Mini 1782 Game Over

[JohnnyFarrar]

But what did you think about the other posts? It just seems strange - my initial post annoyed you for lack of content, then I posted more content so I would guess that you would be a bit appeased, therefore there'd be no need to say anything at all.

I don't remember them so they were probably fine. You're assuming I've put more thought into my posts than I have. Trust Me, if I found more shit to say about your posts I would have spoke up.

and omg, not buddying &63&*@Q#^( before lowell jumps on that

Annoying.

Sorry for double posting.

If double posting were a crime I'd be banned.

Also basically everything fack said on this page I agree with.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Or last page

Spoiler: Animated GIF

Added spoiler.
~Ircher

[JohnnyFarrar]

Fuck forgot to spoiler. Sorry rich -_-

[a plain farmer]

I'm not comfortable with the Lowell vote anymore. Faq's climb on it strikes me as suspicious in an opportunistic way.

VOTE: FA_Q2

I'm still interested in the answer to this question, btw, even though he seems to have moved on:

@Fack: Is the Johnny vote because of the "threatening"? And is it really worse in your eyes than what you saw Titus doing?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Why aren't you comfy with Lowell getting voted?

[a plain farmer]

Faq's 1395 seems rather fabricated to me, and trying to snowball a wagon would be a something I'd expect from scum at this time of day. Lowell was right when he suggested his general unhelpfulness up to this point makes him the easy wagon to jump on, so his would be a good choice for scum looking to make one of the wagons the frontrunner.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I don't disagree that Lowell is an easy vote (i've said as much in past games, Lowell can attest) but just because hes easy to vote doesn't mean the complaints against him are particularly scummy

[Maxous]

As for your explanation I just can't bring myself to assume scum is lost, well, ever, really.

what? this point?

Well I don't agree. Faking reads is a lot harder than getting reads.

Advocating Max's NKA. "There was no reason for Nos to be NK'd tbh " is just wrong. Maybe Nod crumbed or slipped.

(1)

Maybe they had some power that revealed Nos's role.

(2)

Maybe Nos seemed just a little too smart to let live (Nos has beat me before, I can attest)

(3)

. Maybe scum was comfortable so they just rolled some dice. You don't

know

(unless you're scum) so trying to make it seem like that kill tells you anything and then trying to push a lynch because of it is just stupid.

(4)

1) then where is it.
2) not for a night 1 kill
3) If his reads were accurate yes. If I have considered this and the reason I looked into it is exactly because he wasn't a target I would of expected.
4) I get this practically every time I do Night-kill Analysis. Anyway, it wasn't as if it was the sole reason i'm looking at lowell. If his play was particularly town I would more inclined to ignore it. but it isn't.

edit: the neighbour thing is talked about later. yeah, it's possible scum didn't want to be stuck with a town-neighbour throughout the night. More chances to slip up.

[Maxous]

you have literally only elaborated on one read.

I'm only pushing one read at the moment. The others are sitting on the back burner because I want to reread some stuff in context first and then update my reads. I should be able to do some of that tomorrow.

Your vote preceded the back and fourth between lowell and rosh. What are your thoughts on lowell's charge?

huh.

so I read this, looked back and you're right.

Huntress votes Roshar for a quite a while.
Lowell and Roshar have a big back and forth and then Huntress...writes #1371 and pops out again.
like, didn't even address or comment on it at all.

yeah..yeah.
she likely is scum afterall

unvote, vote: Huntress

additional point: I thought jeanne was scummy and I think Huntress is. 2 people independently scummy in the same slot? (not to mention how KT was a pile of null)
This is prolly where I want to go.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Oh so you're just boring. I see.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Lying is super easy though, here let me make some shit up.

So it's me and another person as scum: here are my lie scumreads:

Geez Lowell is so scummy. He just drops in whenever people are bad at mafia and calls them scummy. Also his partner could be smith because he either ignores Lowell or agrees with him. Lol scumteam found gg

[Titus]

I think Maxous is flailing scum here, looking for things to attack. He sees that his initial offer on Lowell is gaining little traction, so he sheep's the first case stated by someone else on Huntress. His big deal is Huntress didn't comment. Yet, Maxous completely ignored the allegation by Lowell that Roshar was fishing for votes on him.

[Lowell]

Not very keen on Lowells push on Rosh for asking him about his stance on clumsy. It feels like he is misrepresenting rosh and it is a rather weak reason. It does not help that he makes the proclamation rosh is scum and then does not continue to engage with rosh after he responds. Rather, he posts that he would have killed Nos if he were scum. Why go there and ignore Rosh's push back?

No but seriously if I were scum I definitely would have killed Nos. So yeah she's right about that.

But anyway, I'm not, and didn't, and actually the fact that she thought about this in this way says more about her scumminess than mine.

Why?

Why you 'definitely would have killed Nos?' This statement really does not make sense.

VOTE: lowell

Eh, what can I say. I was feeling truthful at the moment.

Still, try to see through the awkwardness of it and to my obvtowniness. I know this is asking a lot. Be strong here.

[Froot Loop]

But what did you think about the other posts? It just seems strange - my initial post annoyed you for lack of content, then I posted more content so I would guess that you would be a bit appeased, therefore there'd be no need to say anything at all.

I don't remember them so they were probably fine. You're assuming I've put more thought into my posts than I have. Trust Me, if I found more shit to say about your posts I would have spoke up.

Yeah, it's just that the only thing you did speak up about was something negative which was corrected by subsequent posts. It wasn't a huge comment or anything but that's what I'm trying to get at.

Faq's 1395 seems rather fabricated to me, and trying to snowball a wagon would be a something I'd expect from scum at this time of day. Lowell was right when he suggested his general unhelpfulness up to this point makes him the easy wagon to jump on, so his would be a good choice for scum looking to make one of the wagons the frontrunner.

What is about FAQ's post which makes you think it was fabricated?

+1. "Wolf neighbor" is actually a plausible reason to NK Nos. Especially if the wolf slipped in neighbor chat post hammer somehow.

The possibility that her neighbour being scum is pretty high after her NK, imo. I doubt the neighbour would come out, as either alignment.

edit: the neighbour thing is talked about later. yeah, it's possible scum didn't want to be stuck with a town-neighbour throughout the night. More chances to slip up.

@smith, Roshar and Max:

All of these posts are completely empty speculation but suggesting scum scenarios for the neighbour. Why?

[Maxous]

why not.
We're speculating why the scum-team decided to kill nos.
dunno why so many people are having a fit over it.

-

His big deal is Huntress didn't comment

my big deal is read her ISO Titus.
what do you see?

[Roshar]

@Froot, here's my thought process on why the neighbor slot has a big possibility of being scum. Correct me if I'm wrong in my following assumptions.

So, Day 1 a town neighbor was NK'd. One who had multiple scum reads enough to make you wonder why they would have been NK'd.
If scum were their neighbor I can imagine Nos being a pretty good candidate for their NK because 1) The fact that neighbors sometimes have PR 2)The scum neighbor would be under more pressure talking to town one on one.

Either way, if Nos' neighbor is town, they shouldn't come out. They'll be getting suspicion from town and possible NK from scum.

[Froot Loop]

why not.
We're speculating why the scum-team decided to kill nos.
dunno why so many people are having a fit over it.

Is there any basis for this speculation? Is it helping you figure out why Nos was NK'd? I don't think it's a good idea to post baseless conjecture in the thread, especially conjecture which scum-reads a player.

@Froot, here's my thought process on why the neighbor slot has a big possibility of being scum. Correct me if I'm wrong in my following assumptions.

So, Day 1 a town neighbor was NK'd. One who had multiple scum reads enough to make you wonder why they would have been NK'd.
If scum were their neighbor I can imagine Nos being a pretty good candidate for their NK because 1) The fact that neighbors sometimes have PR 2)The scum neighbor would be under more pressure talking to town one on one.

I would question the assertion that the fact that Nos had multiple scumreads makes you wonder why they would've been NK'd. I don't think there's a lot to be gained by thinking about it.

I'm having a hard time answering this post without succumbing to speculation, so I will, to try to show why I don't think it's helpful:
- If there was suspicion that Nos was a PR, because

sometimes

neighbours have a PR, it might be thought useful for scum to have an avenue into the thoughts of that PR.
- I don't think it's true that scum would be under more pressure one on one. PTs can be easier to post in because there's fewer critics, if you want: you're only dealing with one person rather than the whole game.

Because there's not enough information, none of this helps determine the alignment of anyone and it also doesn't help determine why nos was NK'd.

Either way, if Nos' neighbor is town, they shouldn't come out. They'll be getting suspicion from town and possible NK from scum.

This rings so disingenuous to me: you have helped create the suspicion the neighbour would be under from town. Why do you think they would be a possible NK target for scum?

I have a problem with the speculation in the thread, but that's one thing. I also have a problem with solely scummy conclusions being posted in the thread. I can't see any evidence for it and posting these possibilities without any foundation is shade-throwing.

[Roshar]

you have literally only elaborated on one read.

I'm only pushing one read at the moment. The others are sitting on the back burner because I want to reread some stuff in context first and then update my reads. I should be able to do some of that tomorrow.

Your vote preceded the back and fourth between lowell and rosh. What are your thoughts on lowell's charge?

huh.

so I read this, looked back and you're right.

Huntress votes Roshar for a quite a while.
Lowell and Roshar have a big back and forth and then Huntress...writes #1371 and pops out again.
like, didn't even address or comment on it at all.

yeah..yeah.
she likely is scum afterall

unvote, vote: Huntress

additional point: I thought jeanne was scummy and I think Huntress is. 2 people independently scummy in the same slot? (not to mention how KT was a pile of null)
This is prolly where I want to go.

Had Huntress commented on a bunch of things but specifically left me out, I'd have agreed. But her post was in essence a prod-dodge. She commented on nothing. So explain to me what made you think she avoided my interaction with Lowell, instead of reaching the conclusion that she's simply inactive.

[Roshar]

@Froot, let's see. I got my content from mafiawiki, and from what is stated there

1) In addition, Neighbors have been known to possess other power roles

2) Scum players, particularly those that do not like playing as scum, will not be able to maintain a pro-Town appearance for very long if engaged in dialogue like if they were a Mason

I find it suspicious that a neighbor would die N1. From these two points, I also think it is a logical conclusion to find the other neighbor suspicious.

I really don't understand how the fact that the neighbor would be considered suspicious isn't occurring to you.

I'm not scum-reading a player. I'm considering a very possible reason why Nos was NK'd.

-If there was suspicion that Nos was a PR, because sometimes neighbours have a PR, it might be thought useful for scum to have an avenue into the thoughts of that PR.-

That's assuming that 1) Nos will trust a random player with her thoughts and targets.
2)If scum neighbor assumes his neighbor is also a PR they'd rather keep her alive to see who she targets so they can avoid it.
Do you really think if scum neighbor caught hint that Nos actually has a PR they wouldn't simply NK her?

Yes, I helped create the suspicion that neighbor is suspicious. Because it's straight forward logic to me. I'd rather do that, and tell a potential town neighbor not to come out than pretend I didn't find the association scummy at all.

I think they'd be a possible NK target from scum for the same reason I quoted from mafia scum point 1. The possibility of another power role, like Nos had.

Solely scummy? No. Enough information? No. By all means, neighbor could be town. But the association remains, and it will throw suspicion on the neighbor slot.

In terms of you not thinking there's more suspicion one-on-one, I disagree. I've played skype mafia games and private message ones as well, and one-on-one can be pretty scary. I remember when I would be interrogated by town (when I was scum) I'd put the player up for NK because I was super paranoid I'd be caught. Because it's one-on-one

ALL

of Nosferatu's focus will be on her neighbor.

[Roshar]

I do think that's what happened. When I said pick Clumsy or Max, everyone picked Clumsy. I had no case on either of them. I hadn't read. So why would one be more popular than the other? Because Maxous is probably scum.

I'm not saying we should lynch Maxous to verify it. I'm just saying it's a very low risk lynch that has upside even if wrong.

Yes, but we had 10 days left when you voted him. 11 other players to engage with, and we should settle on pushing D1's wagon because it wouldn't take?

Have you caught up yet?

I think Maxous is flailing scum here, looking for things to attack. He sees that his initial offer on Lowell is gaining little traction, so he sheep's the first case stated by someone else on Huntress. His big deal is Huntress didn't comment. Yet, Maxous completely ignored

the allegation by Lowell that Roshar was fishing for votes on him.

Lowell was saying I was fishing for votes on Clumsy, unless I misunderstood something here.

No but seriously if I were scum I definitely would have killed Nos.

So yeah she's right about that

.

Where did I say this?

@Lowell

[Froot Loop]

My point is that there's not enough information for this kind of conversation to be useful. I'm not saying one or other is correct, I don't know, but because I don't know, and there's very little use from mentioning it, I wouldn't.

What was your motivation for posting about this? I'd really like to understand it.

There's things on the wiki which I could quote to highlight the town possibilities or positive-scum possibilities of the neighbourhood as well. It's listed as an informative scum role type, for one.

I understand it that the possible reason for Nos' NK is that his neighbour is scum and that you're scum-reading their neighbour. I can also imagine a scenario in which a scum player wouldn't kill Nos if they knew they were a PR. Again, it would depend on the player, the information they had, the state of the game, what the PR is and what roles were on the scum team.

I think the majority of the rest of your post is speculation or subjective, which I'm going to try and avoid. If there's anything specific you want me to respond to, let me know.

[Roshar]

I would consider both perspectives equally, and with no bias if Nos wasn't Nk'd.

[Roshar]

To point out that scum/town neighbor wouldn't come out. And if town, they should esp not come out.

[Lowell]

@rosh - I thought Nos being NKd was the basis of the case against me. I figured I'd help you along. But whatever.

[Roshar]

Where did I say that I thought you NK'd Nos because they had their vote on you? And who's case?