Mini 1770: College Mafia! (Game Ovah)

[SirCakez]

Why are you so dissonant wtf

[SirCakez]

Yeah day 1 he did

[SirCakez]

Not that hard, but it was noticeable

[SirCakez]

That's pretty much the only thing I could see it being if you're town somehow :/

[SirCakez]

I'd really rather lynch massive but I doubt I could get the votes there in time

[SirCakez]

Titus says she would immediately unvote which is the problem

[SirCakez]

We have 3 hours

[SirCakez]

Zefiend needs to gtf in here

[SirCakez]

Oh yeah massive is V/LA on weekends
So he probaby won't be here before deadline anyway

[SirCakez]

I'm gonna be in a movie for the next two hours, but I should be back before deadline.

[SirCakez]

I'm 100% sure there's scum between you and Massive so yeah scum did jump on my wagon.

[SirCakez]

I'm here yo
Can we get the massive votes?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: massive
If massive is town I'm gonna flip my shit not gonna lie

[SirCakez]

Zefiend is confirmed town, he didn't hammer NH or massive
massive was almost assuredly scum

[SirCakez]

???
If he was scum he would have hammered whoever of NH and massive is town.

[SirCakez]

I'm not scum soooooo
Even if GL is scum one of you two has to be scum

[SirCakez]

If I was scum who had just won I would have fessed up already, I don't twilight troll

[SirCakez]

I'm pretty sure massive was scum and zefiend is going to die tonight. Making a 3p LyLo with NH, GL and I.
That's gonna be fun :/

[SirCakez]

I feel like Titus acting dumbfounded could be a towntell but I also think it could be faked pretty easily.

[SirCakez]

NH's dissonance is just bafflingly bad. If they are town they need to pull it together.

[SirCakez]

So it's GL, gg

[SirCakez]

I can make a case if needed but I think it's pretty clear.

[SirCakez]

Uh huh, not like I consistently said I preferred a massive lynch over NH lynch or anything
And you don't have a completely town game with me pretty sure
VOTE: GuiltyLion

[SirCakez]

I was certain in a NH/massive team, just more certain on massive
Then massive flipped Ninja and confirmed NH as town which of course leaves you as scum since the only way you and NH were both town is if Fire lied which I highly doubt

[SirCakez]

Oh right, Aero has weird tracker rules
You seem to have a lot of knowledge about the scum roleblocks huh?

[SirCakez]

Titus's reads were awful, that's nothing new.
A lot of people were pushing me early day 1, that means nothing.

[SirCakez]

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about the scum roleblocks huh?

zefiend I hope you can see through this shit

The shit of me being completely confused by this game's roleblocking mechanics? I wish I could see through that shit.

[SirCakez]

Probably because Dwlee was onto GL and NH could have gotten a guilty on him and was basically confirmed town due to the Ninja flip.

[SirCakez]

I meant I highly doubted Fire lied. Fire could have lied and GL still be scum, they aren't linked now that the weird Tracker rules have been clarified.

[SirCakez]

GL knows more about the night actions then me since he's the scum here. I think what he said is accurate, except switch him for me in the night actions obviously. I'm still pretty confused about all the roleblocking mechanics tbh, I was leaving that to others.

[SirCakez]

Have nothing really to add
I think GL has made it pretty clear he has inside knowledge of the night actions, if you still have questions fire 'em off.

[SirCakez]

Couple things I want to note
-massive tried to push me around with his bullshit "associative with Thor" case which I think is notable. Unless you think that was cross bussing or some shit.
-I never made a deal with the SK? I wasn't around when he got hamemted and claimed SK subsequently so ???

[SirCakez]

Oh I thought you meant actually negotiating with the SK like SK targets
I was fine with it because at the time I thought there was guaranteed scum between them due to the roleblocking mechanics (and GL is scum so I was correct in the end) and I thought a 2 for 1 town for scum trade wasn't awful.

[SirCakez]

In fact, as I reread shaddowez's ISO, it fits perfectly:

It definitely feels like Cake is White Knighting massive based on his willingness/joking regarding the NH and Jeanne wagons.

You have no scum reads, and don't want to continue wagoning people....yep, I'm good with this wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

SC - Do you have anything new to contribute? Basically every post of your since 180 has been repeating yourself (which you say in your posts) or asking for other people's opinions on NH. Do you have any other reads?

shaddowez was pushing you early for a lot of D1, which would explain why a scumteam with SC would block him.

Also I found this when digging through his ISO:

Thor is obvtown precisely for his Fire push. Scum Thor could easily justify jumping on Cakes or massive, instead he pushes Fire. Unless his team is SirCakez and massive, Thor is town.

lmao

Titus's reads were awful, that's nothing new.
A lot of people were pushing me early day 1, that means nothing.

I did respond to it Zefiend.

The massive questioning from Day 1 - I beat this to death back when I was getting wagoned for it but basically at the time it felt like a pointless wagon post-RVS with nothing backing it up.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

[SirCakez]

The feeling when both the townie and the mafia ignore your big "thoughts out in the open" post...

I'm at like a 60/40 point right now.

Maybe you guys could try telling me why you're town instead of scraping up cases on each other at the last minute that didn't exist at all before toDay.

I responded to that wall tho, in 1891.

I'd say the main things that make me town are pushing the massive lynch over NH yesterday and bumping the game at 8 hours until deadline. I'm aware my play in the early days was terrible, especially day 1 where I nearly got mislynched. I think the two things I just mentioned make up for that though. As you've stated, I could have easily sat on NH and avoided massive until deadline. And bumping the game when it was completely dead so close to deadline would have been idiotic as scum as well. It would have been much easier to lurk out the game to deadline, like what scum did in Evolution Mafia recently.
Also if it helps here's some LyLo meta worth looking at for me

Scum game in 4p MyLo that I was lynched in: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65884
Town game in 4p MyLo that I was lynched in: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65594
Town game in 7p LyLo that I was lynched in: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64977

[SirCakez]

The reason why my brain says SirCakez is
-the very bad connection to massive D1

Yes I did fight the early wagon on massive, but I'd like to point out there's very little scum motivation in trying to stop a RVS wagon like that on a buddy. If anything, wagons like those are a good way to create distance. And I was on the later massive wagon that got to L-2 as well.

- the fact that massive would probably bus to try to do anything helpful since he knew he was useless/likely to be on the chopping block anyway

massive doesn't regularly bus for one, I modded a game that he was scum in and he avoided pushing his partners, at least from what I remember (was a month or so ago).

- the fact that almost all of his reads and votes throughout the game have been seemingly conjured or based on very light, subjective reasoning

I can't deny this. This is how I usually play though, and the role interactions discussion are mainly why I've been so out of it this game.

- his trajectory in this game follows no natural progression or intent to solve the game; rather, his votes and opinions seem to revolve around whatever is currently going on and he hasn't really produced any independent content

See above.

[SirCakez]

Also look at what SC said makes him town - the fact that he pushed massive and the fact that he posted with 8 hours to deadline. He's literally using the wagon to angle for towncred, as I am trying to show you!

This isn't a scumtell?

DEADLINE SUDDENLY APPEARS 8 HOURS
VOTE: massive
I am more confident in this being scum then NH

Like, what about this reads to you like town pushing their scum suspect? This is an insurance vote. He moves to NH as soon as I showed up and we were in a crossvote

I only moved to NH because it looked like massive wasn't going to happen - because of you voting NH!

VOTE: massive
If massive is town I'm gonna flip my shit not gonna lie

Also this is just fake

"fake" a.k.a the vaguest accusation ever made

[SirCakez]

???
You avoided voting massive until you had to hammer him. Before that you were consistently focused on NH. You were working on derailing from massive.

[SirCakez]

By avoiding voting massive completely until the day end?

[SirCakez]

I was in a crossvote with NH too at one point, that didn't stop me from going back to massive.

[SirCakez]

I do think Cake's vote was bad and showed scum mindset.

Here's the start of Thor's consistent push on me. He never drops this scumread.

In the meantime - on the basis that I agree Cake is screwy and massive is bad, please sheep me on Firebird.

This is more pushing on me. Thor would have had to been double bussing here if I was scum and Thor wouldn't do that as scum.

Thor - why would scum!Firebringer claim a PR on D1 at the slightest sign of pressure? What does scum gain from that? He saves himself for a day or two at most.

"Thor, why would scum claim a PR over a VT" is what you're asking me here.
To which my answer is - because that's what most scum do...like, easily over 50% of scum claims when they happen claim a PR because that's proper scum play.
Like, as a reverse, how often do you see scum claim VT versus PR?

Now, on the presumption that you agree with me that most scum claim a PR the only raised issue here is the *when*, not the claim, but that it happened on Day 1.
That said, read between the lines on what he's claiming and recognize that he is literally making one of the single safest scum PR claims in the game *while still keeping it vague enought hat if he needed to change it he could and would have plausible deniability*.

At that point what you're asking me is "Thor, why would scum softly hint at something to avoid being a lynch target" to which my answer is - "why wouldn't they, that's what scum want - to *not* be a lynch target. Because if scum don't get lynched, odds are they win the game, so he is, in fact, doing exactly what scum should do."

So my question back is - what has he done that remotely seems like something scum wouldn't do and why?

Also, while we're at it, what do you think of his reaction to me?
Do you see that as a town reaction of someone who felt the need to hint being a town PR?
Or do you see that as nervous scum recognizing that he is busted?

Because I know what it looks like to me, and it's so blatant I am concerned that you don't see it - so what do you see?

Here's a big wall response Thor made to GL that looks like scum feeding content to a buddy.

I found Cake the only obviouslly objectionable vote, though Kirroha's was a solid runner up in skeeviness.

More shade casting at me

This is even more interesting.SirCake has bounced way up in my scum rankings.

And more.

Because Fire always plays like this. I learned that the hard way in another game as town where I pushed him for all the same reasons you are.

You are really not paying attention to my stated reasons.
Then again no one is.
Then again maybe I'm overestimating how clear I've made them.

You did read my "cards on the table" post, right?
Did you get anything from it at all - or did you have no idea what I was sayign and decided to ignore it and not ask for clarification?
I'm really wondering this because I am not having that case responded to and I'm thinking it means literally nobody understands what I'm saying but are refusing to admit it and ask me. Which is bonkers.

@SirCakes

Are you intentionally ducking these questions?
If not - please answer them.
If so - please say so, in order that I don't need to keep repeating myself.

And more.

@GuiltyLion - your play is atrocious and dodgy, I'm not compromising with you, and considering your past actions I find it disingenuous that you're trying to do so with me. Especially since there are so many other vanity wagons with less support than my wagon on Fire - why not address them? Firescum just amps up your tell here, better start prepping that defense, you can't get rid of me.

Here's the first and only mention of a GL scumread in his ISO. He never follows this up.

Though, actually, in thinking about it, the worst I could say about Ari's play is something I could also say about both the people voting him.

No idea what this is supposed to mean, can you explain?

I mean the best case I could make against Ari I could just switch out names and make it against you - so I'm wondering why you're voting him with a naked vote.

My vote isn't naked, I posted my thoughts D1

Unless you state it as the same reasons as before, that is a naked vote - now the vote isn't naked.

My biggest problem is with how he said "tojam is giddy to kill a PR [referring to his NH vote]", which looks to me like what scum would say when they're trying to push a wagon through. There's no natural reason to describe tojam's play that way, it's pure embellishment.

I hate this reasoning, but you actually just bumped into a town read for me so, good work on that.

Hop on the Jeanne wagon now - it should be sexy.

And here he makes GL a townread for hating his reasoning?

Tl;dr Thor heavily pushed me while avoiding interaction with GL

[SirCakez]

Zefiend pls say something

[SirCakez]

VOTE: SirCakez

I'm looking elsewhere for now.

I like the target, I hate the vote.

1. Why Cake?

2. Why not Firebringer? (and, as an addendum to this question - what are your thoughts about his nervously self-noted OMGUS on me after I claimed I caught him as scum, like, you find that the townie reaction? Y'know, when you play as scum and someone is like "I *know* you are scum" your immediate reaction is to vote them, laugh it off as OMGUS, and not start demanding to, y'know, ask 'why' they claim to know you're scum, since clearly they have to be wrong, and also it would be slightly psychotic for scum to try a 1 v 1 on Day 1, so...y'know, they're either incredibly bad scum you ought to be able to own, or really mistaking town you should try to sort...that's how you'd play it, right, with an OMGUS? Talk me through your reaction, or specifically your lack of one, to that.)

Thor on replacing in did a lot to steer attention away from both massive and SirCakez and push it onto Firebringer. This post in particular is a long case singling out kirroha and trying to move her from Cakez to Fire. It's exactly what NH said -

unless his team is massive/Cakez

, Thor is town, because he went for a completely different (and difficult) push rather than jumping on a plausible mislynch, if either of them had been town. NH got the read wrong because the top two wagons of the day so far had been on scum

More in a sec as I'm mobile posting

This is basically the only legitimate post you have for me being scum with Thor. And the like 5 times he said later he was scumreading me/hated my posts or whatever outweigh this.

Overnight - Nigh Hunter makes a move I agree with for reasons that are unclear to me.
Firebringer continues to claim scum by playing AtE bombs against both people voting him while tryingto appear playful and making 5+ posts with zero scumhunting in them.
The rest of the thread sleeps and continues to miss the scum claims, or is sitting there scared to comment on the ongoing events for reasons that also escape me.

Not sad with the current vote count, that one will be atreasure trove later. I am intrigued that as I come in and start a hard push on scum the massive wagon disintegrates and the Cake wagon builds. I have no idea what that means now, but on the off chance I'm not around later I'd just like to note to everyone that a few flipped alignments will make that one super interesting.

I also notice a couple of times that Thor draws attention to both massive and SirCakez simultaneously (while pushing neither). There's another quote I accidentally deleted that I'll put up right after this one. But this one is particularly noteworthy because Thor starts trying to distance

between

massive and Cakez. He's making it sound like one is town and one is scum, and I suspect he planned to push that angle later if one of them ever got flipped.

Scum doesn't do distancing for someone else wtf is this. That's not how distancing works.

Hurm, that post wasn't signed, but I will take by inference that you are saying it was Titus.
My counter then to your gut read is - ask Titus about my usual "tone" and then come back and clarify if you still think this is how I play as scum but not as town. I think that will save me a headache and you time.

In the meantime - on the basis that I agree Cake is screwy and massive is bad, please sheep me on Firebird.
Seriously - ask Titus to read my entrance and Fire's claim again in context, then sheep.

Here's the other post where Thor suspects both Cake and massive in the same breath. It may be all just WIFOM (I usually look at what living players say about the flipped scum rather than vice versa), but I think he's being cheeky here and covering for two partners simultaneously. Surely he wouldn't soft-scumread-and-distance from BOTH partners, right? That's what I would want to think when rereading him, which was probably his design.

Thor isn't one of those "WIFOM!" players who would double bus to fight meta. Actually this was one of his first games back iirc. So to suggest he was trying to out-WIFOM by double scumreading is ridiculous.

All of the votes that aren't on one of the top three wagons need to move to one of those wagons. Fire isn't happening today.
We may have to move back to Thor if we can't get the NH votes.

This post from Cakez is interesting. He's softly floating a Thor lynch, but with very little conviction. Similar to how he 'pushed' massive yesterday. It a grab for towncred in case Thor wound up being a surprise D1 lynch, but then he kept his vote on NH and then moved to tojam

This is basically suggesting a bizarre bussing/distancing/grab for towncred play which makes no sense.

Also Cakez saying Thor "heavily pushed" him is scum embellishment. Thor didn't ever vote Cakez, he chased down people who were voting Cakez instead.

I have multiple quotes backing this up. He was definitely pushing me.

[SirCakez]

Cakez why do YOU think Thor suggested only one of you/massive would be scum, while scumreading you both?

And Thor 'scumread' you. He never pushed you. He never voted you, never explicitly endorsed your wagon.

Also how much experience do you have with Thor and Thor meta? You are making a lot of claims about what type of player he is or isn't.

Easy way to scumread his buddy without actually making a hard push on him, associate him with town.
All of those quotes speak the opposite.
A good bit. This game, Soccer Spirits (he was scum), Open 635 (he was town) off the top of my head.

[SirCakez]

Please don't let it run all the way to deadline in case you forget to come on and vote then. About a day and a half left.

[SirCakez]

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

[SirCakez]

Ok the majority of the time then :p

[SirCakez]

Scum just won
motherfucker

[SirCakez]

Fourth time being mislynched in LyLo

[SirCakez]

He was so fucking obvious too

[SirCakez]

don't forget about SC trying to make chain lynch plans with Ari. I feel we didn't bring that up too much

Look at this shit
I don't understand how you could have possibly thought this was town

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

Ehh I'm just glad this is finally over to open up another Mini slot
No one can say I didn't try

[SirCakez]

Yeah that's true
Another game Titus deathtunnelled me as town T-T
Dwlee's reads were superb though

[SirCakez]

dw Nahdia now you have another friend in the mislynched Cakez in LyLo group

jkjkjk

[SirCakez]

I HAD SUCH GOOD READS AND NO ONE LISTENED

I KNOW
It was saddening

[SirCakez]

Yea I think I'm gonna nom Dwlee for Rising Star.
I don't get townread often because scum likes to mislynch me in LyLo ;-;
P-edit: mylo lylo ok Nahdia pls

[SirCakez]

I didn't even notice that, either. Damn.

[SirCakez]

That's my favorite salt gift
I use it a lot ;-;

[SirCakez]

Gif not gift* lol

[SirCakez]

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

You've been correct the whole time, don't outguess yourself.

tfw he outguessed himself

[SirCakez]

Aero pls save us

[SirCakez]

dammit Titus
dammit Zefiend
dammit Nahdia
dammit SirCakez

[SirCakez]

Lol at the empty frat house thread

[SirCakez]

Not authorized to read scum chat
FeelsBadMan

[SirCakez]

Ok I just got around to reading through this game's open PTs (sorry for necro)

Titus I didn't fake any reads wtf <.<
Can we please see the scum PT at some point though q.q

[SirCakez]

I don't even know how I would fake reads as town...

[SirCakez]

b-but I had logic.....
Which reads looked fake?