Newbie 1723 - Game Over!

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #3

Vecna (0) -
e_is_cool (2) - Earth, Franky
Harry (2) - Rb, Vecna
Skold (0) -
Franky (0) -
rb (0) -
Parabola (0) -
Earth (1) - Parabola
Nacho (1) - Skold
Not Voting (3) - Harry, Nacho, e_is_cool

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline

Day 1 ends on July 16, 2016 9:30 PM EST DST+1 or in (expired on 2016-07-16 21:30:00).

Mod Notes

Mod will be V/LA from 7/10 to 7/18 and 7/25 to 7/29.
I will not accept votes based off avatars (mainly because I have them turned off.)

[Skold]

11, 28 are good examples. It's just logical in a pro-town way.

[Skold]

doesn't babble, gets to the point

I've never seen scum speak plainly as this. I just haven't seen it from scum because when everyone speaks openly and plainly the game is clearer and it's easier to scumhunt. The goal of scum is obfuscation, the opposite is clarity.

[Dirty Harry2]

At least skold seems town

Please catch-up from page 1.
You have pending questions.
Then, finally explain your town read of Skold.

Stop this Franky it's very stupid.

I did not like this.
Pressure is pressure.
I do not sense town-paranoia in this "stop" mentality.
Did I misunderstand that post? Are you asking Franky to drop his logic/argument?

I did like your Nachomamma8 observation:

but all criticism seems to come from an IC perspective rather than a scumhunt perspective and even any scumhunting I've seen and doesn't have anything backing it up.

I would not describe Nachomamma8's play to the high degree of "Hella scummy" - but his 'safe' status is concerning.
Is Nachomamma8 actively trying to sort players and solve the game?
I want to see him get his hands dirty.
I think we deserve a catch-up from him.

[Skold]

Did I misunderstand that post? Are you asking Franky to drop his logic/argument?

His specific tells aren't practical and are generally circular. He seems to think e_is_cool is trying to paint him poorly but nothing in his ISO suggests that. So yes, yes I am.

[Skold]

Harry you seem to have at least two people you aren't quite sure on - myself and Nacho. Why do you hold onto your vote?

[Franky]

I'm

not being uncivil

and

this push is stupid

.

I'll just let you figure out what you're missing on your own. Not worth the time.

Can't say e's last response is any better either. Seems like scum grasping at straws.

That last post is terrible. If I were to be pushing e_is_cool this post would be a rock as well as the three I pointed out. However I'm not pushing e_is_cool and the people who are active need to get on Nacho.

This here makes me think your "stop it" comment is bollocks, because pressuring someone you think is looking scummy shouldn't disagree with you.

Though you make a good point on Nacho, and as far as I can tell Parabola needs to show some activity too. I'll also need this question answered:

@Nacho: what do you think of parabola so far?

[Errantparabola]

I actually really dig Franky's switch to e, timing and mindset-wise
I won't follow but I like it

skold your name seemed familiar to me
turns out you were in my newbie game
so ain't that cool

Because he is. It's not like not posting where he isn't posting, Nacho is posting frequently and doesn't say much.

I know what you mean and I also want followup from nacho but I don't actually think nacho is scum

the people who are active need to get on Nacho.

Can't get followup from nacho without wagoning him?

There's a few players in this game that seem surface-town but only on the surface, remind me to tell you them at some point
And that COULD be an indicator of people being scum, I think

Call this a dumb opinion, but I think a lot of people underestimate people's ability to play scum. Say someone does a thing and people say "oh hey, this this is obvious scum" but from my observation, it could just as easily be town that doesn't watch themselves than scum that lets something slip through the cracks.

I've found decent success with incorporating the idea that people that look town on the surface but in reality come from a scum mindset into the way i scumhunt. It think it helps with finding the scum that are less obvious, and there are some of those in most games, you know?

[Franky]

There's a few players in this game that seem surface-town but only on the surface, remind me to tell you them at some point

How about now?

[Franky]

Wait wait wait, did Rb and Vecna just start a wagon on Harry for no apparent reason as their first action?

[rb]

At least skold seems town

I've got a problem with this post.

What has Skold done that scum couldn't easily do? He's mostly just critiquing people's play. But as the most active and seemingly perceptive player, he'd be a great sheep target right now if he was town.

So why does he look town to you?

@Franky, yes.

[rb]

Problems with Skold:

1. Cutting off other people's lines of inquiry, even though he's simultaneously calling for more scumhunting from people. Putting people in a feedback loop doesn't help Town.
2. To his point on Nacho, he's not saying much. He's debating the finer points of other people's logic but I don't see him doing anything that would make him Town.
3. Says that we shouldn't have strong reads, calls Nacho hella scummy. I don't really buy his reasoning on why because I see a lot of IC's play that way.
4. Very quick to TR Dirty Harry after he gets 2 quick votes. Looking for towncred if he ends up lynched maybe?

UNVOTE: Dirty Harry

VOTE: Skold

[Skold]

Can't get followup from nacho without wagoning him?

Problem isn't the lack of posting, the problem is the lack of content within said posts.

[rb]

Please cite what you're considering lack of content.

[e_is_cool]

I don't think town should invest time into defending themselves heavily unless the current wagon is likely to lead to a lynch. And e_is_cool thinking you're scum isn't a scumtell. Stop this Franky it's very stupid.
And e_is_cool what the hell even is 112? Show me where a scum has said this or it's not a scumtell? There are 1700ish completed games in Newbie forums. I'm sure if I dig through enough things scum has said I can make literally anything is a scumtell. That's terrible criteria and a terrible defence. And I really don't see the point in defending against a terrible argument that won't hold.

UpgradingFOS: e_is_cool

Still on that Nacho thing or I would just vote you for feeling the need to defend against that argument.

I don't get how me saying "It's because of my meta, not my alignment." is a scumtell. It's only a scumtell if (in general) scum do it and town don't. So, could you show me examples where scum did this?

[rb]

Lol this isn't the fkn high court, gtfo with this already. With the number of mafia games on the internet, you could find examples of scum doing this but that isn't the point.

Thing is that I agree: It's not necessarily a scumtell. What it is though is just a really lazy way to avoid legit questioning on your inconsistencies and/or scummy play.

If you're going to persist with the meta shit, I'm switching vote to you. If you're scum, you're getting away with it by making a meta argument.

If you're Town, you're turning the Town in circles chasing down stupid examples instead of scumhunting, while simultaneously doing nothing to improve your own clarity.

[Errantparabola]

There's a few players in this game that seem surface-town but only on the surface, remind me to tell you them at some point

How about now?

I think it might be pretty cool if new players in this game get exposed to different styles of play.

A lot of people on this site, they see something and they go for it, they pressure hard. Sure, great, works for them.
Very recently I've sort of moved away from that. I think pressuring and calling for deaths has a time and a place, and right now doesn't feel like the time.
I'm trying out a "cards close to my chest" strategy and I want to see how it works.

I think there's something that seems like a misunderstanding between Skold and e but I don't think it actually is.
e, I will say that I agree with Skold in that it's a terrible defense, but I'll disagree and say that it's not a scummy one
Tying back into my belief that a majority of scum are capable of playing at a semi-competent level, I find it hard-pressed to believe that there is behavior that scum consistently exhibits that town doesn't. Context and intent are key.

Can't get followup from nacho without wagoning him?

Problem isn't the lack of posting, the problem is the lack of content within said posts.

I remember you saying you wanted a followup from Nacho and I also want this

[Errantparabola]

rb
i like you

[Franky]

A lot of people on this site, they see something and they go for it, they pressure hard. Sure, great, works for them.
Very recently I've sort of moved away from that. I think pressuring and calling for deaths has a time and a place, and right now doesn't feel like the time.
I'm trying out a "cards close to my chest" strategy and I want to see how it works.

I'm not asking for "pressuring and calling for deaths". I'm asking for reads. Keeping your cards close to your chest will waste town time. I don't think we should play day 1 like we can afford even one mislynch, especially since we have no idea which PRs we have. You never know, other townies with much less experience could use your reads in a more efficient way.

Not to mention that by keeping your cards close to your chest you're crippling our ability to scumhunt you, and by consequence our ability to trust you.

[Skold]

139 e_is_cool is bad.
140 rb is okay
141 errant is awful regarding keeping his cards to himself but okay regarding the theory stuff.

FOS: Errant

- share with the town.
143 - Franky is good
Nacho posts that have any content at all are 31 32 and 76 and are mostly theory and easy to answer questions. In 31 he discusses RQS in 32 he discusses scumhunting techniques and in 76 (when the discussion has matured beyond this) he discusses RQS vs RVS. He hasn't contributed to the game despite being active.

[e_is_cool]

Lol this isn't the fkn high court, gtfo with this already. With the number of mafia games on the internet, you could find examples of scum doing this but that isn't the point.

Thing is that I agree: It's not necessarily a scumtell. What it is though is just a really lazy way to avoid legit questioning on your inconsistencies and/or scummy play.

If you're going to persist with the meta shit, I'm switching vote to you. If you're scum, you're getting away with it by making a meta argument.

If you're Town, you're turning the Town in circles chasing down stupid examples instead of scumhunting, while simultaneously doing nothing to improve your own clarity.

If you say I'm getting away with it, how is that when the majority (or close) of the people has a vote or FoS on me? How am I avoiding questioning? (If I missed the question, could you requote it?)

[e_is_cool]

I decided the use the search feature and find some posts that were similar.

Titus has nothing to do with this game. RC's signature says he's a alt of Titus (another member on this forum). Some people read into that meta, but it's a lie so there's no meta to read into.

NAI is "not alignment indicative".

Posted by town.

If by lighter you meant "not taking on polarizing issues" then yeah. I suppose I was playing in the dandelions, while others were pulling weeds, at that point. Its admitly a bad quark of mine to be neutral longer then other people. I wouldn't say its alignment indicative of me since that's how I typically am at the start of D1.

Another townie posted this.

Except that you and Jaereed and Singer are all fully aware that I do the exact same thing as scum.

You can't cherry pick my meta when you know full well that it's not alignment indicatives. Or should I pull up a quote wall of me pushing on you in 570?

And yet another townie.

So, I don't get how this (saying "meta not alignment") is scummy. Also, this isn't cherry-picked, I just searched up "meta +not alignment" and picked the first 3 that were closest to what I was saying.

[Vecna]

Vecna you get a maximum of one more sheep noises post before you say why you're a sheep.

Beeeh?

Mweèeeeeeehhehhehhehe^beeh.

Mebeheheh beaaahbaaaaaaaghr!

[Vecna]

Vecna has clearly been polymorphed by a powerful wizard.

RIP Vecna

B-b-b-beeeeeeeh

[Vecna]

And Dirty Harry is town because he doesn't babble, gets to the point and is making sensible conclusions. Look at his ISO, you'll probably agree.

"doesn't babble, gets to the point"
Null on this.

"sensible".
This intrigued me.
It is strange only you see this.
Others have described my posts as "very neutral".
The votes also indicative they find them scummy/suspicious.
However, you find them "sensible conclusions" - which observations/reads of mine do you think are "sensible"?

Meehebeeehblabehbla