Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

Prod dodge

ಠ_ಠ

[Nashville Dreams]

Like I said, I want you to talk. I am going to prod dodge til you are ready.

Prod dodge.

[Titus]

Like I said, I want you to talk. I am going to prod dodge til you are ready.

Prod dodge.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright. I will keep to my timetable.

[Smithereens]

@Zach, there's no wagon on Bins, and it's dave that we need to hear from.

@RC, Transcend posting in the signups.

[RadiantCowbells]

Excluding confirmed alignments from now on. I just figured out Dunn was dead. I am bad.

Page 6:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins}
Null: {APF}
Leanscum: {Transcend, Loopdan}
Mid+Scum: {LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

Oi, Davesaz. Why does the time into the day make something less scummy?

Page 7:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins, Ranger}
Null: {APF}
Leanscum: {Transcend, Loopdan}
Mid+Scum: {LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

Tentative townlean on Ranger. I can understand her reads, nothing contrasts with what I'm thinking.

Page 8:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins, Ranger, Umlaut}
Null: {APF}
Leanscum: {Transcend, Loopdan}
Mid+Scum: {LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

Page 9:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins, Ranger, Umlaut}
Null: {APF, Loopdan}
Mid+Scum: {Transcend, LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

So many questions I want to ask Transcend rn.

Page 10:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins, Ranger, Umlaut}
Null: {APF, Loopdan}
Mid+Scum: {Transcend, LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

Reads unchanged.

Both Transcend <-> LQ and Transcend <-> Smithereens feel like they could easily be scum-scum interactions.
I'm not especially impressed by the Transcend <-> Bins interactions making Transcend town either.

Done for the night.

[RadiantCowbells]

To clarify, just = after the readslist 1-5 was done.

[Smithereens]

Is this like a chronological diary of your feelings about the other players? Cuz I'm curious to know
>Why Bins is a town read.
>Why Dave is a town read.

Not sure why I stand out as scum to you either, but I'll assume you didn't like how rude I've been to your town reads

[Ranger]

Ranger, why did you ignore my change of read on ira?

I'm pretty sure I didn't, and instead said something to the effect of, "No, Dunn, come back!"

[Ranger]

I don't see another train happening like the ira one at this point so: VOTE: ira

^This was a scum vote, by the way.
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Hey Ranger, who should WE lynch?

All of {Umlaut, texcat, LicketyQuickety}.

I meant it yesterday. Obviously, with four names it was near-impossible for literally all of them to be scum. So I knew I was likely wrong about one. I see nothing in the flips that makes me thing I was wrong on the others.

[Ranger]

I didn't even think Dunn was THAT town in comparison to others by the end of the day : /

And that is why you aren't scum.

Dunnstral was painfully obvious town.

[Titus]

VOTE: texcat

Would rather do this one.

[texcat]

Ranger, I thought your Umlaut scum read was mostly based on Ira being scum. Do you still think Umlaut is scum?

[texcat]

VOTE: Titus
I was hoping that if you were town, you'd rectify my scum read on Transcend. I don't see that happening.

[Titus]

Hahaha. Omgus. No reasons for me being scummy, just tunnel. Ok.

What are your reads Texcat? Particularly Ranger

[texcat]

Not OMGUS. My vote was on you yesterday. I think I spelled out my reasons for Transcend being scummy. You haven't done anything to make me change my mind.

Ranger's read list is upside down from mine. I know she's wrong about me and Ira. I suspect she's wrong on Umlaut and LQ. I'm just not sure that Ranger being wrong means that Ranger is scummy. But I'm leaning that way.

[Titus]

If you're leaning Ranger as scummy, why aren't you sorting her with the golden opportunity the IC has given you? I mean it's pretty obviously not scum driven.

[Ümläüt]

Reading over Ranger's ISO because a bunch of people are voting her but I haven't seen a case of any kind yet, and to me there are a couple of things that seem inconsistent with being scum.

First of all, she's just put so much weight on her four big scumreads and doesn't even seem to think anyone should need convincing on them. Even after yesterday's flip she just says, "Okay, I guess scum is in the remaining three." I suppose scum could fake that attitude but it's just not as likely as town having it genuinely. And meanwhile she says this about LQ:

As scum, LicketyQuickety thrives, absolutely thrives in town assuming this. He will throw bad reads around, make a lot of noise, and people will basically go, "terrible" but also "not scum", allowing him to push an incredibly pro-scum agenda and get away with it.

If she's scum this is basically what she's doing, so it would be a big gamble to bring this to people's attention as a thing that people can do.

Secondly, on D1 she was making reads based on the assumption that Ira was scum:

Umlaut sees LQ's play, and recognizes that it may or may not be good enough to survive, so he takes the stance that LQ may or may not be scum: waiting to see which way he needs to go.
Umlaut sees iraonavp's hilariously terrible play, and recognizes that it will expose the whole scumteam if left unchecked. He makes an initial effort to try and limit this, but when iraonavp continues to make a bunch of moves that Umlaut sees as bad, he does the only smart move as scum: cut his losses and in no uncertain terms leave iraonavp out to be shredded by wolves.

At the time I thought "If Ranger is scum, she's saying this to set me up for a wagon the next day," because there is no reason for her to to set up an argument of form "If A is scum, then B is scum" if she already knows A is town.

(I am a bit confused about why she's

still

scumreading me since this is basically the only reason she's given out loud, but I'm pretty sure she had me as an unexplained scumread before that so it's not inconsistent, just weird.)

I think her calling out LQ's vote on Ira was also based on the assumption that Ira is scum, but she didn't really explain what specifically was scummy about it. Hey Ranger, why specifically was LQ's vote scummy? (I didn't like much it either but I want to see what you say.)

I guess neither of these things is inconsistent with SK, but (1) we don't even know whether there is an SK, and (2) I haven't actually seen anything I'd call scummy from her in the first place.

[Ümläüt]

Read through texcat's ISO and I don't see anything scummy there at all. I don't remember ever seeing a coherent case on her or even anything actually suspicious being pointed out. Someone explain this to me.

[davesaz]

Scummy can also be lack of townie. Lack of conviction, lack of scumhunting activity, narrow focus of interaction or avoidance of certain players, etc. I would need to reread to tell you if texcat matches this pattern...

Ranger matches the pattern of someone who could be scum confidently pushing cases, knowing they are wrong, but also knowing that they can manipulate certain members of town to follow them. It is very difficult to sort this pattern from someone who is town and confident and trying to lead.

Spoiler: for those who always see scum in the shadows

I match the pattern of someone who doesn't know what people's alignments are yet. Not the pattern of someone who doesn't want to decide until they see what town thinks.

[Titus]

Great Dave. Nice theory speech. Take a stand.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't see another train happening like the ira one at this point so: VOTE: ira

^This was a scum vote, by the way.
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Hey Ranger, who should WE lynch?

All of {Umlaut, texcat, LicketyQuickety}.

I meant it yesterday. Obviously, with four names it was near-impossible for literally all of them to be scum. So I knew I was likely wrong about one. I see nothing in the flips that makes me thing I was wrong on the others.

This is full of no.

LQ is gonna be town so you're wrong twice. AND NO ONE'S GONNA SCRUTINIZE YOU FOR IT.

[Zachstralkita]

also @umlaut on my texcat read, it's just a lack of solid content tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Ranger, thoughts on me so far?

[RadiantCowbells]

Page 11:

LeanTown: {Davesaz, Bins, Ranger}
Null: {APF, Loopdan, Umlaut}
Mid+Scum: {Transcend, LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

Not sure I like Umlaut on this page but I really hate the Transcend <-> LQ interactions on this page.

Page 12:

LeanTown: {APF, Davesaz, Bins, Ranger}
Null: {Loopdan, Umlaut}
Mid+Scum: {Transcend, LQ}
Scummy: {Smithereens}

APF starting to seem reasonably likely to be town. Am OK with them so far.

Page 13:

LeanTown: {APF, Davesaz, Bins, Ranger}
Null: {Loopdan, Umlaut}
Mid+Scum: {Transcend}
Scummy: {Smithereens, LQ}

Eh. Definitely gonna call LQ/Smither the 2 top scum picks. Reasonably OK with voting LQ as of now on the condition that town lynches the fuck out of Smither following a scumflip.
Aka, don't ignore my reads if I die.

BTW, I don't care if my reasons for Scum reading someone are wrong. I do that all the time and am known for it on my home site.

The fuck is this? HI I DONT CARE IF MY READS ARE SHIT I HAVE SHIT READS ALL THE TIME. Who advertises that as town? Like holy Amoline mother of Annie.

Page 14:

LeanTown: {APF, Davesaz, Bins, Ranger}
Null: {Loopdan, Umlaut}
Mid++Scum: {Transcend}
Scummy: {Smithereens, LQ}

You say rangers list is legit.. what's legit about it?

YOU CHANGE THAT TOPIC!

LQ your vote on Bins was fucking awful, but who am I to dictate your game right???????????

HEY IMA CALL YOU SCUM BUT DO NOTHIN ABOUT IT. YEAH BRUH WE GUD HERE. ALL GOOOOOOOD

Page 15:

Towny + I Want To Believe: {Ranger}
LeanTown: {APF, Davesaz, Bins}
Null: {Loopdan, Umlaut}
Mid++Scum: {Transcend}
Scummy: {Smithereens, LQ}

As scum, LicketyQuickety thrives, absolutely thrives in town assuming this. He will throw bad reads around, make a lot of noise, and people will basically go, "terrible" but also "not scum", allowing him to push an incredibly pro-scum agenda and get away with it.

haha destroyed.

Ranger, we need to talk about why you're townreading Transcend and Smithereens as of this point. Neither of them belong in your top townreads.
I'm not going to post my continued catchup until I get a response.