In post 657, OceanWind wrote:We had no trouble getting ChurchOfMercy up to L-1. People kept unvoting because they didn't want them in hammer range but for the vast majority of the day, ChurchOfMercy was the default lynch option. It's only now that another option emerged. What trouble are you talking about?
See this is the kind of response that drive me nuts. Why would you not want someone you read as scum not within hammering range? Especially when the game Day is well past 3/4ths done. I’m sorry but that sort of ‘caution’ is just an exercise in thread inflation. The thread has blossomed from 27 pages when I went V/LA to 40 now. And I will argue with you as much as you want that this hardly constitutes a benefit to Town – a good portion of the thread in that page range is more or less noise IMO.
So another lynch option has emerged? So what. Are you saying it is a better lynch option than CoM. I disagree completely. CoM has been scummy this entire day. But let me address the “lack of depth” accusation you’ve been throwing my way multiple times since I went V/LA. How is my CoM read lacking in depth?
There is nothing in CoM’s ISO that indicates they are actually interested in finding scum. Let’s talk about the many ways this is evident.
1. The contradiction of jumping on Creeper’s wagon but later in the day Town reading the slot as “low hanging fruit”.
2. The insistence in voting the Kain slot (who had not posted in thread) over the claimed scum Bella slot (who actually had posted in thread) with the justification that Kain was obviously more scummy for having flaked yet not being able to support that position with anything other than “you don’t know site meta”.
3. Alternating waves of pointless sarcasm, claiming scum and Appeals to Emotion and Fear.
4. Hopping on every wagon that looks to save their own necks with that being the sole justification.
5. Complete void of scum-hunting from the slot.
Again – this is a summary. Do you disagree with my statements here?
I’ll continue with my discussion of your “lack of depth when we discuss my Severa read.
In post 657, OceanWind wrote:Are you saying Severa is mafia with ChurchOfMercy or that he's mafia in the event ChurchOfMercy flips town? If the former, do you think he was bussing?
My townread on him comes from how he reacted to the case on him. The sudden aggression looked like town that thought they finally found something strong to push on. Severa wasn't in any real danger of being lynched so I don't know why he as mafia would panic at SnarkySnowman catching him and push back hard rather than stay on the bus/mislynch of ChurchOfMercy and put off Snarky for the following day.
Yes I’m saying I think Severa makes a reasonable candidate for scum with CoM. But let’s get back to my “lack of depth” of read. Bring up Severa’s ISO and read along.
Severa replaces in and her first posts
296,
302and
302 are all more or less fluff. In 302 she suggests she’s OK with the CoM wagon. More short, contently posts follow without a vote until finally we get a vote at
337. Here next handful of posts are more fluff basically re-iterating her vote on CoM. In fact her first alignment indicative post about anyone other than CoM is
576 where she makes suggests Snarky is scum with CoM and is trying to generate a counter-wagon on her.
To this point I see a player who has hopped on the dominant wagon with little reasoning and isn’t looking at anyone from a scum hunting perspective how doesn’t address her. In fact during this period I asked her for reads (see
445 as example) which she dutifully ignored. This ISO doesn’t read as Town looking to find scum. It reads very much to me as possible bussing partner.
612 is her first vote-switch to Snarky. Her reasoning is basically superficial – he doesn’t have reason for thinking Severa is scum. CoM is still scum “on principal” at this point but now Snarky could be scum with them or scum wanting to line up a mislynch on Severa. Her next post is a vote back to CoM and claiming Snarky and CoM are buddies.
Again through here we see no interest in looking at anyone other than the one player calling her scum. She still fails to interact with CoM in any meaningful fashion.
618 is her post where she justifies her vote move back Snarkly because “the wagon is more interesting”. This is where my scumdar really started triggering on her. The justification of moving from a solid wagon to start a new one on a supposed CoM because it “is more interesting” is very scummy. Note this is before Snarky’s actual case was made.
Snarky makes his case at
613. Is it great? Nope. But it does absolutely valid points. His point about post 312 I agree with as evidenced above. His point that Severa was “de-railing” the case made by Kill on Bella was pretty nonsensical. But that doesn’t make it scummy. And the thrust of his Bella / Severa discussion is revolves around the fact that Severa isn’t willing to look at Bella at all through the prism of someone looking for other scum. And he was absolutely right on that issue – as I noted above Severa had gone out of her way to refuse to look at anyone besides CoM and Snarky. Generally a ham-handed presentation but with valid points.
From this point Severa latches onto Snarky and begins the attempt to move the wagon from CoM to Snarky.
620 is a direct request to stop lynching CoM simply because Snarky is scum. She further now starts to inject doubt about CoM as scum at
621 by suggesting that Snarky is scum regardless of CoM’s alignment. She continues to straddle the fence on CoM at
631
This is where I began to seriously consider Severa as a possible partner for CoM. Because many of the accusations she throws at JMO I’ve highlighted above as exactly what she was doing – no scum-hunting or any desire to actually discern alignments. But now thanks to Snarky’s case there is something for her to try and exploit as scum behavior aside from CoM’s scum play. And when I question her about trying to derail the CoM wagon she either tries to shrug it off “I would have done it much earlier” or calls me scum chainsawing for Snarky.
This is more or less exactly where I went V/LA.
I see an experienced partner hiding behind an alt (which was clear from her comments and she does not deny) who saw an opening to push a counterwagon to a partner and took it. Of course if CoM is by some reason not scum that associative tell goes out the window.
But again to address my point – how exactly does my read “lack depth”. Just because I lack time on the weekends to generate a large post like this doesn’t mean I’m not thinking about my stances.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.