Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[davesaz]

Tex, I skimmed Transcend's ISO and I'm not sure I see what you see. It just seems like post after post of meh. I don't like that he's sort of gliding along and giving mostly null reads without actually pushing any cases, but is this all you're talking about or is there something more?

That's a good characterization of the iso, but what do you think of it in terms of alignment?

[iraonavp]

A plain farmer, what is your read on Umlaut?

What's yours?

Slightly town-aligned. It's a weaker read than before actually when I look over again, I don't agree with some of what he's saying but I kind of like the way he says it.

I already said that anyway. I asked a plain farmer because I really didn't like the way that he was talking about Umlaut "tunneling". I think he noticed my trap and decided to call Umlaut town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

That is, "tunneling" assumes that Umlaut is town-aligned and he was phrasing it like it was suspicious on Umlaut's part.

In any case, why else would he bother to argue with him about it if it wasn't relevant to his alignment?

It's just poor white knighting of davesaz, and / or he realized why I was asking him that question.

And it's the same tone he was using when he was trying to convince me not to read LQ as town-aligned, a scum-aligned tone.

[Ranger]

What rules those out as options?

A combination of timing (who you push and when), and associations (what

they

say).

It's fully possible you'd be town. After all, I have four names I'm suspicious of, and only three can be on a team. It's just not the scenario I view as most likely at the moment.

It reads as newb for sure, but not specifically town newb.

Check iraon's game history.
Not a newb.

[Ümläüt]

Wait, what's your fourth scumread? I'd assume Tex based on the order of your last read list, but why?

[Smithereens]

It reads as newb for sure, but not specifically town newb.

Check iraon's game history.
Not a newb.

You appear to have a vested interest in his lynch :\

[texcat]

Tex, I skimmed Transcend's ISO and I'm not sure I see what you see. It just seems like post after post of meh. I don't like that he's sort of gliding along and giving mostly null reads without actually pushing any cases, but is this all you're talking about or is there something more?

That's it. Plus as I talked about before(629), he kept promising read lists, but never delivered. That's a big red flag for me. But he did have time to make post after post of meh.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 1.10

Ranger (0)-

LicketyQuickety (0)-

Iraonavp (3)-

a plain farmer, Ranger, Dunnstral

Smithereens (0)-

a plain farmer (3)-

Zachalstrika, Iraonavp, Transcend

Ümläüt (0)-

Bins (0)-

Riddleton (0)-

Dunnstral (2)-

Riddleton, davesaz

Zachstralkita (0)-

Transcend (2)-

texcat, Smithereens

davesaz (2)-

Ümläüt, LicketyQuickety

texcat (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Bins

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-06-30 14:00:00) - Jun 30th 19:00 GMT

Mod Notes

Riddleton

is being replaced

[Ümläüt]

That's it. Plus as I talked about before(629), he kept promising read lists, but never delivered. That's a big red flag for me. But he did have time to make post after post of meh.

I just looked at it again and realized how early his read list promises were. I expected to find that his promises came right before he stopped posting so much and started saying he was busy and felt disconnected from the game, which would be a lot more town-consistent. But actually there's a big block of time where he's making promises and then continuing to make fluff posts without actually delivering anything. This is genuinely suspicious and makes me lean scum on Transcend.

I'm not super confident in this read, because really all of his posts are pretty low-effort. I feel like if he was posting actual

stuff

but neglecting his promises, that would be scummier. But instead he's just posting nothing. This could mean he's trying to stay noncommittal but it could also mean he's just not trying very hard.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Transcend

We need to start thinking about wagons now and this is the only one I actually kinda like.

[Dunnstral]

Zach be less useless

[LicketyQuickety]

Someone who is not on the farmer lynch convince me to vote for them.

[Dunnstral]

If they're not on the lynch why would they convince other people to vote for him

[Zachstralkita]

Zach be less useless

ur voting town tho?

[Ümläüt]

Please explain how "choosing not to commit to long term memory everything I've read in the game" equates to scummy?
Lazy, I'm guilty of. Scummy, no.

This isn't about committing everything to long-term memory.

You said you didn't have any kind of up-to-date read on someone you were supposed to be keeping an eye on.

I give less weight to 372 for two reasons. One, I've seen LQ take things really literally before and so this wouldn't be abnormal, and two there is a pretty good percentage of people for whom challenging it on the setup comes more automatically than other kinds of challenges. That doesn't mean I put no faith in the tell, I just don't see it as strong as you do.

This is me having paid attention to something that LQ did, and giving an opinion on it.

That's actually fair.

-----

VOTE: iraonavp

I don't know if I really agree with LQ that we're under time pressure to pick a wagon just yet, but if that's the direction we're going I like Ira better than any of the others right now.

[Transcend]

I'm subbing out.

i am playing quite a few games and this one is one that I'm not really willing to devote attention to. Sorry guys. Just haven't felt this game at all.

[Dunnstral]

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: iraonavp

I don't know if I really agree with LQ that we're under time pressure to pick a wagon just yet, but if that's the direction we're going I like Ira better than any of the others right now.

It is utterly amazing when a simple comment like the one I made actually changes things. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, things change for the better.

Halfway through the day is when I think it is idea to start thinking about the 2 or 3 major BW that we want to have and discuss further. That's why I made that comment.

[Ranger]

Wait, what's your fourth scumread? I'd assume Tex based on the order of your last read list, but why?

texcat replaced Loopdan, who was incredibly scummy. Strike one.
Since then, texcat has continued to do basically nothing, and this runs contrary to the town-texcat I've become familiar with. Strike two.
Furthermore, texcat has bad interactions with LQ and iraonavp. Strike three.

You appear to have a vested interest in his lynch :\

Indeed I do! It's called "lynching scum". You should try it some time, you certainly aren't on Transcend!

[iraonavp]

Ranger is voting me instead of LQ, even though LQ supposedly scumclaimed (he actually didn't). This is because I called Ranger scum-aligned, she wants me dead because I will expose her as scum-aligned while I'm alive.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: iraonavp

I don't know if I really agree with LQ that we're under time pressure to pick a wagon just yet, but if that's the direction we're going I like Ira better than any of the others right now.

That's terrible, I'm town-aligned and you shouldn't vote me just because of timings. In any case, who would you lynch instead of me if you had your choice?

[iraonavp]

Wait, what's your fourth scumread? I'd assume Tex based on the order of your last read list, but why?

texcat replaced Loopdan, who was incredibly scummy. Strike one.
Since then, texcat has continued to do basically nothing, and this runs contrary to the town-texcat I've become familiar with. Strike two.
Furthermore, texcat has bad interactions with LQ and iraonavp. Strike three.

Loopdan wasn't suspicious at all, and neither is texcat.

You are literally reading him as scum-aligned for "bad interactions" with two town-aligned players, that's complete bullshit.

[davesaz]

Ranger is voting me instead of LQ, even though LQ supposedly scumclaimed (he actually didn't). This is because I called Ranger scum-aligned, she wants me dead because I will expose her as scum-aligned while I'm alive.

An interesting theory, but what are you basing this on? Can you show her only scum reading you after you scum read her?

[iraonavp]

Someone who is not on the farmer lynch convince me to vote for them.

UNVOTE: a plain farmer

While I'm not voting a plain farmer myself, he is an excellent vote.

A plain farmer's response to LQ's supposed scumslip was very scum-aligned. He acknowledged that it was a scumslip, yet maintained that "Scumslips are usually just townie brain farts". He never gives a clear read on LQ. His response indicates that he knows that LQ is town-aligned, yet still doesn't want to miss an opportunity to make him look bad, or vote him if the tide turned against him.

His tone is extremely conciliatory because he is talking from a position of weakness, he knows he's in the minority. He tried to convince me to read LQ as scum-aligned, when he was reading me as scum-aligned too. This shows that he knows I'm town-aligned, and that his scum-aligned reads are fake.

He repeatedly and awkwardly asks why people are reading him as scum-aligned, rather than trying to find the scum-aligned players. His goal this game is to avoid getting lynched. He wants something concrete that he can use logic to fight against, because he wants an escape route. In contrast, it doesn't bother me that people are voting me for no reason, only that people are voting me.

In fact, I've convinced myself! I think I'll vote a plain farmer now, and I encourage you to do the same.

VOTE: a plain farmer

It reads as newb for sure, but not specifically town newb.

Check iraon's game history.
Not a newb.

You appear to have a vested interest in his lynch :\

There's not even any town-aligned reason to post it, I already said as much. Ranger just wants to make it look like more reasons to call me scum-aligned, so the wagon doesn't lose momentum (since it was starting to before).

[iraonavp]

Ranger is voting me instead of LQ, even though LQ supposedly scumclaimed (he actually didn't). This is because I called Ranger scum-aligned, she wants me dead because I will expose her as scum-aligned while I'm alive.

An interesting theory, but what are you basing this on? Can you show her only scum reading you after you scum read her?

Unfortunately I can't. I replaced into the game around the same time that I read Ranger as scum-aligned. She was reading Kappy as about null-aligned before, and moved me down near to the bottom of the list. So there's no way to distinguish between changing her perspective because I accused her, and changing her perspective because I acted differently to Kappy.