Mini 1770: College Mafia! (Game Ovah)

[Aeronaut]

VC 3.11

VC 3.11

(With 8 students still enrolled, it's 5 to Lynch!)

- Umass Dartmouth (Dartmouth, MA) -

[L-1] Aristophanes -

GuiltyLion, massive, Firebringer, Night Hunters
[L-5] Firebringer -

[L-4] GuiltyLion -

SirCakez
[L-5] Nahdia -
[L-5] massive -

[L-4] Night Hunters -

Aristophanes
[L-5] SirCakez -
[L-5] ɀefiend -

Not Voting

- ɀefiend, Nahdia

Mod Notes:

Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me, to me

[Titus Head is V/LA until Thursday]

Final Exams begin

(expired on 2016-04-02 20:20:32)

[Night Hunters]

LOL

VOTE: Ari

You went from town reading us to leading a wagon on us just to save your own skin. lol nope. You know we're flipping town and are going to use it for town cred. lol nope

L-1

And you did the same thing as soon as there was any argument to be made against me, knowing I'm easy as hell to lynch. As I say, those pushing the double neighbor rhetoric are likely scum.
I am not scum.

Nobody hammer without intent please. I have more words to say.

uhm no? I am saying you are scum, you are saying that we should lynch titus' and I's slot to confirm one of fb / gl as scum and to give you town cred.

[Aristophanes]

LOL

VOTE: Ari

You went from town reading us to leading a wagon on us just to save your own skin. lol nope. You know we're flipping town and are going to use it for town cred. lol nope

L-1

And you did the same thing as soon as there was any argument to be made against me, knowing I'm easy as hell to lynch. As I say, those pushing the double neighbor rhetoric are likely scum.
I am not scum.

Nobody hammer without intent please. I have more words to say.

uhm no? I am saying you are scum, you are saying that we should lynch titus' and I's slot to confirm one of fb / gl as scum and to give you town cred.

No, I am saying that despite my townread on you, I can see your flavour being Scum aligned. I am willing to take a chance and am putting my neck on the line by suggesting this course of action.
I would much rather a GL lynch today, but will settle for one tomorrow. If he is right and you're scum, I'll eat me words. It is possible and thus a chance I am willing to take.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: night Hunters
This will do a ton for the game state for me.

[ɀefiend]

I don't like Aristo's "let's make a deal" approach. That's not how town aims for self-preservation, IMO. For instance, why can't Aristo's flip prove something just as meaningful.

Also, something I've been meaning to ask NH: You said you know by mod error that Shadowez visited no one on the night he attempted to neighborize GL. If he was roleblocked, which seems to be the prevailing story at the moment, then this makes sense. But if GL is ascetic, wouldn't you have seen Shadowez visit GL anyway, but his action have "no result." Or is that not how Tracker/ascetic mechanics work? This is hypothetical since your actual claimed action is being blocked and getting no result, but it still has applications to the "3 blocked people in one night" scenario.

The application being that shadowez being confirmed blocked would make one of you/Firebringer almost guaranteed scum... hmm... Now I'm starting to talk myself into circles.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: night Hunters
This will do a ton for the game state for me.

Nobody is even voting there *facepalm*

[Aristophanes]

I mean, my flip wouldn't confirm anyone, so it isn't as meaningful.

You do raise a decent point at the end there though!

[ɀefiend]

2. Why not Firebringer? (and, as an addendum to this question - what are your thoughts about his nervously self-noted OMGUS on me after I claimed I caught him as scum, like, you find that the townie reaction? Y'know,

when you play as scum

and someone is like "I *know* you are scum" your immediate reaction is to vote them, laugh it off as OMGUS, and not start demanding to, y'know, ask 'why' they claim to know you're scum, since clearly they have to be wrong, and also it would be slightly psychotic for scum to try a 1 v 1 on Day 1, so...y'know, they're either incredibly bad scum you ought to be able to own, or really mistaking town you should try to sort...that's how you'd play it, right, with an OMGUS?

WTF.... Why did nobody catch this at the time?? Jesus Christ I need to reread this entire game at least twice more now...

On my current reread I am developing a hypothesis that Thor actually bussed Firebringer. Why? He brushed away Fire's claim willy nilly. He was so sure Fire was scum for no solid reasons. He made promises, repeatedly, that good things would come from a Fire lynch. He was building towncred into his posts as setup in case the Fire lynch went through.

And let's look at it from the Fire perspective. He didn't fight back Thor much at all. He claimed to JK Jeanne, but as I have always understood the Jailkeeper role, even VTs are informed when they're dragged to jail, and Jeanne herself had doubts about this action too. Then there's the reckless claim of Fire to begin with (echoing NH). And of course, the WIFOM comment about never being NK'd.

I have too many thoughts and theories running through my head right now. Someone talk to me, please.

[ɀefiend]

Even on the theory he has a PR and it is provable (neither of which I believe)
He could still be a scum PR with a provable claim - so tomorrow we still wouldn't know anything.

Maybe he'd be a scum neighborizer or something, big whoop.

Also, maybe, even if he is town,

scum have a roleblocker

, and again nothing would be proven.

The wait for proof is meaningless - the question is whether he is scummy or not.
And he is.
Did you read his reactions to my push on him? That is blatant scum reaction.

This post.
This post was made Day 1. The first bolded statement: is this a scum-crumb? Thor being flipped scum knew the fellow scum PR(s), and nobody had claimed neighborizer of any type yet. Since Shadowez is flipped town neighborizer, this makes me strongly believe Aristo is scum neighborizer.

The second bolded statement: (also WTF, how did nobody catch this?) fits perfectly with the theory that Fire is scum roleblocker claiming the perfect cover, Jailkeeper.

[SirCakez]

Thor's Fire push didn't look liie a bus to me.

[massive]

If Thor's Fire push was a bus, it was one of those metal-spike-loaded ones with a guitar player on top shooting fire out of his guitar.

[Night Hunters]

I don't like Aristo's "let's make a deal" approach. That's not how town aims for self-preservation, IMO. For instance, why can't Aristo's flip prove something just as meaningful.

Also, something I've been meaning to ask NH: You said you know by mod error that Shadowez visited no one on the night he attempted to neighborize GL. If he was roleblocked, which seems to be the prevailing story at the moment, then this makes sense. But if GL is ascetic, wouldn't you have seen Shadowez visit GL anyway, but his action have "no result." Or is that not how Tracker/ascetic mechanics work? This is hypothetical since your actual claimed action is being blocked and getting no result, but it still has applications to the "3 blocked people in one night" scenario.

The application being that shadowez being confirmed blocked would make one of you/Firebringer almost guaranteed scum... hmm... Now I'm starting to talk myself into circles.

We were told to ignore the mod error, but that is a really good point. I want ari's head today.

[Night Hunters]

^ ari's head today, though*

[Night Hunters]

^ ari's head today, though*

[Night Hunters]

#1257, VTs are not informed when jailed on this site, which is why I felt the fire/Jeanne scene was really off and melodramatic.

Also, your understanding of ascetic is incorrect. Ascetic means untargetable by non killing actions. So if GL is Ascetic, Shadow visits no one.

I am thinking GL is ascetic SK (and was the failed cw to Ari), Ari is a scum neighborizer (and now that Zelda mafia is over , we can say why Ari isn't 100% scum but only probably).

Fire being scum is possible but ehhh his flail reminds me of Painbringer.

[Night Hunters]

Even on the theory he has a PR and it is provable (neither of which I believe)
He could still be a scum PR with a provable claim - so tomorrow we still wouldn't know anything.

Maybe he'd be a scum neighborizer or something, big whoop.

Also, maybe, even if he is town,

scum have a roleblocker

, and again nothing would be proven.

The wait for proof is meaningless - the question is whether he is scummy or not.
And he is.
Did you read his reactions to my push on him? That is blatant scum reaction.

This post.
This post was made Day 1. The first bolded statement: is this a scum-crumb? Thor being flipped scum knew the fellow scum PR(s), and nobody had claimed neighborizer of any type yet. Since Shadowez is flipped town neighborizer, this makes me strongly believe Aristo is scum neighborizer.

The second bolded statement: (also WTF, how did nobody catch this?) fits perfectly with the theory that Fire is scum roleblocker claiming the perfect cover, Jailkeeper.

Splitting the difference, Thor is throwing shade at all town, with the knowledge of a scum neighborizer. Expert scum don't want things to be proven, so they doubtcast and throw shade.

[ɀefiend]

NH: I need you to re-explain your 807. I don't understand, "Shadowez was supposed to be the original target" nor "fire and us were swapped..."

Sorry I can't quote things well, I'm on phone atm.

[ɀefiend]

Yeah I know what ascetic means, it's just that on other sites I used to play at, there is an important subtlety when it comes to targeting and visiting. That being, someone targeting an ascetic is still seen as visiting them (by a tracker or watcher for example) but the action garners no result. Compared with being blocked, where the person is not seen as visiting and still gets a no result. Maybe I should pm mod about this because obviously you have motivation to twist how the mechanics work if you're scum (not my prevailing thought at the moment, but I'm being careful).

[Night Hunters]

@Zefiend, and other sites are different. Go ahead and clear with the mod. I made a mistake in my first scumgame here thinking all targets got notified if jailed.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ascetic

There's the wiki. An ascetic role "cannot be targeted". Any attempt to target the role fails. Thus, Shaddow goes nowhere.



Ok, looking back at 807.

I wanted to track Jeanne. Fire wanted to jail Shaddowez. We agreed to reverse our actions in the hood.

[ɀefiend]

From your link:

A role attempting to visit an ascetic should be seen doing so by a tracker or motion detector.

Wow, I should have just read the wiki. So you

are

twisting things, or are confused. Because now, fypov, the mod's error confirms that Shadowez was actually blocked. Because it is more likely that the mod messed up on you being blocked, then messing up the result had you not been blocked. So fypov, Firebringer is confirmed scum and GL is not confirmed ascetic.

BAM.

[Night Hunters]

@Zefiend, and other sites are different. Go ahead and clear with the mod. I made a mistake in my first scumgame here thinking all targets got notified if jailed.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ascetic

There's the wiki. An ascetic role "cannot be targeted". Any attempt to target the role fails. Thus, Shaddow goes nowhere.



Ok, looking back at 807.

I wanted to track Jeanne. Fire wanted to jail Shaddowez. We agreed to reverse our actions in the hood.

lol titus

[Night Hunters]

From your link:

A role attempting to visit an ascetic should be seen doing so by a tracker or motion detector.

Wow, I should have just read the wiki. So you

are

twisting things, or are confused. Because now, fypov, the mod's error confirms that Shadowez was actually blocked. Because it is more likely that the mod messed up on you being blocked, then messing up the result had you not been blocked. So fypov, Firebringer is confirmed scum and GL is not confirmed ascetic.

BAM.

okay so we're not supposed to use the mod error's stuff. Like I'm kind of paranoid that the stuff we got from the mod error could have been wrong as well which could be really bad for us. We have been told to take no result as the result we received. I'll talk with titus about what we should do.

[Night Hunters]

Right, tracking an ascetic means that you should track the person visiting no one. If that premise is flawed, then so is the argument for thinking GL is an ascetic. I don't think it is.

If Shaddowez was blocked rather than asceticed then, we got two blockers. Which means Fire is scum.

Ding dong.

[massive]

This game is kinda like me in maths class. Like, I understand all the words, and you guys look really confident up at the chalkboard, but man this is getting convoluted.

[Night Hunters]

This game is kinda like me in maths class. Like, I understand all the words, and you guys look really confident up at the chalkboard, but man this is getting convoluted.

Ok, we'll go line by line and break it down.

Premise:

Shaddowez claimed neighborizer who attempted to neighborize GL.
This failed.
The only possibility there is either a) Shaddowez was blocked or b) GL is ascetic


Premise 2:

Assuming Shaddow is blocked, then there are two blocked claims.
Those claims would be myself and Shaddowez. (We know, because we lynched Shaddowez) that he's not ascetic.
For both Fire and myself to be town, there would have to be two hidden scum roleblockers. That we do not buy.
Thus, one of Fire or ourselves is scum.

Premise 3:

Assuming GL is ascetic, GL is scum.


Whether or not we are in Premise 2 or Premise 3 depends on what result a tracker would get when they follow an ascetic.

Tell me where you're lost.