for his actions, or potentially by him being killed off by scum (I imagine they'll strongly tend towards NKing the IC). Lynching Aero would be denying ourselves all that. Conversely, we've got everything we're going to get out of Eggman. Obviously I would strongly prefer not being lynched as a compromise - I don't think the arguments in favour of this stack up, in any case.

So you're leaving a wagon with 2 votes, to join a wagon with 1 vote.
Tell me how Aeronaut's wagon has momentum, when he's not even here to defend against it?

1) That's a bizarre statement. I would think you would have been aware that after you moved onto Egg, I was the only YA vote. Toss in KAAG's town read of YA, and board-wide shrug at my case, and I don't think there's much plausible room for this slot to get the D1 axe.
2) I agree that Aero's replacement needs to account for things. I'd be extremely hesitant to see L-1 or hammer before replacement gets here. But I'm not just going to keep things in limbo indefinitely. There's a case to be made here, and I'm pursuing it.

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to pressure you to see your reaction to it, so he could read you better. Unfortunately, I guess we'll never know.
A possible reason for him to do is as scum could be that you are pretty much a universal townread in this game, and by casting shade on you, others might question their read on you too.
I would be surprised if scum Aero would do this so late on day 1.

Because...?
Aero had been generally town read at the time, so he might have felt that pushing things a bit was a reasonable play. Why specifically does "late day 1" make this not consistent with scum!Aero?

I don't get why you both think that Aero's replacement will answer for any statements that Aero has made. As a replacement, you don't get to question the people you replace in for.
So whatever information you desire to get from Aero, you won't be getting it.

[Radja]

The

MAJOR

issue right now is the GreenNope slot.

The time is here where we ought to have a wagon and a counter wagon, as mhsmith0 says in 444 (I might not concur on which two but concept is right).

But we have a slot that is absolutely Null. Even though I think the UTL/Radja slot is quite possibly scum, I don't want to commit while this GreenNope slot is sitting there utterly unclear.

Of the slots we have, I could maybe live with an Egg lynch. I'm not sure he's scum, but I think a flip of either color will help to sort YA + Radja and practically confirm mhsmith if he flips town.

However, settling on a compromise lynch with this big Null sitting there is highly unsatisfying.

I think lynching a nullslot will not give us any information and if he flips town, we'll have nothing to work with on day 2. You said early in day 1 you liked using your head. If that's true, you should be able to see this.

I didn't say I wanted to lynch the null slot though, did I, I said I wanted it to not BE a null slot before compromising.

You've either misread badly or are deliberately misrepresenting my words. Hopefully it's the former.

I thought you were implying you wanted GreenNope lynched. My bad. Glad we're on the same page then.

[Radja]

I think you've shown a lot of promise, and I think you can definitely become a good player.
You do need to look at scum motivation in a post. Disagreeing with someone doesn't necessarily make someone scum.

You don't think I looked at scum motivation in my case against UTL? also your second point is pretty obvious- disagreeing doesn't mean someone is scum!
also I really will get to your questions, look at your case and your points. currently in class tho!
I promise I will get to those tonight!! also
@YA still waiting for you to answer my question

Fair enough.
I'm looking forward to hear from you.

I'd like you to think about two possibilities:
-if I flip town, who are you going to look at for scum?
-if I flip scum, who would be my scumbuddy?

[Radja]

The only thing I can think of is that he wanted to pressure you to see your reaction to it, so he could read you better. Unfortunately, I guess we'll never know.
A possible reason for him to do is as scum could be that you are pretty much a universal townread in this game, and by casting shade on you, others might question their read on you too.
I would be surprised if scum Aero would do this so late on day 1.

Because...?
Aero had been generally town read at the time, so he might have felt that pushing things a bit was a reasonable play. Why specifically does "late day 1" make this not consistent with scum!Aero?

I think casting shade late in the day doesn't work very well, as you're never going to accomplish a lynch on someone who is being townread by the majority of the players.
That's a slot you consider for the nightkill.

That's what I think, at least.