Newbie 1724 ~ Endgame

[Zyf]

A combination of the disinvolved attitude, the way he gave reads upon request (but not beforehand) in a way that rang as disingenuous to me on ISO reading it, and what I said already -- "gut."

Hrm
After that interaction I think I'll place LQ comfortably in Null.

personally I find null a bit uncomfortable

...?
How is null uncomfortable?

[Thor665]

So how exactly is that a misrep?

I have explicitly described the misrep - you even, functionally, expressed awareness of it.

1. You appear to grasp that what I was doing was discussing theory.
2. What LQ accused me of - was making a town case on myself.

That is the misrep.

Also I can't follow this argument. at all. ;___;

It's a pretty straight forward argument if you cut out the emotions LQ is tossing.

I dinged him for misrepping me.
I called him scummy because he claimed that he started splitting hairs in defense of himself in order to scumhunt me (and, I'll note - has produced zero reads from doing so)

He claims he didn't misrep me because *Thor said the word town and his own name thus suggesting wanting to connect them!* - serious, that's what he has claimed most recently.
He has defended his splitting hairs thing by claiming he does that elsewhere - and I've claimed I have found no evidence of that in looking over his games and asked him to maybe show me one instance - he has not managed that.

Also, as a tertiary, late thing, I have claimed that his meta here does not match up with his town meta in other games, and is much more AtE loaded here than elsewhere.

That's the argument in a nutshell.
Do you follow it now?

i'm gonna have to agree with lickety here.

What parts do you agree with him on?

[Thor665]

So you think its a misrep when I say you are pointing out that you are Town telling... when you are in fact doing that? The fact that that was not your point does not hold any bearing whether you were doing it or not.

Yes it does.

How about this: why is it a misrep? I'm not sure I understand that. Feel free to be as detailed with this as possible.

When the entire conversation was 'here is why the tell you are using isn't an alignment tell and here are examples to show it's not a valid alignment tell' and you come back with 'Thor is arguing it's a valid alignment tell that shows him as town' that is the definition of twisting my words and claiming I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying.

I've said this to you many times before - you keep twisting it however to "hey, words that taken out of context say what I say they say!"
Which is pure misrep gak.

I will admit that me saying I am scum hunting by you pressuring me was not a smart move, but it also doesn't make me scum.

Fascinating - what does it make you?
Because I'm pretty certain it doesn't make you town.
Because I'm pretty sure that's a clear lie.

Rundown of events:
you try to convince people I am Scum.
We have a back and forth
You Scum read me.

IDK about you but that looks a little backwards to me. You should be trying to convince people I'm Scum AFTER you scum read me, not before.

It should look like this:

We have a back and forth
You Scum read me and try to convince people I am Scum.

But that's not what happened.

If you change "convince people you're scum" to "present evidence that I consider potential scum activity for consideration" then, oddly, the whole conversation magically makes perfect sense.
Strange that.

if you haven't see me talk about the fact that I have a Scummy meta in other games then you clearly are not looking hard enough or at the right games. The reality is, I am getting more and more fed up with being lynchbait so I am talking about it more now.

And I am different today because I was previously really sleep deprived and am not not sleep deprived.

By today I meant this game, here, today, as opposed to past games.
You also didn't address my point - let's try this again.

I do not find any "woe is me and my scummy play" play in your other town games.
I do find it here.
Why?

Because what I am looking at is a very experienced player pressure a newb and Scum reading them based on things that are not AI for newbs. It doesn't interfere with scum hunting as that person can still answer if I don't actually answer any question directed to that player, which I didn't.

SO you're saying I'm not allowed to pressure newbs in this game?
That would make it hard for me to do much, wouldn't it.
SO, really we get something that doesn't matter (relative experience) and something that is debatable (whether it was alignment telling) and a lack of awareness that answering other people's questions for them gaks with scumhunting.
Okay - good luck in other games when you do this and get called scummy for it.
Learn to stop doing it eventually.

I am not lying. I haven't been in this situation where someone was relentlessly pressuring me with wall post for quite a while - you are not looking at the right games.

You were kinda lying when you acted like I needed to link Micros you had played in to prove they existed.
You should have fully known they existed - so it was a weird response.

Here is a game where the same thing happened. Its not exactly the same, but it should be clear that there was a player who was Scum reading me because they didn't understand me. I didn't link this game before because its so old, but its still basically the same thing.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61890

[/quote]
To spare me some time, which was the player scumreading you whose interactions are similar - I'm starting to lose interest in full data mining your games.

[Thor665]

So you think its a misrep when I say you are pointing out that you are Town telling... when you are in fact doing that? The fact that that was not your point does not hold any bearing whether you were doing it or not.

Yes it does.

For anyone who needs a quick bit of awareness as to where the misrep argument currently stands.

LQ has apparently come to an understanding that what he said I was doing was not the point I was making.
Meaning he is aware I was talking generic theory.
So, as stands, he must be suggesting that - by me talking generic theory I was hoping to subconsciously suggest that I was town.
This idea will totally ignore that in the same generic theory conversation I also presented thoughts wherein I was scum.
So, apparently while trying to present that I was town, I also subconsciously presented that I was scum at the same time...for...reasons...?

This is why it is a misrep.
This is why he is going crazy trying to twist up his answers - because he knows he is wrong.

[Zyf]

Oh. I get it now.
Your problem is he takes an extra leap of logic.
Ok, I see your point now.

I still don't agree that those tells are AI in any regard because WIFOM.
I think what lickety's saying is that the only reason you'd mention those tells is because you use them, which are logically just wrong, meaning that you're using BS to present why you're town.

[PkmSilver]

@GreenNope

Okay - how does that make them more likely to vote second?

For instance, what if PKMSilver is scum? That would make it less likely for him to be voted by scum, yet more likely to be voted by town - making my vote a town tell, not a scum tell.
Also, as an argument, if I am scum, why would I want to do something that grabs attention (as an aggressive second vote always does) which would make it less likely for scum to place a second vote than town. Again, making it a town tell.
Also, let's say I am scum, and you are town, if someone agrees with you that I am scum for placing a second vote, and votes me - would that then make me town and them scum, forcing you to move your vote? Or does your tell only apply for the very first second vote of the game?

I don't feel like you're actually thinking this through - am I missing something?

Well, I been lurking a bit because I don't know what really, I can say. As mafia, I think my partner would really bus me here, because I am kinda scummy for the same fact. I am not really know what else to say. They would just lynch me for clear reads. This is pretty hard~. It seems like no one was forcing their votes on me. The first two votes where mostly in the beginning for no reason and right now there is a vote on me because I am giving scum lines.

Do you have any reads currently?

No Town tell about it.. Scum distance each other early, its a pretty common thing. Also, if you are Scum with PKM then there are no more Scum to even vote for them. And lets not forget that your vote on PKM didn't really add any pressure to them at all, but you decided to go after someone else in stead. Don't know that I like you trying to obviously point out your own Town tells. Don't like that at all. Obviously that doesn't matter too much until we get flips, but still.

Which is what, to my understanding, LQ says more complicatedly here.
So how exactly is that a misrep?

@GreenNope

Okay - how does that make them more likely to vote second?

For instance, what if PKMSilver is scum? That would make it less likely for him to be voted by scum, yet more likely to be voted by town - making my vote a town tell, not a scum tell.
Also, as an argument, if I am scum, why would I want to do something that grabs attention (as an aggressive second vote always does) which would make it less likely for scum to place a second vote than town. Again, making it a town tell.
Also, let's say I am scum, and you are town, if someone agrees with you that I am scum for placing a second vote, and votes me - would that then make me town and them scum, forcing you to move your vote? Or does your tell only apply for the very first second vote of the game?

I don't feel like you're actually thinking this through - am I missing something?

I think this line of you proves 100% that you are town. It's really well implied. I think what the the moment you lynch someone that is wrong then you will be most likely push for leading a bad lynch. I think also that mafia is right now playing rather aggressive than safe since they seem to know what they doing. I been reading all the stuff I missed and there are a couple of players that sounded really townie. I would like to have a bit of time to give you names thought. I have to scroll back to do them also you vote with bold and vote: (player) right?. Just making sure.

Quote tags fixed - Mod

[Impoetic]

you can vote by

emboldening

the words "vote X" or you can vote with VOTE: or VOTE: tags, which automatically add the VOTE: part and highlight the text in white.

[PkmSilver]

you can vote by

emboldening

the words "vote X" or you can vote with VOTE: or VOTE: tags, which automatically add the VOTE: part and highlight the text in white.

TY empoetic, I promise I will be more active from now on. So I don't look scum

[Impoetic]

thanks, partner!

[frog]

thanks, partner!

Alright, look, it might have had the potential to be funny the first time, but this 'joking' has worn really thin now and you're beginning to make me very paranoid about your slot. Stop.

[Impoetic]

you say "'joking'" as if that's not what I'm doing!

But you're right, I made a similar joke already in this thread so that was uncalled for and I'm sure it got 0 chuckles.

[frog]

Briefly, I thought he was making rather a lot out of confused players (and deliberately trying to confuse them)

I feel I have been actively bending over *not* to cause confusion.
Can you show any point where it looks like I'm trying to confuse someone?

Yes, it

did

, when you accused LicketyQuickety of deliberately letting a potentially accidental vote stand, and of not answering a question he hadn't actually been asked, and arguably at the beginning of the game with GreenNope (i.e what has formed the basis for our conversation). But I have had a look through your meta, and you are right: you have behaved similarly as town in the past on Day 1, so I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt as to your motivations here.

P-edit: then do something about it!

What, you'd rather me push a lynch I don't believe in?

That was meant to be a supportive remark encouraging activity, not something accusing or aggressive, but I can see how you could interpret it that way. Of course I don't want you to push a lynch you don't believe in (unless you're scum, in which case, please let me catch you). Ask perceptive questions, re-read, look at interactions, whatever, I don't mind.

Null
Frog - Originally a townread but I'm clearly wrong on someone and you're backing off yourself as much as I am here so it's hard for me to reaffirm that you aren't the mafia.

I mean, I'm not sure what else I'm meant to do when the reasons for having suspicion on someone evaporate, but alright I guess

[PkmSilver]

you say "'joking'" as if that's not what I'm doing!

But you're right, I made a similar joke already in this thread so that was uncalled for and I'm sure it got 0 chuckles.

But you made me laugh

[frog]

PkmSilver, are you scum?

[Impoetic]

P-edit: then do something about it!

What, you'd rather me push a lynch I don't believe in?

That was meant to be a supportive remark encouraging activity, not something accusing or aggressive, but I can see how you could interpret it that way. Of course I don't want you to push a lynch you don't believe in (unless you're scum, in which case, please let me catch you). Ask perceptive questions, re-read, look at interactions, whatever, I don't mind.

Ah, my bad. Thanks for the encouragement. <3

Null
Frog - Originally a townread but I'm clearly wrong on someone and you're backing off yourself as much as I am here so it's hard for me to reaffirm that you aren't the mafia.

I mean, I'm not sure what else I'm meant to do when the reasons for having suspicion on someone evaporate, but alright I guess

(I think it was me who put you there so)

Not necessarily thinking you SHOULD be doing more, just that my TR on you has turned to a nullread due to lack of interaction. I'm having the same problem here, so of course I can't fault you for it.

[PkmSilver]

PkmSilver, are you scum?

No, I just happen to live in Calgary and it's stampede week (cowboy), made me remember of a woody meme I seen on memedroid (memes)

[Impoetic]

A combination of the disinvolved attitude, the way he gave reads upon request (but not beforehand) in a way that rang as disingenuous to me on ISO reading it, and what I said already -- "gut."

Hrm
After that interaction I think I'll place LQ comfortably in Null.

personally I find null a bit uncomfortable

...?
How is null uncomfortable?

most townies I know do not enjoy having people at null..............

SCUM MOTIVATION

[KittyMo]

Harkonnen97 replaces Hyped.

[Impoetic]

Welcome!

[Zyf]

A combination of the disinvolved attitude, the way he gave reads upon request (but not beforehand) in a way that rang as disingenuous to me on ISO reading it, and what I said already -- "gut."

Hrm
After that interaction I think I'll place LQ comfortably in Null.

personally I find null a bit uncomfortable

...?
How is null uncomfortable?

most townies I know do not enjoy having people at null..............

SCUM MOTIVATION

Uh.
I put people who should be in null in null, where they should be.

We've seen a little more of Pkm and they just sound straight up off, I see what you guys were referring to before.

VOTE: PkmSilver

[Zyf]

@Frog
Thoughts on Pkm's reads?

[Impoetic]

Hint: the correct answer is "PKM's reads are almost entirely bad"

[Zyf]

Why, because they scumread you?

[Impoetic]

they scumread me and townread greennope

[Zyf]

considering your joking wifom interactions
I don't exactly trust you either right
just letting you know in case you were thinking of getting on a high horse