Newbie 1691 - Game Over

[YawningAngel]

Right, thanks

I'll answer Thor once I decide how much fire I want to kill him with

[shannon]

So Eggman's a goner, hey? Unless a doctor steps in to save him, or he's bulletproof, in which case, someone will know what kind of game we're playing and what the Mafia are like. [Meta: Is it pro- or anti-town to openly try to work out which type of roles are in the game we're playing? This is my first game and I don't want to do it if it's going to hurt town chances]

What can we learn from the death of Eggman? Well, I guess I'll learn that I was wrong about SiW, since I don't think the two of them are partners. Here's why.

Whether or not he's mafia, I have a feeling that Egg/Ryu's performance is a result of lack of coaching or understanding. Which means if he's scum, he's not getting good advice through daytalk. I think SiW is doing a plausible job of acting towny, as part of her scum strategy, and I don't think she'd advise Ryu/Egg to be so scummy. (Well, everyone else thinks he's super scummy, I am not sure at this point).

The only way I can see overt scumminess happening through two incarnations of the character (i.e. for Ryu and for Eggman) is if there were two different advisors on daytalk. None of the enduring players, including SiW, is both good enough to get away with being scummy by being actively towny, *and* would think it a good strategy to have Ryu act the way he did.

If Eggman flips scum, my hypothesis is that Ryu's original partner either wasn't able to get through to him with good advice, gave bad advice, or wasn't on much to offer advice. Then with Eggman subbing in, either the partner couldn't get through (again? Eggman doesn't seem socially difficult as Ryu), gave bad advice (again), or wasn't on much. This sounds unlikely if the partner is just one consistent player, so I think we're looking for Eggman's partner to be someone who has subbed.

Since I know it's not me (really!) I think that

if

Egg is scum, his partner is either

Ircher/heyboxgaming,
Radja/UTL, or
Thor665/Aeronaut

If Eggman flips scum, my first action will be to go through the logs and find out when Ryu left, when the above fill-ins happened relative to the Ryu/Egg change, and see what (if any) connections there are. Thoughts?

If Eggman flips town, I'm still watching you SiW.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

So Eggman's a goner, hey? Unless a doctor steps in to save him, or he's bulletproof,

Neither of those save you from a lynch. Only from scum night-kills.

Is it pro- or anti-town to openly try to work out which type of roles are in the game we're playing?

The 6 possible setups are listed in one of the first 2-3 posts in the thread. I wouldn't speculate on D1, for sure. On D2, usually a PR who can prove a guilty will reveal so, but if they can't prove guilty, it's

usually

D3 when it comes out. Note that this is very general guidance and situational.

[shannon]

Thank you KAAG, I completely missed the night kill/ lynch distinction with the PRs. I can't wait until we know more about who's in the game.

What do you think of the rest of the post? If Eggman is a mafioso, is it useful to go back and look at who else might be associated with him? (If he's town, what can we learn from his lynching? This is the bit I struggle with).

[YawningAngel]

If he's Mafia, expect his scumbuddy to have given up on him and jumped on the wagon (I imagine). If he's town, look for people who joined the lynch opportunistically or weren't willing to involve themselves at all.

Those are very general guidelines. Obviously skilled scum won't conform to expectations, but in general try to get into the mindset of someone who just wants a town lynch, any town lynch, but ideally one they can't be blamed for. Given that Eggman was such a weak player, if he is scum I imagine his fellow scum will likely have given up and tried to salvage some town-cred by bussing him.

[Thor665]

Hi Thor,

I didn't notice the extension until you just mentioned it. (Well, you mentioned 3 days...it was 1 day when I last saw.)

Still, that's moot as you LOL'Hammered anyway. Guess we'll see on the flip-side. (I made a funny!)

So with 2 extra days you would have made a push on Radja?
Why - what makes the case on him good when you appeared otherwise okay with just rolling over and lynching Eggman?

Are you Smurfing serious

Yes - why does my vote bother you? You are also voting Eggman, did you NOT want to lynch him?

Also, are we allowed to talk now the hammer's gone down?

We're allowed to post up until the mod locks the thread.

[Meta: Is it pro- or anti-town to openly try to work out which type of roles are in the game we're playing? This is my first game and I don't want to do it if it's going to hurt town chances]

How do you think working out what roles are in the game would help town's chances?

The only way I can see overt scumminess happening through two incarnations of the character (i.e. for Ryu and for Eggman) is if there were two different advisors on daytalk. None of the enduring players, including SiW, is both good enough to get away with being scummy by being actively towny, *and* would think it a good strategy to have Ryu act the way he did.

How much Mafia experience do you have on any forum?

Since I know it's not me (really!) I think that

if

Egg is scum, his partner is either

Ircher/heyboxgaming,
Radja/UTL, or
Thor665/Aeronaut

If Eggman flips scum, my first action will be to go through the logs and find out when Ryu left, when the above fill-ins happened relative to the Ryu/Egg change, and see what (if any) connections there are. Thoughts?

What makes you think that we look like scumbuddies to him *other* than your replace out theory?
Because if that's all this is, you might as well include a list of players who couldn't offer good advice also - which would expand the list...which makes me wonder why you ruled them out in the first place.
Also, I'd offer brilliant advice...of course I'd kill my scumpartner for laughs too, so you probably shouldn't rule me out for that, but my advice *would* be brilliant

If he's Mafia, expect his scumbuddy to have given up on him and jumped on the wagon (I imagine). If he's town, look for people who joined the lynch opportunistically or weren't willing to involve themselves at all.

Whose votes did you find opportunistic?

[Thor665]

Welcome to Newbie 1691!

The People Who Are Still Alive:

SummerInWonderland

YawningAngel*

mhsmith0

firelord111

shannon

GreenNope**

Aatami*

Eggman

Ryu Ogami*

Ircher

heyboxgaminig* (SE)

KickAssAndGiggle (SE)

Radja

UpTooLate (SE)

Thor665

Aeronaut*** (IC)

@Shannon - another question, as long as you were calling out people who had been replaced, why didn't you mention mhsmith/firelord but mentioned all the other replace outs?

[shannon]

So who joined the lynch most opportunistically? I'm going to say Thor/Aero. Thor could easily have said 'Hey, I'm new, I don't know about this, I'm keeping out', but instead went and made a big song and dance about hammering Egg for 0 justification. Maybe this is his play style, maybe it's covering for scumminess. I can't tell yet.

Then there's Ircher saying that 'no lynch is not an option' in 480, and then going to L-1 Egg on 483. He has given an explanation for his actions that is theory/rule-based rather than player-behaviour based. *And* he says that whoever hammers without 24 hours notice is next to be lynched, which like 'lynch the lurker', is supposed to appeal to our sense of how the game should be played. So now I'm a bit suss on Ircher for this reason *and* per my post 501 I'll have more reason to investigate him as well.

If Egg flips mafia, I reckon Ircher has a bit to answer for.

[SummerInWonderland]

As far as I can tell Eggman was not hammered. Shannon changed her vote to me.
@thor any way you can take a look at my UTL/Radja? I think this is our bet.
Also shannon asking someone what they think is working together with my town reads. I am not asking someone to save me. (I will continue to get into your case against me as I go)
I don't think Eggman is a good lynch- he is a lurker and I don't think there is too much content where with UTL I actually see solid stuff.

[shannon]

Welcome to Newbie 1691!

The People Who Are Still Alive:

SummerInWonderland

YawningAngel*

mhsmith0

firelord111

shannon

GreenNope**

Aatami*

Eggman

Ryu Ogami*

Ircher

heyboxgaminig* (SE)

KickAssAndGiggle (SE)

Radja

UpTooLate (SE)

Thor665

Aeronaut*** (IC)

@Shannon - another question, as long as you were calling out people who had been replaced, why didn't you mention mhsmith/firelord but mentioned all the other replace outs?

I didn't mention mhsmith because I think he's strongly town.

[Thor665]

So who joined the lynch most opportunistically? I'm going to say Thor/Aero. Thor could easily have said 'Hey, I'm new, I don't know about this, I'm keeping out', but instead went and made a big song and dance about hammering Egg for 0 justification. Maybe this is his play style, maybe it's covering for scumminess. I can't tell yet.

Maybe it's both.
But you're saying that if Egg is scum then I'm clearly not his scumbuddy?

If Egg flips mafia, I reckon Ircher has a bit to answer for.

Why? If Egg flipped scum off of Ircher calling him out just for deadline and lurk I'd tend to consider Ircher more likely to be town than scum - why are you getting the reverse of my thoughts?

Also, I asked you

three

two other

questions - just a reminder that I'd like answers (unless you're typing right now, n which case it all will work out fine - but if you're ducking, I'mma calling you out!).

[Thor665]

I didn't mention mhsmith because I think he's strongly town.

Why?

[Thor665]

As far as I can tell Eggman was not hammered. Shannon changed her vote to me.

Congratulations, for someone "playing the hapless card" you're at least able to read vote counts, good work.

Unvote: Eggman
Vote: Yawning Angel

@thor any way you can take a look at my UTL/Radja? I think this is our bet.

Can you link it for me, or do I need to go find it myself? I'll look at any case anyone wants to talk about - I'm easygoing like that.
Except when I'm hard tunneling.
Which is 99% of the time - but otherwise I'm the easiest going guy around.

I don't think Eggman is a good lynch- he is a lurker and I don't think there is too much content where with UTL I actually see solid stuff.

I actually think Egg is town - you really have no read on him at all?

[SummerInWonderland]

I had a slight town read on Ryu and nothing really changed my mind with Eggman. You can look back at my read post and i mention it there
also I will link stuff to you but you can look back too because it spans over some time

[shannon]

So who joined the lynch most opportunistically? I'm going to say Thor/Aero. Thor could easily have said 'Hey, I'm new, I don't know about this, I'm keeping out', but instead went and made a big song and dance about hammering Egg for 0 justification. Maybe this is his play style, maybe it's covering for scumminess. I can't tell yet.

Maybe it's both.
But you're saying that if Egg is scum then I'm clearly not his scumbuddy?

No, I'm saying that you're a candidate for scumbuddy. You voted for him when you knew it was already almost over, which is what you might do if you were bussing. Also maybe you can count (!) and knew that your 'hammer' wouldn't actually kill him, because I had voted SiL and the posts about vote numbers were inaccurate.

If Egg flips mafia, I reckon Ircher has a bit to answer for.

Why? If Egg flipped scum off of Ircher calling him out just for deadline and lurk I'd tend to consider Ircher more likely to be town than scum - why are you getting the reverse of my thoughts?

I think Ircher may have used the deadline and lurk as an excuse, in the absence of any substantive reason, to join the bandwagon and bus Egg. I don't see why a townie would vote for someone inoffensive but useless when they could be trying to use the last of our time to vote for someone who is actually mafia. And Ircher doesn't say that Egg is mafia, only that he's failing to participate.

Also, I asked you

three

two other

questions - just a reminder that I'd like answers (unless you're typing right now, n which case it all will work out fine - but if you're ducking, I'mma calling you out!).

[Thor665]

If it's a span of time I'd rather get links.
I'm being a terrible IC in admitting this to you all - but I pretty much loathe reading backwards through the whole slog of a game when replacing in.
Feel free not to pick up that habit from me - people can and will vote you over it and make (false) claims that you can't have reads until you're "caught up".

Absorb all of my other lessons though.

First lesson: we should have had someone at L-1 and claimed about five days ago (three with the extension).
Using "all the time" is different than "waiting till deadline to get a lynch choice" and neither are particularly pro town in reality.

I'll accept a counterwagon to Egg on either Yawning Angel or Radja (the latter being based on the presumption of a sexy case from Summer and/or KickAndGigle)
I may even hold my breath.
Just you wait.

[Thor665]

No, I'm saying that you're a candidate for scumbuddy. You voted for him when you knew it was already almost over, which is what you might do if you were bussing. Also maybe you can count (!) and knew that your 'hammer' wouldn't actually kill him, because I had voted SiL and the posts about vote numbers were inaccurate.

I absolutely knew I wasn't hammering him - but you're arguing that my vote was "opportunistic".
I can see why it would be opportunistic if I was scum and he was town (or, frankly, if I was town and he was scum)
But if we're both scum - either I thought he was at L-1 (or L-2) and I'd just shown up.
The *only* "opportunity" I see in hammering him is...well...actually I don't see one, because if it was real, it got me nothing, and if it was fake it got me no distance.
So, what is it?

I think Ircher may have used the deadline and lurk as an excuse, in the absence of any substantive reason, to join the bandwagon and bus Egg. I don't see why a townie would vote for someone inoffensive but useless when they could be trying to use the last of our time to vote for someone who is actually mafia. And Ircher doesn't say that Egg is mafia, only that he's failing to participate.

Yeah, I can see why a scum Ircher would do it to a town Eggman - but you said that if Eggman was scum you'd want to look at Ircher.
I still don't get why - you think that's what a bus should look like?

Still am asking about your overall Mafia experience - you missed that question.

[SummerInWonderland]

okay this is what I got- this was quick so if you wanna go back and look through things then go for it! She was pushing me bc someone forgot to put me on there reads list, nit picky, opportunistic. Look at all of UTLs post about me and they do not make sense.

UTL- at the start I thought you were super helpful! You helped with game play and overall super nice and you made me feel more comfortable in the game I don't think that really shows your alignment though, which is the tricky part. I really do buy into mhs' analysis of you, and in many ways its right. You seemed to be coasting by early game aha and that makes me think you were looking for ways to jump around. There is a strange connection with you and Aeronaut that seems a bit weird, as if you are trying to get on the IC's good side. People seem to be going out of their way to protect you and that makes me very sketchy about your slot, specifically Aeronaut and KAAG. Specifically 206 helped convince me to look this way.

I am not sure what UTL pinged about me (it seemed to be really fast) strategic read switch I think. she was town reading me earlier and when you start to question me she now flipped and thinks im mafia.
In post 39, UpTooLate wrote:
2. Let's see. Scum are more likely to lurk to ride out the Day as under the radar as possible. It's usually not a good thing if you're compiling your reads and you forget about someone, or have no opinion on them at all (at least later in the game). Scum also like to take things out of context and twist them around to fit their agenda, produce weak surface level reads, and push the weakest seeming players over the smallest things.
it could be this case- I am a newbie and she could easily attack that if she is mafia.

especially this one

You were praising his scumhunting in the post above, but the minute he mentions anything that could potentially link you to being scum, all of a sudden he's looking too much into things:

I was praising that he was scumhunting!

not that he was doing a great job of it

. okay so my change in thought wasn't because I was in the hot seat! like regardless I wasn't being super pressured or anything because the people only had small leans. okay so we need to look at what happened in between my reads and then now. smith was wrong about KAAG- he had a slight read against me. he owns up to his mistake about KAAG and like I explained by thought about myself. Since my first read 2 different things happened.
With that being said I stated earlier That i felt like he was town but then I just had to figure out if he was right.
he one point against me is silly I think. the one you bring up in your post (I will get into this)
then because of that I start to look at all his reads! the one of you which I was thinking "maybe there isn't really much to go on" because I know there wasn't with me. again this was my thought process. He was looking too much into things but that isn’t an alignment indicative thing, it merely is a distrust of his positions

The post of above has a few things wrong with it:
One, like stated earlier, you were just expressing how much you liked what he was doing (when it wasn't pointed at you) and in fact, you were somewhat sheeping him in your read of me.
Two, forgetting someone on a readslist is a scumtell (pretty sure mhsmith already went over it). Now, like all tells, it's not always accurate, but it is something to keep in mind. And considering you're one of the active people in the game, it does NOT make sense that he would forget you.
Three, the people you say were defending me, aren't they town reads of yours? So why would you trust mhsmith (though he is a seemingly widespread townread, he's not conftown) and not your other townreads? How does it make sense that because your town reads are defending me, I'm scum?

yes I like that he is scumhunting. Not that he is doing a particularly job. You accused me of a misrep, but

this right here is you misrepping me, not the contrary

Okay so a significant part of scum reading me is because someone forgot about me. its not even something I did. its someone else forgot about me and they said they were in class/skimming so if you do that, youre probably going to miss stuff. He admitted it was a goofy mistake. Usually that scumtell is forgetting a buddy? I don’t understand how he is using this to signify me as scum at all
You never said I was scum but you said I was “pinging your gut pretty hard”. I have no idea what that could mean other than you thinking I was a bad guy. This isn’t a misrep, this is you being vague and me calling you on it aha. I highly doubt I was “pinging your gut pretty hard” as a null/town read, you wouldn’t use that language. You were very obviously preparing to scumread me. You notice you’re in a bit of pressure and are trying to send it to me haha.
I really do think you are scum here UTL. Your pushes don't make sense to me at all if you are town. You are misrepping me I think and taking advantage of my poor-standing in the town right now.
@Yawning, you showed support for a UTL wagon and I'm more sure of this than your eggman case. Go there instead?

KAAG does a good job of summing some stuff up too, here. Worded a bit better than I tend to.

On UpTooLate

I'm struggling now UTL, for a number of reasons:
1) I read the game with Karnage/RC etc and found little real difference in your tone (to the point the issue was raised in this thread). As far as I was concerned, the matter was closed. But then you contradict this and say:

It is different this game from my last. My last game, day 1, I decided to try a more aggressive approach, picked a stupid fight with a newbie trying to push him a little since he said he had nothing to contribute, and I think I may have discouraged him a bit. I don't feel great about how I handled that, and I'm using a new approach this time around. So, yes, there is a difference in tone, you can take it for what you'd like.

Followed by a "clarification":

Ok, I'm here. Also, I didn't see which posts you linked earlier, I should probably do that, but that's not the tone I was talking about? I thought you were meaning my overall approach to the game. I'm going to be different in different games based on playerlists, gamestate, etc. Think of me as a mirror. I tend to reflect the personalities I'm dealing with. This game has had more of a "serious" vibe than my last newbie, so my posting has reflected that

Why are you defending a case like that? Are you worried that you sound different? It was marginal if anything as far as I can tell. And one could say that you ARE now having a little bit of a fight with YA and SIW too. So I'm not sure it's even true.
The defence is FAR more suspicious than the original case.
2) Hmmmm... (you can imagine my eyebrow at half mast when I say that):

There's a wagon on Aero? And no, my vote is not leaving you, in fact I'd like you to be lynched with fire by the end of the day.

Post 284:

lynch YA with fire.

wut. How do you "know" anything?
VOTE: SummerInWonderland
(P.s. he wasn't on the right track)

Post 287:

Votes SIW.

Are you really scum-reading SIW? This is how I read what she posted (post 286):
"I was town reading mhsmith and KAAG. mhsmith made a case on KAAG. I didn't like how KAAG defended it at first. Then we realise mhsmith misread 'least town' as 'AT LEAST town'. I now read them both as town but am not sure about mhsmith's reads"
And you misread that so badly you vote her?

After wanting to lynch YA with fire?

Are you postulating a YA/SIW scum team? Or are you just all over the place?
UNVOTE: Ircher
VOTE: UpTooLate

UTL are you looking at everything I am saying ? You aren't commenting on a lot of what I am saying to you. You said nothing to me about me explaining my thought process to you. This isn't backpedaling.

She went from having a huge townread on me to pushing me for voting her. Then when put under too much pressure she said we should just drop it.Her pushes just don't make any sense and she went after two people for convenience rather than confidence. Radja has been a bit better but not nearly enough to do anything to change my mind

I also don't understand why she would "stubbornly stick to that perspective."
she doesn't strike me as an emotional player- idk...
if she had such strong feelings about YA why would she switch to me over a few words? like I didn't know saying the word "know" would make her competently go against me. Her points before that were weak I think too. she misrepresented me too and I just saw a lot I didn't see as a town motive.

[shannon]

More replies for Thor -

(How much Mafia experience do you have on any forum?)

None on any forum. It just seems most likely to me that *if* Ryu/Egg is mafia, his partner is a switcher too.

This is why. *Iff Ryu/Egg is mafia*, the options as I see them are:

1) Team mate has been one person the whole time and constantly telling Ryu/Egg to play really badly, maybe as part of a long-term bus strategy
2) Team mate has been one person, trying to get both Ryu and Egg to play better, but neither of them have been willing to follow the instructions
3) Ryu/Egg, despite being different people, have both played poorly, and the team mate is unable to influence this. Team mate buses them/takes advantage of bandwagon
4) There is a communication breakdown caused by noob players, repeated replacements, and general offlineyness of players, so the team mate has not had the chance to help Ryu/Egg do better

I think it's option 4, and *iff Egg is a mafioso* we are looking for a team mate who has also replaced.


How do you think working out what roles are in the game would help town's chances?

I actually don't know whether it does, which is why I asked - I just like working things out in general. I don't want to do it in the game if it doesn't help the town, though. (I'll still try to put it together in my head but I won't post it here).

[YawningAngel]

Yes - why does my vote bother you? You are also voting Eggman, did you NOT want to lynch him?

Because quickhammering without even reading the arguments is deeply suspicious and tactically questionable. Eggman was a weak lynch, and using the rest of our time to try and come up with a stronger alternative was (and I suppose still is) a fair idea. Investigating myself or Radja, as well as fielding questions yourself, would all have been more productive for the town than hammering some poor dupe. Furthermore, I'm bothered by people voting without sound reasons - I believe there is a well-reasoned case for voting Eggman, but if you aren't aware of it, then that's by-the-by. I am left instead with your (apparent) willingness to hammer someone for no known reason.

I would also very much like an explanation for why you pretended to quickhammer. A quick scan of your wiki has you down as a strong advocate for putting people at L-1 and questioning them - why wasn't 'fessing up to that philosophy and the fact that that was (presumably) what you wanted to do sufficient?

Mod edit: fixed quote tag

[Thor665]

I actually don't know whether it does, which is why I asked - I just like working things out in general. I don't want to do it in the game if it doesn't help the town, though. (I'll still try to put it together in my head but I won't post it here).

It's a serious question to you - why do you think knowing this would help town scumhunt?
If you have an answer, then wouldn't that be the reason to do it?
If you have no answer to that question, then, functionally, haven't you answered your own question?
I don't understand the question, really.

Eggman was a weak lynch, and using the rest of our time to try and come up with a stronger alternative was (and I suppose still is) a fair idea.

Then why are you voting him?

I would also very much like an explanation for why you pretended to quickhammer.

For reactions.

A quick scan of your wiki has you down as a strong advocate for putting people at L-1 and questioning them - why wasn't 'fessing up to that philosophy and the fact that that was (presumably) what you wanted to do sufficient?

For reactions.

[shannon]

No, I'm saying that you're a candidate for scumbuddy. You voted for him when you knew it was already almost over, which is what you might do if you were bussing. Also maybe you can count (!) and knew that your 'hammer' wouldn't actually kill him, because I had voted SiL and the posts about vote numbers were inaccurate.

I absolutely knew I wasn't hammering him - but you're arguing that my vote was "opportunistic".
I can see why it would be opportunistic if I was scum and he was town (or, frankly, if I was town and he was scum)
But if we're both scum - either I thought he was at L-1 (or L-2) and I'd just shown up.
The *only* "opportunity" I see in hammering him is...well...actually I don't see one, because if it was real, it got me nothing, and if it was fake it got me no distance.
So, what is it?

I think Ircher may have used the deadline and lurk as an excuse, in the absence of any substantive reason, to join the bandwagon and bus Egg. I don't see why a townie would vote for someone inoffensive but useless when they could be trying to use the last of our time to vote for someone who is actually mafia. And Ircher doesn't say that Egg is mafia, only that he's failing to participate.

Yeah, I can see why a scum Ircher would do it to a town Eggman - but you said that if Eggman was scum you'd want to look at Ircher.
I still don't get why - you think that's what a bus should look like?

Still am asking about your overall Mafia experience - you missed that question.

1) If you are both scum, the opportunity is for you to look not-scum by hammering someone that was already being voted down. And, you knew (and a lot of us didn't seem to realise) he wouldn't actually be lynched from it. The method of doing it (I don't care, I'm hammering now!) also made people second-guess their Egg votes. So when SiW reminded us that the wagon was one vote short, instead of someone adding to it (as they otherwise might have), people changed their minds because you had made the Egg vote look reckless. (Note: I think the Egg vote *was* reckless, but that's beside the point). I can't clearly tell whether you did this from a pro-town angle (Save Egg! Find the real killers!) or whether you did it from a pro-Mafia point. (Save Egg! Find a real townie! Or at least, make myself look Townie if this wagon keeps on rolling).


2) Yes, I'd still look at Ircher for scum if Eggman is scum. Ircher may have known, as you did, that his vote was actually L-2 not L-1, aka not dangerous. It also gave him a way to stay with the town (vote Egg), while not having to say anything that would make people look too closely at him. If you don't offer a substantive opinion, no one can offer substantive criticism.

3) I answered last post, but I've not played forum mafia before.

I'm not avoiding any questions I'm just struggling to keep up! If I miss something you think is key, please link me back to it. (While you're at it, how do you link to posts? I know how to quote but not how to do the thing where the post number shows up as a link).

[shannon]

[quote="Thor665]
Yes - why does my vote bother you? You are also voting Eggman, did you NOT want to lynch him?

Because quickhammering without even reading the arguments is deeply suspicious and tactically questionable. Eggman was a weak lynch, and using the rest of our time to try and come up with a stronger alternative was (and I suppose still is) a fair idea. Investigating myself or Radja, as well as fielding questions yourself, would all have been more productive for the town than hammering some poor dupe. Furthermore, I'm bothered by people voting without sound reasons - I believe there is a well-reasoned case for voting Eggman, but if you aren't aware of it, then that's by-the-by. I am left instead with your (apparent) willingness to hammer someone for no known reason.

I would also very much like an explanation for why you pretended to quickhammer. A quick scan of your wiki has you down as a strong advocate for putting people at L-1 and questioning them - why wasn't 'fessing up to that philosophy and the fact that that was (presumably) what you wanted to do sufficient?[/quote][/quote]

+1 to this.

[shannon]

I actually don't know whether it does, which is why I asked - I just like working things out in general. I don't want to do it in the game if it doesn't help the town, though. (I'll still try to put it together in my head but I won't post it here).

It's a serious question to you - why do you think knowing this would help town scumhunt?
If you have an answer, then wouldn't that be the reason to do it?
If you have no answer to that question, then, functionally, haven't you answered your own question?
I don't understand the question, really.

I want to know the roles for my own curiosity. I wonder whether or not it helps the Town to have this information available?

If we know we have a doctor would we do things differently than if we know we're all vanilla townies? Are we doing a service to the mafia by telling them the roles? Should we be

pretending

to have certain roles?

You know what, don't worry about it, I'll go to the wiki and read more. Forget I asked!

[YawningAngel]

Because the plausible lynches for today appear to be myself, Radja, Eggman, and you. Let's go through that list.

I obviously have no interest in being lynched myself.

You aren't willing to speculate about what Aeronaut was doing. I was confused by Aeronaut's actions before he was replaced, and you're posting a lot of stuff. If you're bullshitting, I've got plenty of rope to hang you with starting Day 2. If you're not bullshitting, then Aeronaut's questionable play is something I'm willing to overlook for now.

That leaves me with either Eggman or Radja. We pretty much settled on them because the original players in those slots contributed very little and lurking is anti-town poison. When Radja replaced in, he contributed a large post with his impressions so far and a set of reads. I'm still a little suspicious because the previous occupant of the slot was a lurker, but what we now have is a player who seems to be willing to at least put himself out there. If I were lynched today, I'd expect to see him asked some pointed questions tomorrow, but for now at least he's not the prime suspect.

And thus we get to Eggman. The person he replaced was lurking, he's lurking, and his entire contribution has been 1) to vote me with no justification and 2) to implode and claim VT under pressure. He clearly doesn't know what he's doing, but I find it more plausible that a bad scum player would try to fly under the radar by claiming to be clueless than that a VT wouldn't be willing to at least try and say things.

Do I think this is a great case for a lynch? Nope. Would I like to try and find a better one before deadline? Yup. Eggman remains the best lynch so far as I'm concerned, but that doesn't mean people should vote for him and especially hammer him without good reason, thus denying us the rest of the day to try and do better.