Newbie 1707 - Game Over

[Raskolnikov]

V/LA till sunday.
Lynchpool is {Kala, Red, Rad} in more or less that order. Partner potential influences is a major factor here.
Don't end day before I get back.

If I don't see the ISO or whatever game catchup by then I'm just voting rad though.

[RedCoyote]

As I've alluded to, I think KS is probably the best lynch today. I feel a little blind about it because of how lurky he is, but, on the other hand, I'm becoming more and more convinced Murph is town. I don't readily see his latest string of posts as optimal scum strategy. If it is, he's doing well, I think.

KS has had ample opportunity to scumhunt properly and has neither done so nor reached out to us/the moderator with a reason why. I've not been voting for far too long, but it mainly was because I couldn't make up my mind whether I should go after KS or Murph today. KS only has 26 total posts. Far be it from me to criticize someone solely on a post count (given that often times I have very low post counts myself), but I know how to assess whether or not those few posts have enough meat to chew on or not, so to speak. His don't. In other words, you can't simply write this off as him being busy (if you are busy for month you shouldn't be playing). He came up with some stuff earlier about not wanting to be in the spotlight. Though at the time I considered that reasonable, especially for a newbie game, I am now beginning to think that was just a ploy to allow him to fly under the radar without criticism. Taking all this together, along with the strange relationship wgeurts and KS had with one another (this deserves a separate post, really, but I have spoken about this some in earlier posts), I think we're faced with lurking scum. At this point, short of a claim that may change things, I'm willing to move forward on KS.

VOTE: KaladinStormblessed

Mod

, please post VCs more frequently.

That should be the second vote on his wagon. I'll give us a current, unofficial vote count:

KaladinStormblessed (2) - AlpacaAlpaca, RedCoyote
AlpacaAlpaca (0) -
Murph (0) -
Hoppic (1) - RadiantCowbells
Raskolnikov (0) -
RadiantCowbells (0) -
RedCoyote (2) - Raskolnikov, Murph

Not Voting: Hoppic, KaladinStormblessed

[RedCoyote]

Also, Ras, did you intentionally vote me twice to make a point or was it accidental?

[AlpacaAlpaca]

Is the number votes needed to lynch someone decided by half the players rounded up?

[Hoppic]

Frankly, the more antagonism I read in regards to Seth, the more convinced I am that this is wagon is largely driven by emotion and personality. It's certainly not something I want to be a part of.

Yes, he was right about two things, that Seth was town and that there were townies on the wagon, i.e. that they were driven by "emotion and personality" rather than nefarious scum purposes.

It's possible that redcoyote is so clear sighted and experienced that he can see what the rest of us can't, but I don't believe it. If he was as sure as he seemed to be and he was town, he'd be arguing it more, I think. Like, either he's NOT sure and holding back, or he IS sure in which case he'd be arguing it. Here, he's not really arguing it, he's just stating his opinion, and he's sure. Idk.

[Hoppic]

I didn't decline. I pointed out that I had already commented on it and even included the posts relevant to said comments. Yes, I feel like you did have an agenda. You cannot refute my opinion without also accepting that it didn't change my opinion. 2 way street.

Decline is apt given that I asked you to produce something, you acknowledged that request yet you failed to do so. Show me the post where you "included the posts relevant", because this is exactly what I asked you to do.

The rest of us are wrong in thinking/saying Seth's play thus far has been anything but anti-town ?

Yes, that is correct. Someone having a different playstyle /= being anti-town. I've seen Seth do stuff I wouldn't do as town, but nothing he's done has objectively harmed the town. A self-vote is anti-town. Spamming the thread is anti-town. Prodigious lurking is anti-town. Uncivil and/or classless behavior can be anti-town. Excessive fluff can be anti-town.

This isn't an all-inclusive list, but do you see my point? You can't just call someone you disagree with or you think is scummy "anti-town". Someone that should be "policy lynched". These terms are being thrown around much too loosely.

true.

Okay, take off your blinders and look at what we've said :knowing: it comes from townies. Does it change anything for you ?

Pardon? Which players are you saying you "know" are townies?

True. That was weird that murphy said that.

[Hoppic]

This game is the definition of brainwash and how it leads to a mislynch.

I think redcoyote is scum, but I'm getting bored of today and want to move on so I'm going to hammer Seth in about 12 hours unless anyone speaks up in the meantime.

If you turn out to be town at the end which is not possible, you are an embarassment and you shouldn't play at mafiascum.net again, you are solving the game and you don't give a fuck about mislynches just cause you are really bored and want to move on, then why the fuck are you on forum mafia? You are aware of the fact that forum mafia takes months to even a year to finish, there are always marathon, irc, and sc2 mafia and you didn't pick any of them because you came here to piss people the fuck off that dedicated themselves to the game. The worst you have done is that you hammered me acknowledging that I should be lynched whether I am town or not because my trap is that fucking disastrous end-game when it's just a simple reaction test bait, but no you are brainwashed by wgeurts really well and that's wgeurts trademark playstyle. Of course you deny this because you didn't say this at your post at all, but you didn't say what alignment am I because you believe this policy lynch bs, when will you realize that the policy lynch was an exxagerated reaction to my first post?
Oh wait why I am telling you this when you're guaranteed to be scum?

It got to the point where the entire DP1 was about you and whether or not you were scum. People couldn't look past that and consider other possibilities, so that's why I was okay hammering you. We need to know one way or the other so we could move on. Normally, when I mislynch other townies I feel bad, but I don't this time because I think you're to blame. You played anti-town deliberately, and you only suspected people who voted for you; and you town-read people who thought you were town. That's unfortunate.

[Hoppic]

Yeah, Hoppic is definitely scum.
And I'd be willing to bet cash that KS also is.
VOTE: Hoppic
Await walls when I'm home, I've reread the entire game and I suggest everyone else does as well.

The strange thing about this is that he's still confident in his reads. If I were in his shoes and had just spent DP1 aggressively leading a mislynch, I would doubt myself. I wouldn't follow up with such sure reads and votes. On the other hand, he did ask to be replaced, which is consistent with feeling bad about DP1. So, on the whole, I'm leaning town on wgeurts.

Apart from anything, that's really risky play to be so aggressively after a mislynch as scum on DP1, and also, why would you risk it for someone like Seth who is begging for a mislynch? I think scum would be much more likely to be quieter. So for now I'm going with wgeurts being town.

[Hoppic]

Believe it or not, I was referring to the end of D1. You know, when it actually mattered. Must you be so disingenuous?

I'm reading 520, and you're effectively giving your blessing to the Seth lynch.

Not really. Saying wtf is not the same as okaying a lynch.

[AlpacaAlpaca]

Hoppic In post 780 you say true quoting where Coyote said Seth wasn't playing anti town than in post 781 you say Seth played anti town mind clearing that up for me?

[Hoppic]

I've read the whole thread through and I'm going to vote for

redcoyote

by the end of the day. I just want to give him a few days to claim or other people to argue.

[Hoppic]

Hoppic In post 780 you say true quoting where Coyote said Seth wasn't playing anti town than in post 781 you say Seth played anti town mind clearing that up for me?

I was agreeing to the part where is said that people shouldn't be policy lynched for playing differently. There was no good reason to policy lynch Seth. When I said he was anti town, I meant that his play was not helping town. I didn't lynch him for that reason: I thought that he could well be scum. But also, I felt that the play had got to the point where we couldn't make progress until we knew one way or the other about him, and he was partly responsible for getting it to that point, although we all had a part in that, obviously.

[Hoppic]

I THINK the vote count is:

Kaladin (2) - alpaca, redcoyote
Hoppic (1) - radiantcowbells
Redcoyote (2) - Raskolnikov, Murphy

Not voting: kaladin, Hoppic (although I plan to vote for redcoyote)

[Jackal711]

A thousand apologizes for my absence. I've been unavoidably without access since shortly after my last post that is going to continue until the beginning of July.
Mina will assign a replacement mod within the next 24 hours or so.

[Mina]

Equinox will be taking over this game. A colossal thanks to her!

[Equinox]

VOTE COUNT 2.3

KaladinStormblessed (2) - AlpacaAlpaca, RedCoyote
AlpacaAlpaca (0) -
Murph (0) -
Hoppic (1) - RadiantCowbells
Raskolnikov (0) -
RadiantCowbells (0) -
RedCoyote (2) - Raskolnikov, Murph

Not Voting: Hoppic, KaladinStormblessed

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Activity Notes: Raskolnikov is on V/LA until June 12.

Day 2 deadline is Thursday June 16th at 11:15 pm PDT which is in (expired on 2016-06-16 23:15:00)

[RedCoyote]

Thanks, Equinox! We've been sorely missing VCs. Good luck to Jackal.

Look, Hoppic, I don't know that there's much else that can be said by me that hasn't already been said. I appreciate your opinion in the sense that I think you're being fair and thoughtful in it. I see how you arrived there. Again, like Murph, I believe you're letting pride blind you in the sense that you refuse to comprehend Seth as town. You see it, you acknowledge it, but you don't really comprehend it. For reasons I don't understand, many of the players here saw him as exceedingly anti-town. I did not. I still do not. That should be put behind us, however, and we should only realize that he flipped town and that the battle of D1, the Seth lynch, was a victory for the scum team.

My contention is that our best hope in lynching scum today would be to focus off of the Seth wagon. The makeup of the Seth wagon does not seem to me to be heavily influenced by scum given what I just mentioned. Given that there are only three choices, myself among them, I had hoped more people would be willing to open their mind to the idea that they need to take a step back and reassess what went wrong with the Seth lynch. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case. As much credit as I'm willing to give you for taking the time to go back and look over old posts, you, like Murph and Ras, aren't willing to reconsider the important stuff.

You mentioned that I didn't argue enough in favor of Seth yesterday. I contend that I made numerous pleas to the rest of the game begging them to explain, logically, why they supported the Seth wagon. I ultimately arrived at the conclusion, which I stated clearly before you hammered, that the wagon was based on emotion and not logic, and I could not support it. Further, I proposed what I thought at the time to be a very valid alternative, which you should be well aware of given that it was you. It's hard for me to see how you could call me out for not arguing enough when my arguments were more or less ignored altogether yesterday. I say this because no one ever did join me in voting you D1. No one ever did unvote Seth. It seems to me that any more arguing would've been futile, but a culmination of my antiestablishmentarianism (don't get to use that word everyday ) was in 572 wherein I took on Ras, Murph, wgeurts, Alpaca and you all at once. In other words, I'm not sure what else I could've done to change hearts and minds, and I think you saying that I should've tried harder is you denying the reality of that situation (which you, more than anyone else in the game, should know full well).

I see you have said you are willing to vote me. In this situation, if Radiant or KS is also willing to make that pledge, it would be standard for me to claim my role. I strongly suggest those on my wagon reconsider. It wouldn't be helpful for the town if I were to claim, much less be lynched, today.

[RedCoyote]

Is the number votes needed to lynch someone decided by half the players rounded up?

Yes.

3 players = 2 votes to lynch
4 players = 3 votes to lynch
5 players = 3 votes to lynch
6 players = 4 votes to lynch
7 players = 4 votes to lynch

etc, etc, etc

Unless you're playing a theme game with a different voting mechanic, this will be the case for all normal Mafia games on the site.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi!

[Equinox]

KaladinStormblessed and Murph have been prodded.

[Murph]

I'm traveling again. I thought I'd have more time earlier today

There are still a couple of players that need to contribute.

I'll be around

[KaladinStormblessed]

I have become v/la and will be for about a week, probably will be able to sneak in some posts, but I really intended to step it up and then, as the wiki calls it, 'meatworld' got in the way

[Hoppic]

I have become v/la and will be for about a week, probably will be able to sneak in some posts, but I really intended to step it up and then, as the wiki calls it, 'meatworld' got in the way

Please vote! We only have a few days left.

[Hoppic]

@redcoyote. Thanks for your answer. It's true that you did give arguments, but overall I got the impression that they were defensive arguments, by which I mean you were giving explanations when asked directly (as in the post you cited) rather than arguments you were coming up with spontaneous ly. Maybe it's because I discounted what you said, especially about me because it was wrong. Even so, that's my impression.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RedCoyote

My only real scumread on reading this game.