New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Killthestory]

The Nero wagon is stupid and Lazy. When I flip town make sure Slandaar and Performer are dead.

Neither of them are scum.

[Nero Cain]

oh and Hebi too.

[Nero Cain]

Yea they are, I don't believe Perfs backup claim at all and Slandaar has to be intentionally no killing to be town.

[Nero Cain]

like the fact that I'm the sole wagon and there is no traction else should tell you guys that you the scum are more than cobfertable with my wagon; I'm a mislynch.

Also when you brought up fact Slan could be a ninja perf was like "yea ok, that makes sense" this is him setting up for my town flip.

[hebichan]

oh and Hebi too.

Why me? I'm still voting fire. Cause he's scum.

[Killthestory]

Perf never said that?

[Nero Cain]

You keep quick hammering people.

What do you think of the wagon on me?

[hebichan]

You keep quick hammering people.

What do you think of the wagon on me?

The first one was a mistake, it wasn't even supposed to be a hammer for the last fucking time.

The second one, yeah I admit I quickhammered, but its not like he talked for his entire time being here.

[Nero Cain]

I guess I kinda misread a little but he did say

KTS you're saying he has something like a Ninja ability??

Still, I'm town and the fact that Slan is no killing while my slot has been targeting is what made me believe he's scum. The only other option is that he's intentionally no killing.

[Slandaar]

the fact that Slan is no killing while my slot has been targeting is what made me believe he's scum.

I can confirm that I haven't been killing anyone during the night.

(Sorry been busy promise I will catch up tomorrow)

[Slandaar]

Tbh I don't think KTS's reads are very good. KAAG's posts were very clearly town, and I think his lack of interactions with Ozgin/Fragger looks good for him when you consider how good Ozgin and Fragger were at distancing with each other.

Which of KAAG's posts were 'very clearly town'?

Slandaar's pushing on Ozgin and Fragger is exactly what I would expect from their partner.

Could you explain how your push on Fragger is not 'exactly what you would expect from his partner'?

Anyways

I'm a VT obviously.

Nero claims next.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler: quotes

Slandaar,

What reason is there not to have an RVS vote on when it's 11 to lynch?

The point is: I see nothing wrong with unvoting when the vote is pointless. That said you didn't answer the question; What reason is there to have an RVS vote at the point he unvoted? (when it clearly achieved nothing).

I don't mind the unvoting so much, but there were plenty of possible people who could have taken a vote. Pick a reason and commit. I think people should take positions early so they can be challenged on them. Town's job is to use their vote to sort.

Reactions to RVS votes, and the way the RVS reasons are phrased, is the way I see most games move into the proper nitty-gritty. How would you move the game forward, if you disagree?

Do I disagree that most games start with RVS? no.

RVS was short in this game. Jam effectively ended it with his post which did not contain a vote amusingly.

What has this got to do with anything?

I don't even remotely agree Jam ended it at that point. In no scenario is RVS over when multiple people haven't even posted.

When will you commit to a single read? Here's two for you from me:

Golden Robster: town-lean, doesn't care how he comes across, posting what he darn well chooses
Ness: scum-lean, way too defensive, quotes back the weakest attacks and picks at them

Your turn.

Drixx, although "Both" is also very possible.

Fragger is defensive, but Drixx is defensive and dismissive. I don't quite understand why he brings up some past game where he happened to be town to draw comparisons from either.

The interaction between him and Firebringer was weird too: looked like possible scum-theater.

The only real push Fragger has made is on someone I feel is likely town (iraonavp). There's "bad" reads and then their are "inexplicable" reads. It's kind of inexplicable. Also Fragger apparently liked Drixx on D1, and has reiterated that on D2. As I find that extra inexplicable...maybe I should in fact revise my original answer to simply "Both".

aris is so hard to read

Agreed.

Anyone else finding Oz hard to read?

His cases seem convoluted & constipated on first impression , much like Keyser Soze's cases – on d1. Later he had an outrageously hard-to-read 1258 wall on d2 that moved me to place him at null. His 20 was an unsubstantial post, 252 was way brief, 560+561+720+1051+1168+1368+1461+1599+1717 = fluff posts.

He posts some fluff, but if you're ill, you're ill: I'd rather he let us know there's a reason for him not posting much. I didn't have a problem with 1258 really: I essentially agree with his ISO analysis on KTS. Overall, I don't find him super suspicious: there's 3 or 4 others I'd go for first.

FINALLY a day phase that starts on a weekend. I'm still somewhat angry about the game being reopened after over 2 hours. 4 mods...come on! People are busy and for me, weekdays mean I may resort largely to phone posting, which takes away a big chunk of my play . Anyway.

Snark's fake claim was indeed odd but the fact that ira & Something added votes on him after a PR claim - that is very disturbing. Adding that to my notes. When someone claims PR, even if they're lying - that can be dealt with as the game went on. I wish I was here during the final moments because I would've seriously unvoted and moved it back to Aris, who accumulated more votes near the end.

When S_S voted, there were minutes to deadline:

There are

SEVENTEEN

minutes until deadline.

Even if you were online, there wouldn't have been any hope of getting the lynch changed. I will be looking at those who started the wagon or jumped on easily: iraonavp and S_S are the two I least suspect on that wagon.

Let's start here: VOTE: Firebringer


PEdit: LOL, nice. Why?

@KAAG

Here's the issue I have with your argument.

Something_Smart, Ozgin, Slandaar = town
iraonavp, killthestory, Performer = prob!town
Guy/Replace, Yume, Kuroi, ilikebugs, DGB = unclear
Aristo, Frag = scummy
Drixx, FB = scum

Those are your most updated reads from your 1935

In the world where you think I'm mafia, alongside Drixx & Fire means you believe I as mafia would hard defend my partner Drixx throughout day one, day two & day three openly. It also means you believe I would hard defend Fire late day two, call him a PR which I read him as & then continue to express my belief that Fire is a PR & defend them into day three. Which is implausible & extremely dumb if I was actually mafia, which I'm not.

I find the fact you think you hard-defended Drixx laughable to the max. Two sentences saying he's vaguely towny?

Regarding FB:

Also there's no world in the world of ever that Fire is scum, based on his interaction with Aristo I mentioned earlier.

This is the only reference to FB you made late on D2 that I could see. Are you saying I should read this as you reading him as a PR?

OK. You're scum.

UNVOTE: Firebringer
VOTE: Fraggernaut

KAAG, what are your thoughts on DGB recently? Is she still "unclear"?

I think that making a scum list that contains two dead players is probably town. Scum would be more careful.

As for the second question: my push was substantiated and actually contributed to the wagon. You had him as a scumread but never showed much interest in wagoning him and you switched off him for a weak reason after the claim.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Nero Cain

Lets do this.

[Performer]

Based on the flips , amount of kills per night, and the special qualities of my dual role, I see that it is impossible to justify Nero being a 6th Town PR.
We've had pk the multi-role, a Town Ascetic Enabler, Town Tracker, the 3-shot Vigilante, and me the Backup Tracker & (not the best time to reveal).
5 PRs, 3 scum, 1 SK , the rest VTs. Nero's soft claim is not justified in this setup; in other words, he is lying.
Initially I wanted to vote SS after his reads list including Rach & Sland, Fire & Heb - then Nero came out with a hard vote and highly questionable posts regarding Sland's flip confirming Nero as town. So, Nero, then SS next tonight.

Other notes: I still believe the remaining folks like Slandaar with the rest, to be town. And I am reaffirming the plan with KTS shooting SS . I plan on tracking someone tonight, and I want the target to be kept a secret for our best interest. Although I appreciate suggestions, please do not suggest any track targets.

Why am I planning ahead ? I 've been in too many games and seen too many twists, and this game has been very upsetting several times. I will continue to try my best. I want us to feel like our contributions meant something, and that we learned things in this game. Please everyone, consolidate your votes on Nero.

Will possibly follow-up on other matters tomorrow if they're important enough, but my vote stays.

[hebichan]

VOTE: nero cain

This is a good enough reason to leave the fire wagon.

[Something_Smart]

^this is a scum vote

I'm not consolidating anything. This wagon has all the signs of being a town wagon, the biggest being that everyone wants to lynch someone else a little more but is willing to compromise. I've never seen one of those wagons hit scum.

Tbh whoever's scum (hebi and Slandaar, probably) deserves to win a heck of a lot more than town does. *sigh* I'm definitely not signing up for another large, this was way too much effort and is way too disappointing.

[Axl_Rose]

VC 6.01

Killthestory (0)-

Performer (0)-

hebichan (0)-

Firebringer (1)-

Rachmarie

Rachmarie (0)-

Slandaar (0)-

Nero Cain

Nero Cain (4)-

Killthestory, Performer Firebringer, hebichan

(L-1)

Something_Smart (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Slandaar, Something_Smart

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-07-05 20:00:00) - Jul 5th 19:00 GMT

[RachMarie]

Heb Why did you abandon the Fire wagon? I think Nero is most likely town.

[RachMarie]

Nero is at L-1 folks let him claim before you hammer.

[hebichan]

Heb Why did you abandon the Fire wagon? I think Nero is most likely town.

I just felt bad about his actions the past few days. Plus I don't want to be the hammer again, and I do feel like we at least need a claim from the slot.

[RachMarie]

Would you then unvote Nero long enough for him to claim then? Not sure why Perf thinks he has claimed I have not seen it yet. I saw Slan claim then ask for Nero to claim.

[hebichan]

Would you then unvote Nero long enough for him to claim then? Not sure why Perf thinks he has claimed I have not seen it yet. I saw Slan claim then ask for Nero to claim.

Eh fine, I still think its a good slot to vote on though.

UNVOTE:

[RachMarie]

thanks that way there is no quickhammers til we have a real claim.

[Killthestory]

^this is a scum vote

I'm not consolidating anything. This wagon has all the signs of being a town wagon, the biggest being that everyone wants to lynch someone else a little more but is willing to compromise. I've never seen one of those wagons hit scum.

Tbh whoever's scum (hebi and Slandaar, probably) deserves to win a heck of a lot more than town does. *sigh* I'm definitely not signing up for another large, this was way too much effort and is way too disappointing.

Why do you play to win? That just causes disappointment. I don't play to win. I don't play to lose either. I just play to play, to better myself. To be the best I can be, and to have fun.

Why do you choose to play?

[Nero Cain]

Its pretty obvious what I am. I'm the town jail keeper. The Slandaar slot has been blocked two nights in a row with no second kill. So obviously I thought I had been blocking a kill. Weather he's the SK or the mafia..idk.

Like I said earlier, it should be obvious that this is a town wagon given that there is NO resistance like at all. Well SS and Rach are town reading me I guess so 2 out of 4? And that's ignoring the fact scum Hedi quickly hopped on me after avoiding the question of what she thought of my wagon.

Like Perfs claim of backup tracker, besides the fact that I don't believe it, and his claim of targeting Slandaar and seeing him go nowhere is not the CC type thing he thinks it it. Like roleblockers are not told what their action did. So for me to see that there is no kill like why would I not think he's been blocked?

@Perf why should I have not believed that I blocked a kill?

And the KTS stuff makes little sense to me as well.Like he's essentially voting me for not voting Hebi but why would I vote Hebi overr someone I had a quasi guilty on? His thing about it being mylo/lylo today and not willing to trust my claim is either a pretty big math fail or just unwilling to admit a mistake. I think he's kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth about Slandaar. Like he's town reading him BUT thinks he could be the SK. Like when I flip it'll mean that I'm not lying about my role or actions so there's gonna be alot of pressure on Slan tomorrow so this gives him the flexibility to switch to Slandaar the next day.

False positives are a thing so its not impossible that I have one on Slandaar. There's also a TON of scum motivation to want to get rid of a a blocking role. I think that if Slandaar is not scum then atlest one of KTS/Performer

HAVE

to be scum. Like Hebi is almost assurdly scum and Fire is a p good bet but even if they flip scum that's only 2 so a third has to be in KTS/Slandaar/Performer.