Mini 1801 - Undertale: Kill or Be Killed Mafia [Game Over!]

[frog]

Votecount 1.18

BTD6_Maker (4)

- Dunnsral, GuiltyLion, Creature, GreyICE

[L-3]

KittenLicks (3)

- BTD6_Maker, Clumsy Phoenix, thenewearth

[L-4]

Creature (2)

- Parama, KittenLicks

[L-5]

Clumsy Phoenix (1)

- Rory

[L-6]

Not Voting (2)

- frog, JaeReed

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is Tuesday, June 30th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________


Hi all, I've just replaced in, and I'll catch up shortly. In the meantime, if there's anything/anyone especially pressing that you want some opinions on, let me know.

[thenewearth]

I'm still not convinced that Parama is town. They made that early push on me, then when people townread me and dismissed it as TvT, they didn't make any effort to convince people. As a result, the entire thing got dismissed as TvT (or as a VI in one case), and Parama was townread for it. I don't think it would be beyond scum!Parama to make an early push on someone that was (at the time) widely townread.

So what you're saying is... you think its Town v Town but you think he's not town but he's a townVI that's scum?

What the---

This is more wishy washy than a laundry place

[KittenLicks]

I'm still not convinced that Parama is town. They made that early push on me, then when people townread me and dismissed it as TvT, they didn't make any effort to convince people. As a result, the entire thing got dismissed as TvT (or as a VI in one case), and Parama was townread for it. I don't think it would be beyond scum!Parama to make an early push on someone that was (at the time) widely townread.

So what you're saying is... you think its Town v Town but you think he's not town but he's a townVI that's scum?

I... what?

I'm saying that I'm not convinced that Parama is town, and that their push on me got dismissed as TvT, except by one person (Creature) who thought Parama was a VI.

[KittenLicks]

Am I phrasing things weirdly or something? o.O What I was saying there made perfect sense to me.

[thenewearth]

Either way you're being so wishy washy u scum

[KittenLicks]

Either way you're being so wishy washy u scum

Either way, as in, whether or not my post actually said that about Parama?

[thenewearth]

Is he town or not?

[KittenLicks]

You're acting like that's supposed to be an easy question.

I feel that Parama's early push on me was anti-town, and I do not like how they didn't try to persuade people to vote me after people dismissed it as TvT. Some of their posts I agree with, others I do not.

Would it be easier for you if I say "null leaning scum"?

[KittenLicks]

I mean, if you want to call that wishy-washy, go ahead, but I don't have a read strong enough to say either way.

[thenewearth]

I rest my case

[KittenLicks]

Have you considered the irony in calling me a member of the informed minority because I don't know if someone is town?

I mean, you basically just said "You are a member of the faction that knows who is town, because you don't know who is town."

There's a certain wifom aspect to it, but really, your reasons for scumreading me don't even make sense.

[KittenLicks]

Clumsy Phoenix's

recent posts seem town. I think the overdefensiveness I saw earlier might just be their playstyle.
I have no idea why people are seeing

Creature

as town.

{Pants, BTD6, Clumsy Phoenix, GreyICE}

Clumsy Phoenix looks pretty town.

GreyICE is looking town.

Pants98 has been recently replaced.

So currently:

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

Why are you choosing your vote from GuiltyLion's scumpool?

I can kind of see what

GreyICE

is doing regarding scumreads, and it feels genuine. Terrible, but genuine.
I don't really like how

GuiltyLion

approached GreyICE's read on them.

I think it's hard for two players in a scum hydra to intentionally and convincingly sell a fake narrative of having separate reads. For those two posts to come from scum, they would have to:
a) agree to read Kitten/Parama in opposite directions
b) agree to present these reads in thread by posting under different heads
c) do so in a way that reads as genuine

Why do you think it's unlikely that they'd decide to read people in different directions?

Not really sure what to think of thenewearth right now.

[frog]

Creature's early posts don't really contribute much of substance. If the game needs more 'spice', as they claim, it would be lovely if they were to introduce that. Random reads with no explanations, an unwillingness to explain any of them at all on post #108, followed by a deflection towards the inactives in #130. If he is, as he claims, a man of few words, this makes sense. I might read a previous game or two to get a better read.

I like JaeReed's first few posts, although as others have pointed out the reaction tests had been exposed well before he entered the game properly. Engages well to make up for the relative lateness, and asks perceptive questions. This continues for the rest of the game up to this point. Leaning town.

I don't like the way Parama enters the game. Maybe that's just because their first few posts look far too serious for the RVS/immediately post-RVS stage, and their serious interpretation of posts made early in the game, but something about it rubs me up the wrong way. Remark on post #141 is particularly annoying ('why do you care about jaereed's post 8 townreads') since they're happy enough to read into something as early as post #2. Reading later into the game, however, I'm beginning to like the content of their posts a little more, if not their tone.

Dunnstral I'm null-leaning-town on. Early game comments are useful, but then there's a fairly confusing mess about misinterpretations with KittenLicks later on. This reads as town on town to me, not least because they both seem to be working in the same direction and some of the disagreement is about theory rather than just comments. Later posts clear up confusion and serve to focus the conversation where it might otherwise have gone somewhere less promising.

BDT6_Maker we have almost nothing on. Half of their posts are excuses for not posting. I don't like this. Seconding calls for a replacement if they can't give the game the attention it deserves. I don't like post #325, however. Nothing about the post he's quoting demands a response calling attention to roles.

GreyIce and thenewearth are both recent entrants and I have little on them as of right now, although I'm not a fan of the latter's attacks on KittenLicks. P-EDIT: really not a fan.

I'm not all that convinced by the case on Kitten. The discussion of the circle mechanic is null, especially since it occupied other players such as Dunnstral and Creature, the former of whom doesn't appear in thenewearth's suspect list. I don't think post #26 is rolefishing either, since Kitten attempted to shut down discussion before (and does it again in this post). If anything, this exchange just reflects badly on GuiltyLion, who not only keeps asking about something it's clear might be damaging, but then goes on to talk about potential PR claims in post #23, which is far more rolefish-y. I generally like Kitten's posts, so I'm leaning town here too.

I do, however, agree with Dunnstral's assessment of Clumsy Phoenix's early posts. Post #45 is a little scummy; it seems needlessly preoccupied, given there's only a couple of votes on Clumsy Phoenix, with proving their own innocence, and it isn't actually doing anything. It takes until post #81 for them to start being proactive (and even then there's a reference to them being not scum), and then in their next post, #83, we return to the introspection. Incidentally, the first time I read the whole 'any response I make will look scummy' thing, I thought it could be frustrated town, but the reiteration in their most recent post gives me the opposite impression.

Here's the problem with your statement: you're not playing to it. I agree with the sentiment, explaining yourself clearly and moving on is a good thing to do, but you keep returning to the issue (and there have been several issues) all the while reminding us of what you're (not) doing and how it's actually town behaviour (or, at least, how any behaviour you could engage in is scummy, so you're not scum).

Unvote

Vote: Clumsy Phoenix

There was unsurprisingly a lot to read, so if anyone wants clarification or more detail, just ask.

[KittenLicks]

Hi frog, glad to see an active player replaced in. ^_^

What do you think of GreyICE's push on Guilty Lion/JaeReed/BTD6?

What do you think of Clumsy Phoenix's later posts (as in, #83 onwards)? Also, why do you feel that reiterating that that any behavior one could do is scum is something that scum is more likely to do than town?

[thenewearth]

I am also down for a phoenix vote

[KittenLicks]

I am also down for a phoenix vote

Why do you scumread Phoenix?

[Rory]

I will admit skipping Parama's posts, as reading those when catching up is a pain.

Now that you've caught up can you read Parama's posts? :p

And yeah I'm having trouble getting solid reads too.[/quote]

Not a chance lol.

[Rory]

how did I fuck that up...

[Rory]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I think it might be worth pushing here. The fact that he lists Clumsy Phoenix in his scum pool and then explains why CP is not likely to be scum reads kinda weird.
I'd like to hear some explanation on his CP read.

[KittenLicks]

I will admit skipping Parama's posts, as reading those when catching up is a pain.

Now that you've caught up can you read Parama's posts? :p

And yeah I'm having trouble getting solid reads too.

Not a chance lol.

Kind of concerned that you don't want to read the posts of one of the people you have in your null pile.

[Rory]

Why is that? I'm more concerned about other people right now. I will sort Parama when the time comes. Which is not today.

[KittenLicks]

Why is that? I'm more concerned about other people right now. I will sort Parama when the time comes. Which is not today.

I can understand not wanting to sort them right now, but it seems kind of, I dunno, rude to not read what they've said at all. This is a game in which the only method we have to communicate with each other is the posts we make, and it seems kind of wrong to just discard everything a person has communicated like that.

And then there's the game related reasons. What if Parama has said something so scummy that they are 100% scum and a guaranteed lynch for today? What if they seem super town and have some really useful and insightful reads on other players? Not being interested in either of those indicates a certain lack of interest in solving the game.

Or, ya know, laziness.

[frog]

Hi frog, glad to see an active player replaced in. ^_^

What do you think of GreyICE's push on Guilty Lion/JaeReed/BTD6?

What do you think of Clumsy Phoenix's later posts (as in, #83 onwards)? Also, why do you feel that reiterating that that any behavior one could do is scum is something that scum is more likely to do than town?

I can't get much out of GreyICE's push on Guilty Lion. It hardly lasts very long, and as far as I can tell the reason is Guilty Lion's few posts and the lack of substance. The same is true to some extent with the other pushes, but the vote on BTD6 makes sense in the context of earlier pressure on JaeReed, and the progression looks proactive and somewhat towny to me.

Clumsy Phoenix's posts after #83 exhibit much of the same behaviour as prior. There's some theoretical stuff around post #124, there's the constant assertions that they are town and the fatalism that whatever they do will be read as scummy (look to #140), they state some interest (for example, around you and Creature in #219) and proceed to do little to build on it. Post #252 does offer some promise, although a significant number of the questions aren't particularly illuminating, and I'm surprised on the lack of a read (or even vague comments) on their part on Dunnstral given that your interactions with him form part of their case on you. I don't like post #304, where supplementary reasons are just assumed to be scummy. As for the second part of the question, it's a needless, highly defensive statement that only attempts to cover up the consequences of any subsequent action by that player. I can appreciate why town might say that, but not if they keep saying it, not in circumstances where they are barely threatened, and certainly not once they've decided upon a course of action and then ended up not following through on it.

@Rory: as you might be aware, your recent posts aren't really contributing. Regarding Parama, unless you have eight or nine solid townreads, and three or two scumreads, you should probably be engaging with everybody. Regardless, I'd be interested to know who the 'other people' you're interested in right now are.

[thenewearth]

I am also down for a phoenix vote

Why do you scumread Phoenix?

He's been really passive more than a passive skill would be

He's been sheeping me and parama in a kitten vote. Provided, yeah sure they voted before me.

It only looks like There is a Bird vs. Cat fight but #86 was pretty much the only original "I think it was scummy" post. The rest is all about hydra stuff and agreeing with parama/dunn

He even null-town read parama on #252 and pulls a 270 degree on #362. As far as I notice the vote on kitten was based on what parama says but he still reads scum on both. Hao?

Don't even dare say "But they're a hydra". You're still playing against 1 person. If those heads are gonna be indecisive as a carry who doesn't know if he should farm or kill, then he's as unsure whether or not who's wagon is the better townlooking to mask that they're scum.

[thenewearth]

P.S.

In association with the assumption that Kitten is scum their bussing their partner and kitten is taking it.
Especially because #220 was a COMPLETE 180 from #218. Why?