League of Legends (Old)

[Ankamius]

It's for the same reason, too.

They have to be able to get an Infinity Edge in order to be able to scale into lategame alongside IE-rush ADCs, but it's hard to justify getting it as a third item unless you're crushing the game since you won't have lifesteal or any defenses.

[Dwlee99]

It's for the same reason, too.

They have to be able to get an Infinity Edge in order to be able to scale into lategame alongside IE-rush ADCs, but it's hard to justify getting it as a third item unless you're crushing the game since you won't have lifesteal or any defenses.

^^^

[PJ.]

That wasn't true literally 2 months ago, What changed to make it in those two months(prior to midseason magic)

[Ankamius]

The tank meta rising up had a lot to do with it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

muh guad, jungle malz

[Heat]

i love league lore

[JasonWazza]

That wasn't true literally 2 months ago, What changed to make it in those two months(prior to midseason magic)

the iceborn+sunfire+spirit Visage combo rising up is a big problem for ADC's because they have so much armor to go through.

And an early %pen item is hard to justify.

[hiplop]

So veigar is pretty fucking overpowered

Wouldn't be shocked at all to see him #1 midlaner. I just played him, had 1200 ap in a 40 min game

[Psyche]

i can't wait to see what champion.gg says is going on this patch

[Randomnamechange]

Basically, adcs have a very low damage output and are in a bad place defensively on account of nerfs to qss, maw, sterak's etc. Also it being harder to build damage makes lifesteal less effective. Adcs have no pvp impact apart from drawing enemy fire.

[animorpherv1]

I mean we did just run through an ADC meta for the preseason and first few months of S6. This is how things work - the op things get nerfed, and eventually they get buffed back up.

[Randomnamechange]

The issue is that right now adcs aren't weak. They are useless. Even though their damage wasn't great a few patches ago they could still get stuff done due to some survivability.

[Gendaberry]

ADC isn't useless, just boring

[drmyshottyizsik]

ADC isn't useless, just boring

adc is the new support

[RayFrost]

I have a solution for everyone wishing ADC was relevant.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

ADC shouldn't be relevant early game. It makes the support role just useless if it is.

[Dwlee99]

ADC shouldn't be relevant early game. It makes the support role just useless if it is.

They should be at least somewhat relevant mid game though

[mykonian]

They bring waveclear, they bring single target dps unmatched by anyone else, they are still the guys you look at when everybody has 4 items. The QSS item, otherwise an awkward thing, even got lifesteal to be a more acceptable item.

It seems to me half the complaints are that you can't 1v5 as often as you could.

The overall problem is that they've just been pushed into an extremely team-focused role.
...
but it's very unrewarding to play since ... as well as your team to be able to enable you since the mid-game powerspikes are just not enough anymore.

I don't see how it's a problem that the squishy ranged damage dealer is dependent on his team to get him in a place where he can carry them. Isn't that the point?

[Dwlee99]

Go play adc for a few games

[RayFrost]

One sec, gonna go log in and try third time vayne with rageblade on my 200 ping.

[mykonian]

They keep making me fill it when we premade. I've played my share. My third played champ in ranked is an ADC.

I'm not any good, but I can fill it. I can do my share at high silver level, but nothing more than that.


And it's really just a bunch of whining. The adc changes made the curve smoother, and this was required, IE was a problem. The adc who got it first was a god compared to the guy who got it 2 min later. But other than that, the changes to the attackspeed choices, the new accessability of percentage armor pen, those are helping quite a bit. But over the last 3 seasons, has the role changed? Not a bit. The threats changes per season, but "tank meta" just meant that people played bruiser top, rather than maokai. There's been an abundance of ahri/lb/yasuo/zed and those guys were annoying, but hey, that's changing now. But there are always people who are trying to kill you, the flavour of it hardly matters. You still have to do exactly the same thing. Stay alive, deal the most damage you can. The rework of adc's has seen them have the biggest impact on games ever, be that kog taking over or caitlin setting up the teams siege, creating picks with jhin, or hell, just being kalista.

So yes, you do give the impression that adc mains are a whiny bunch who always feel like they are left out. You haven't had it this good in ages.

[mykonian]

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegend ... ge_update/

psyche, you might enjoy this.

[mykonian]

do take into account the swain free week effect.

[RayFrost]

17/10/14 on jhin while I fucked around completely. I shat on everything and anything that I chose to when I was actually paying attention. GP? NP. Vayne? NP. Vayne + Morgana? NP. Kindred? NP. Kindred + Vayne? Fml.

[Ankamius]

They keep making me fill it when we premade. I've played my share. My third played champ in ranked is an ADC.

I'm not any good, but I can fill it. I can do my share at high silver level, but nothing more than that.


And it's really just a bunch of whining. The adc changes made the curve smoother, and this was required, IE was a problem. The adc who got it first was a god compared to the guy who got it 2 min later. But other than that, the changes to the attackspeed choices, the new accessability of percentage armor pen, those are helping quite a bit. But over the last 3 seasons, has the role changed? Not a bit. The threats changes per season, but "tank meta" just meant that people played bruiser top, rather than maokai. There's been an abundance of ahri/lb/yasuo/zed and those guys were annoying, but hey, that's changing now. But there are always people who are trying to kill you, the flavour of it hardly matters. You still have to do exactly the same thing. Stay alive, deal the most damage you can. The rework of adc's has seen them have the biggest impact on games ever, be that kog taking over or caitlin setting up the teams siege, creating picks with jhin, or hell, just being kalista.

So yes, you do give the impression that adc mains are a whiny bunch who always feel like they are left out. You haven't had it this good in ages.

I just lost the big post I was writing, so I'll just summarize:

The strongest ADCs for the past several patches have fallen into one of the following categories:
1. They don't scale off critical strikes at all or building for it just isn't an optimal build for them (Kindred/Graves/Kog'Maw/Quinn)
2. They scale off critical strikes harder than other champions do, so finishing IE in itself, even as a first item, is a powerspike. It doesn't hurt that he's overtuned on top of it. (Jhin)
3. They heavily abuse very much broken items, aka Guinsoos Rageblade/Iceborn Gauntlet (Kog'Maw/Ezreal)

Lucian's the only one that doesn't fit into the above 3 categories, but the main reason he's strong is because he spikes earlier than every other ADC just by hitting 40% CDR, which is easy to do just off 2 items + CDR boots. Even so, while he does more damage than every other crit-based ADC, he still needs an IE to be a significant damage threat overall and really bring his burst home.

Where's everyone else? They either abuse Guinsoos and so can still be okay, but everyone else either has fallen to the wayside or just get play for their utility more than their damage before lategame.

This is all before 6.9, btw.

---

Basically, the situation we have is that ADCs who don't build crit are stronger than the ADCs that DO build crit right now, and half of those champions don't even go into bot lane. This is one reason the tank meta was so annoying for ADC mains; because there was just no good option to get third item against them. Last whisper items scale off your other damage items, so it's not a very good spike since it gives very little stats beyond the armor penetration, and ADCs really don't spike in damage until they have three damage items. Then you have to factor in that you might have to get Mercurial Scimitar instead for the QSS element, which only gives you more one offensive stat you want instead of the two you desire if you want to spike your damage (IE for ER builds for crit chance+AD, a second zeal item for IE builds for attack speed+crit chance). Combined with how disturbingly efficient the Iceborn+Sunfire builds were, the itemization awkwardness is really difficult to overcome in situations where your ADC gets ahead while the enemy tank does.

And that's underlying reason why I'm complaining that ADCs are in a bad spot. Riot did a good job in diversifying item builds when they did the adc reworks at the end of the season, but the overtuned items that have been appearing at the same time and the defensive options adcs have been building all being made less effective for them (while trying to push a high-cooldown revive as the replacement...) made them a significantly lower impact role outside of competitive team play.