Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[RachMarie]

So imp, who are Ranger scum budz?

[Imperium]

Hammering a Town read "just because I was bored and wanted get to scum-hunting the next day" followed up by ZERO scum-hunting the next day

is very Town while

Hammering a Scum read when you are being pressed yourself

is Obv-scum.

KTS is a troll (an enjoyable troll, but a troll nonetheless). Ranger is one of the top town players on the site.

Quickhammering a scumread because it looks like you are going to be lynched instead of convincing the people that are suspecting you that they are wrong about you is self-preservation, and it's a move that increases the likelihood of her getting the lynched which means that she's throwing the game if she's town. It's really fucked up to do this when one of your top town reads is catching up, particularly when you think that they are capable players.

[Ranger]

We shouldn't be no lynching today because of the possibility of stopping a kill and gaining an extra mislynch.

Exactly what I've been saying.

We are, absolutely, lynching today.

I'd rather not play the odds by offering myself and hoping we stop a kill during the night, of course, but there's an absolute 0% chance today ends in a no-lynch.

[Imperium]

If you ever quick hammered in the name of self-preservation, I'd quicklynch the shit out of you the next day because there's no fucking way you do that. If I quick hammered in the name of self-preservation, I'd expect you to lynch the shit out of me the next day because there's no fucking way I do that as town. Ranger is a good enough player where there's no excuse for her to do something so horrible and atrocious.

[Imperium]

This is the part where if I were scum I would speed-hammer beeboy and go straight into night.

That is not the case because I'm waiting for consent from both Performer and Heat.

[RachMarie]

Night actions:
Night one:
DCL (Jailkeeper) targeted Ravenpaw
Rachmarie (Doc) targeted DCL
Nominull (Mafia Goon) targeted DCL. Action failed.

Night 2:
DCL targeted Rachmarie.
Rachmarie targeted DCL. Action failed.
Patchendale (Goon) targeted Rach. Action failed.

Night 3:
DCL targeted Rachmarie.
Rachmarie targeted DCL. Action Failed.
Ravenpaw (goon) targeted Rachmarie. Action failed.

Night 4:
DCL targets Nominul.
Rachmarie targeted DCL.
Nominul targets Rachmarie. Action failed.

Night 5:
DCL targets Patchendale.
Rachmarie targets DCL.
Patchendale targets Rachmarie. FAIL. Cough cough... Action failed...

Night 6
DCL targets LNGrrrrr
Rachmarie targets DCL.
Ravenpaw targets Rachmarie. Acti- WAIT WHAT IT WENT THROUGH!?


Am I the only person who feels extremely bad for the scum? I mean like they had the worst possible amount of luck in this game


This was how we won that game lol

As for this game, ok Imp if you really think we can keep the night kill from happening, but the only one of the 3 I am sure on is Ranger.

I have you, MoI, and Kill as town, I know I am town, Need to sort out the rest. Oh and not as strong a town, but feel Titus is prob town, Wait who is left? other than

Imp, MoI, Kill, Titus, me

Ranger

Pedit

Yeah almost exactly TWO HOURS after I put masq at L-1, she runs in and quick hammers. I missed that I put masq at L-1. I did not have time to unvote to prevent a quick hammer. Yep that reeks of scum, especially with the whole oh woe is me I am going to be lynched at L3 when we have someone at L-1 I better rush off and hammer him before anyone unvotes.

Pedit again beeboy??? I dont think hes in this game?

[Imperium]

This is MYLO so pretty damn sure my scum reads on kill and Rach are spot on given this power wagon attempt.

Well I'll have you know: the reason I've defended Killthestory is that I've been under the impression he was a PR. So with you claiming jailkeeper, if he's not the roleblocker, then I recant my townread there.

I cannot see any world where Ranger quickhammers the day before LyLo because she is getting lynched as town.

The reason I hammered was experience. In Pokemon Episode 4, I was the first to call School of Science scum. I voted elsewhere, but was the first to make the case against them. I continued making my case against them. While not voting them. Then,

explicitly because of

my case

, a wagon formed on them. But when I

did

switch, it was called opportunistic and I was lynched. Case one, lesson learned: don't wait too long to vote a scumread, which Masquerade was.

Case two, and even more relevant to this game: Open 625. I had the three scum pegged as early as here. (I was wrong on which type was which, but correct on the names.)

iraonavp (3) – BROseidon, Heat, Jeanne11
BROseidon (2) - Ranger, Iraonavp
Ranger (2) - Performer, Beeboy

A wagon formed on me. I knew iraonavp was scum, and BROseidon was scum, and thought BROseidon was the hider guilty (he was), but couldn't get the lynch there. I also knew beeboy was scum, but knew that if BROseidon and iraonavp both voted me, or worse, town voted me, I would be lynched. So, what did I do? I hammered scum. Knowing it would look bad, but doing so anyway because if I let scum live, I could have been lynched.

In a cruel twist of irony, guess what happened the next day? I decided

not

to hammer a player I knew was scum, in spite of 100% knowing they were scum. And know what happened? Surprise, surprise. The very next page, I was lynched. Because I didn't hammer scum when I had the chance.

So, yes.

I hammered Masquerade, my strongest scumread, when my life was in danger, because the chance of lynching scum > lynching me.

VOTE: No Lynch

The correct play here is to lynch. If a kill is stopped, either by MagnaofIllusion or the roleblocker, then we gain an extra day phase. No-lynching is therefore a scum-oriented move.

So too is the wagon on me, btw. I find it no coincidence that all three of my scumreads (Ollie, RachMarie, and Titus) all joined it immediately.

If you were town and hallucinating enough where you thought it was a good idea to quick hammer town THE DAY BEFORE MYLO because you thought you might get lynched, then you would have explained why you were doing so more thoroughly. You would have pushed back on our cases on you, you would have done fucking anything but just quick hammer for your survival, which is a play that's so completely beneath your play as town that it would sincerely break my heart if you were town here because you're so many countless leagues above a player like that.

[Imperium]

Pedit again beeboy??? I dont think hes in this game?

Sorry, that was a quote from a different game.

[RachMarie]

Ok other two are Nos and Ollie

so my reads are as follows:

Stronger town reads on Imp, Kill, MoI and of course I know I am town,
Weakest town read is on Titus.
Weakest scum read on Ollie
not as weak on Nos but much weaker than on Ranger

Strongest scum read is on Ranger

@ Nacho what am I missing?

[Ranger]

Quickhammering a scumread because it looks like you are going to be lynched instead of convincing the people that are suspecting you that they are wrong about you is self-preservation, and it's a move that increases the likelihood of her getting the lynched which means that she's throwing the game if she's town.

Only if I was wrong.

I was, so here we are, but what would your impression be if I had hammered Masquerade and Masquerade had flipped scum? That I was scum, who doomed my scumbuddy, knowing I was likely still getting lynched tomorrow anyway? No. I'd be town, probably even town enough to overnight go from favored-mislynch to favored-nightkill. It didn't happen, because Masquerade wasn't scum, but I didn't know Masquerade wasn't scum when I voted them.

I have already laid out my experience in the matter. I have been mislynched for not hammering a scumread. It looked like that was going to happen again. You were pushing me as scum. MagnaofIllusion was pushing me as scum. I was heavily townreading both of you. You two are both very influential players. Masquerade was lurking. The wagon there was likely to dissolve because all it takes when under scrutiny is a little lurking and suddenly you're off scotch-free. Deadline was also encroaching slowly. So I made the call: hammer my #1 scumread, or wait and likely end up mislynched

again

for passing up on the opportunity.

You act like there's any choice to be made there.

There isn't. I wish there was, I hate that I have to do it, but I am, absolutely, right about this.

It's really fucked up to do this when one of your top town reads is catching up, particularly when you think that they are capable players.

The only factor you had in my decision was that you were voting me.

If you had wanted to reread without the day ending, then you should not have placed me in danger by voting me. What did you think was going to happen? That I'd let you wagon me to my mislynch, and let a scumread go?

[Imperium]

You act like there's any choice to be made there.

There isn't. I wish there was, I hate that I have to do it, but I am, absolutely, right about this.

If you were town, you lost the game on a bad read because you didn't have faith that anyone else could play the game properly.

[Imperium]

@ Nacho what am I missing?

That was a quote from one of the games Ranger was posting about to explain why she quick hammered when she did. I noted that she said, while in a very similar scenario, that if she was scum she would quick hammer and throw the game to night.

[RachMarie]

I meant on my reads list. I usually get at least ONE right sometimes 2 of 3 but never all 3.

[Imperium]

I'd swap out Kil for Nos in your position, but otherwise it's good to me.

[Ranger]

If you ever quick hammered in the name of self-preservation, I'd quicklynch the shit out of you the next day because there's no fucking way you do that.

Apparently I do, because I did exactly that. I hammered iraonavp in the name of self-preservation. The very next day, as you so helpfully point out, I didn't...and on the very next page, I was lynched for my trouble. I lost a game I should have won, because I did not hammer scum when I had the chance. I got mislynched for not hammering scum. You voted me and by all appearances, it looked like a case of history repeating itself.

There Masquerade was. I was not hammering Masquerade, in spite of the scumread I had there, because I did not want the day to end prematurely. But then YOU voted me. YOU placed me in danger. YOU, a player I was townreading, put me dangerously close to being lynched, just like Performer voted me and I was subsequently hammered by the actual scum that game. So I had no choice.

If you were town and hallucinating enough where you thought it was a good idea to quick hammer town THE DAY BEFORE MYLO because you thought you might get lynched, then you would have explained why you were doing so more thoroughly.

No, that'd be as scum. If Masquerade had flipped scum, no need to explain myself. My actions would speak for themselves.

The only reason I'd have to say this yesterday when hammering Masquerade was if I was scum and knew Masquerade was flipping town.

So this is absolutely backwards. Why defend against an action that shouldn't need defending against? When I hammered, I thought I was lynching scum. There's nothing to be apologetic about, not then, and not even now.

[RachMarie]

Why did you not call out INTENT TO HAMMER knowing that dudette was at L-1?

Why were you so worried about being at L-3 with her at L-1?

I think that is the point of it. Yes town would rather lynch scum not other townies, but most townies also recognize that mislynches happen. They do not freak out like you did. Imp was your strongest opponent and they were already voting you at that time.

[Imperium]

You act like there's any choice to be made there.

There isn't. I wish there was, I hate that I have to do it, but I am, absolutely, right about this.

If you were town, you lost the game on a bad read because you didn't have faith that anyone else could play the game properly.

[RachMarie]

Kill is kinda hard for me to read he trolls a lot, and I don't think the trolling is not alignment related like with Nero. In Nero's case he trolls heavily when hes town and not so much as scum.


@ Ranger

STILL you should have given intent, and given players a chance to unvote a L-1 player.

[Titus]

@Imperium/RachMarie, How wedded are you to your particular opinions on lynch or no lynch. I favor it myself because of the reasons Imp and Ranger say. You no lynch if there's no chance of getting an additional lynch. Yet, if RachMarie is wedded to no lynching, either we can't OR scum will be bussing (assuming RachMarie is town).

@RachMarie, VCA is about the choices scum make when given options. Without a scum flip, I don't feel 100% confident in my VCA. I'd do it, but it's weak at best. To feel even reasonably confident, I'd have to assume Ranger's scum, and we all know what happens when assuming.

[Imperium]

Rach already said that she's willing to lynch.

[Ranger]

That was a quote from one of the games Ranger was posting about to explain why she quick hammered when she did. I noted that she said, while in a very similar scenario, that if she was scum she would quick hammer and throw the game to night.

And you're missing the entire point.

I said that game that if I was scum, I'd be hammering, but I chose not to in order to wait.
The consequence of waiting.
The consequence of not hammering scum, as town.
Was that on the very next page.
Immediately.
I was voted by town.
And the scum hammered me.
Directly causing the town to lose.
Because I. didn't. hammer. scum.
Because I thought town wouldn't possibly be stupid enough to lynch me, when I had an opportunity to bring the game into night and chose not to.
Yet they did.

The outcome of that game, that loss, has directly influenced my trust in the competency of town players when they push a mislynch on me.
It is BECAUSE of that game that I hammered here. If not for that game, I wouldn't have hammered. If not for that game, I'd have believed my lack of hammer was evidence enough that I wasn't scum. But because of that game, I know better. So when you pushed for my lynch, when you voted me and placed me in danger...hell yes I hammered. If I could go back in time, I'd do it again.

Heck. Even if I knew Masquerade was town, I might still have done it.

Probably

not, but given the choice between Masquerade alive today and me alive today...that's not much of a choice.

[Imperium]

Ranger, in that game, you didn't hammer confirmed scum. The town lynched you immediately. They were idiots. The situation in this game is not similar at all.

[Imperium]

I've been lynched as confirmed innocent in LyLo before. Did that make me think that all towns were inherently dumb as shit? No. Every town is different.

[Titus]

Rach already said that she's willing to lynch.

Ok, that's not what I had in my notes. If that's the case, obviously my question was pointless.

[Ranger]

Why did you not call out INTENT TO HAMMER knowing that dudette was at L-1?

Because calling out intent to hammer is what got me mislynched in the first place.

Why were you so worried about being at L-3 with her at L-1?

I can only say "experience" so many times before it gets old. Like,

Ranger is one of the top town players on the site.

Regardless of whether this is true or not (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, my accuracy is back on the rise as of late but it had taken a nosedive for quite a while thanks to game apathy), what's

also

true is that I get mislynched incredibly often in spite of my good reads. In spite of being a "top town player", I still get mislynched a lot. I get nightkilled a lot, sure, but I get mislynched just as frequently. (Well, close enough. I've been nightkilled five extra times. Within the margin of error for being equal.) So with me going to L-3...when two of the three members of the wagon are some of my strongest townreads...yes I have very good reason to be worried.