Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[Maverick1102]

I'm going to vote who I think is less townie. Your sudden jump on innocent looked dodgy, hence my vote on you.

[Rusty]

Oh you wanna play that game Phantom = ghost = white innocence Cobalt = blue = peace where am i getting to? nowhere but you voted me so f you t(*-*t) VOTE: PhantomCobalt

[Maverick1102]

That was productive.

What do you think about mine and cobalt's interactions? And the RQS as a whole thus far?

[Rusty]

d

[Maverick1102]

To be fair, Innocent's first question is an okay one. I'm GMT+0 and because I'm a seasonal worker I'm at work every day of the week barring sunday, which is the day that I sleep all day to recover after my saturday shift(s).

Activity levels? It varies but usually between 1800-2100 GMT daily barring weekends.

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm going to vote who I think is less townie. Your sudden jump on innocent looked dodgy, hence my vote on you.

What about the wagon on innocent? Does that seem dodgy to you because it just appeared?

[PhantomCobalt]

Oh you wanna play that game Phantom = ghost = white innocence Cobalt = blue = peace where am i getting to? nowhere but you voted me so f you t(*-*t) VOTE: PhantomCobalt

To make your vote jump out more, use the "vote" button on the row above the text box you're typing in, it's 5 to the right.

[reso]

1) Have anyone of you played any off-site games?
2)How about on-site games? If so; How Many?
3) How would you describe yourself as an individual?
4) What do you think you will be remembered for this game?
6) Favourite pizza topping?
7) Favourite Movie?
8) Favourite Song/band/music genre?

1) Just finished a 45-man Chocolate game in the other forum. And actually, also waiting for a Dune-based Chocolate game with Spice bartering and temporary resurrection mechanics to begin on the same forums. I'm.... not looking forward to that game because of said extra mechanics.

2) I've previously mentioned this already, but I've attempted a total of 5 games here, only 2 of which I've finished while still of active participation. The last game I attempted was back in 2013, and the last game I finished was was in 2010.

3) A Magi. As in the short story, "The Gift of the Magi". I enjoy helping people, but I do not like getting help back or I'll wait until I absolutely need help before asking for it.. I also tend to be a bit of a lone wolf, as in video games, if there is a sniper character, I'll usually sticking to said sniper character. I have a hard time getting to know people and making friends in general, but despite my hard shell, I think I'm amiable on the inside.

Then again, you probably shouldn't trust someone who calls himself amiable.

4) I have absolutely no idea how I will be playing this game. Thus I do not know of what I will be remembered by. Hopefully, something will come up eventually.

5) [REDACTED}

6) Damn, a food question. There's honestly too many favourites. I guess it depends on the pizza. I usually prefer a Bechamel sauce over a Tomato sauce. My favourite all purpose topping is garlic, followed up by olive and olive oil. My favourite meat is probably proscuitto (I would say raw smoked salmon, but at that point, the pizza is more like a flatbread). I've also enjoyed the use of baby arugula on some pizza as sort of a flavorful garnish after the baking process. Yeah, too much favourites. I could go on and on.

7) I'm more of a documentary person, of which I've enjoyed the most were Planet B-Boy and Zeitgeist.

8) AHH, SO MANY CHOICES. My favourite artist in general is Nujabes (may his soul rest in peace), and I will also listen to other musicians of the same sort of style, such as DJ Okawari. I'm also an avid fan of Caravan Palace, and the Electroswing genre in general.

You aren't asked to regurgitate useless, NAI details such as your favourite film or icecream or whatever. Rather, we get an early indication of how people react under pressure (especially when wagoned) which is vital for spurring on discussion.

That's why I think RVS is far, far superior to getting D1 underway than RQS.

That said, happy with my vote for now.

Why can't you have both? RVS is an essential part of any mafia game, and it's always going to happen. But I see RQS serving as an icebreaker, particularly in newbie games, allowing newer players to ease themselves into discussion. In a newbie game, RQS is always a welcome addition, but understandably so, not so relevant anywhere else. Another considerably-more-hare-brained meta reason RQS is that it would allow veteran players to gauge a newer player's attitude and playstyle. It's too meta and inconsistent to actually be called a legitimate reason, but the possibility exists.

[PhantomCobalt]

For my opinion:

In newbie games, experience questions are good.

In games outside of rome, experience questions are bad.

In all games, RQS is ok.

These eight, (or seven) questions people are answering, I would say 1-4 are experience questions, but 6-8 are questions you'll see in a regular RQS outside of rome.

[Firebringer]

Dragon Training Tip #1: Patience. If you don’t have that, your going to find that your dragon won’t have it either, and you might get a limb bitten off, trust me. The way to train your patience is by seeing how long you can stare at a wall. If you stop, you don’t have enough patience, try again.

Vote Count 1.01

Reso (L-5):
DistructiveNick (L-4): Reso,
Rusty (L-4): PhantomCobalt,
omnyx (L-5):
RyanK (L-5):
innocentvillager (L-3): RyanK, hiplop
PhantomCobalt (L-4): Maverick1102
Maverick1102 (L-5):
hiplop (L-4): innocentvillager,

Not Voting (3): DistructiveNick, Rusty, omnyx,


With 9 Alive, It Takes 5 to Lynch
Day 1 Ends In (expired on 2016-08-01 20:00:00)

[Rusty]

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

[reso]

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

Either use the Vote function provided to you when typing up the chat by typing out the name of the person that you want to vote for, highlighting it, and selecting the Vote function.

Or do what you did, and then boldify it.

[innocentvillager]

I know, SE's you probably hate me and are

probably going to call me out on doing useless bullshit

, but I think it's a good way to start the game and to get a baseline for how we expect to play this game.

Umm yeah because I always receive mixed reviews to RQS. It's not like this is the first time I've proposed and RQS/gotten flack for doing so, it happens almost every game I propose one in; I'm not oblivious to its criticisms.

But especially because hiplop is here I really wanted to do one this time.

You're free to not answer the questions, idc.

I like these questions because it provides a baseline to how we think about reads. We can get our ideas about theory out there at the beginning of the game, and then use those as reference tells for how we read each other later in the day. IMO it's not just "noise", but I guess debateable. Of course responses to my questions are NAI now, but it might not be later as we see how people develop their reads.

And plus, it's the beginning of the day, everything is basically null anyway.

Again, I gave a real example of how we got another scumtell on someone in a previous game, if you want to see.

[innocentvillager]

Minor TR on mav and very minor one on RyanK.

Very minor SR on Rusty and Phantom.

[RyanK]

VOTE: hiplop.

[RyanK]

You aren't asked to regurgitate useless, NAI details such as your favourite film or icecream or whatever. Rather, we get an early indication of how people react under pressure (especially when wagoned) which is vital for spurring on discussion. That's why I think RVS is far, far superior to getting D1 underway than RQS.

That said, happy with my vote for now.

You say wagoning is the best way to get reactions, but you vote for me to put me at L-4, and not innocent to put him at L-2? Pretty weak logic.

Apparently, PhantomCobalt, Maverick1102's method just worked.

[hiplop]

Another considerably-more-hare-brained meta reason RQS is that it would allow veteran players to gauge a newer player's attitude and playstyle. It's too meta and inconsistent to actually be called a legitimate reason, but the possibility exists.

Yea this is what I use it for. For example your list of pizza toppings tells me a whole lot about you than I would normally have to guess. A lot of scumhunting has to do with understanding perspectives of where a person is coming from

I apologize I can only check in quick here. More in 6-8 hours

[RyanK]

Hi gais, I'm one of the SE's for this game. hiplop is the IC (Inexperience Challenged) which means he can't lie about game theory/mechanics and stuff, but feel free to ask any of us SE's about such issues if you want too (be careful, we CAN lie though).

In the spirit of old school mafia, I'd love to do some... wait for it.... wait for it....

RQS! (Random Questioning Stage)

I know, SE's you probably hate me and are probably going to call me out on doing useless bullshit, but I think it's a good way to start the game and to get a baseline for how we expect to play this game.

Questions:
1) When/how often do you expect to post?
2) Is low activity a scumtell? Is high activity a towntell?
3) Lynch "all" liars or no?
4) Is too scummy to be scum a fallacy, or not?
5) (for those who have played before) What's your towngame like, and what's your scumgame like?

-----

1) I'll likely be posting relatively actively (maybe 1-3 times a day on average), but as for walls, I don't think I'll post a lot of those on here especially since I am in quite a few other games and modding some.

2) To some degree, I think that scum has an intrinsic motivation to not post/create apathy and deny the town information. The more you post, the more you might expose yourself. That said, scum also might have an intrinsic motivation to assert themselves and drive town towards mislynching another townie. So I think activity can be AI (alignment indicative), depending on the intent of the posts, but this is a tricky and often controversial question. I think activity is more AI when it comes to newbies, but the more experience one gets, the less AI activity is imo.

3) This was a common question often posed on MS, at least in the older days. I think town should do everything in their power to not lie, since a townie can play this game without lying, while scum can't. It's the one leverage town has over scum. The moment a townie lies, it adds a lot of confusion and can also give scum a crutch to lie. There are some very rare cases where it's okay to lie (like in weird setups where you claim a different role than your own to throw off the night kill), but for the purposes of this newbie game, I highly encourage everyone townie NOT to lie, even when claiming power roles. So lynch all liars? Maybe a little extreme, but if we see someone lying in this game, we should fight tooth and nail to figure out why they lied, and at the very least reward them a massive load of scumpoints for doing so.

4) To some degree, but I think it's important to distinguish something. Remember that the goal of scum is to a) survive (or get partner to survive) and b) get other townies lynched. A lot of scum will try towntell a lot, since they are extremely concerned with their image. So I think there are cases where "too scummy to be scum" cannot be dismissed as a fallacy, for example when there is no scum motivation to do a lot of scummy things. If someone is lurking out, weirdly casting votes, etc., it doesn't necessarily mean that they're scum. They're doing some "scummy things", but sometimes stuff like this is indicative that the player is not concerned with their images. That being said, there are some times where this is a fallacy, for example if scum lays a hammer down on a townie very aggressively (generally, when scum does something that clearly benefits their alignment). In this case, using the "too scummy to be scum" logic is fallacious since getting that townie lynched clearly benefitted scum.

5) You can look in my old games for some meta and stuff. I'm pretty different across games tbh, and even within games. It kind of depends on how I feel. My last completed game was Newbie 1717, where I won (pretty luckily) as scum. Any completed game before that was more than 2 years ago, since I took a 2 year hiatus from this site, so take anything you see there with a grain of salt. What you might find is that sometimes I am generally fairly aggressive as town, am generally pretty good at townhunting (and therefore getting scum by PoE), and I am rarely concerned with my image (but don't take it from me, take it for yourself! And make sure to skim through at least two games each of my town and scum games before you make a hasty conclusion). I honestly am not a fan of playing scum (if I could, I would avoid playing it), and sometimes that reflects in my game. I try to emulate my aggressive town playstyle as scum, but posting for me feels very unnatural and forced when I am scum. Sometimes it works out okay, like in my most recent game, but sometimes it doesn't quite work out so well.

------

I recommend that everyone answers these questions (you don't have to write as much as me), or if you don't want to, explain why you don't like these questions. I won't be offended if you choose the latter, since I know how much people have gravitated away from RQS (but I wanted to bring it back ).

Anyway,

VOTE: hiplop

Hi hiplop!! Nostalgia at its finest.

This is my second game with hiplop, ever. The first game I was with hiplop in was actually my very first game on this site, more than 4 years ago: Newbie 1222. He was also the IC in that game, and I was mostly a Village Idiot burden to the town (but, to be fair, my reads were nearly spot on besides the D1 mislynch lol). So if any of you newbies are concerned about this game, at least take solace in knowing that definitely you won't be as bad as I was in my first game . Hiplop I hope I've improved since then lol

1)When/how often do you expect to post?
From Mondays to Fridays, expect me to post irregularly (for a game like this, posts can't be regular) anytime between 1545 to 2245. On Saturdays, expect me to post (also irregularly) from 0645 to 2245. On Sundays, expect me to post from 0645 to 0730 (this time frame is most likely a time of no posts) and later from 1545 to 2245 (still irregularly). All time mentioned here is measured in GMT+8 as switching it to the standard GMT+0 is very difficult when handling different days as one's next day is not necessarily another's next day.
For now, I need to get back to work. Leftover questions will be answered later.

[PhantomCobalt]

You aren't asked to regurgitate useless, NAI details such as your favourite film or icecream or whatever. Rather, we get an early indication of how people react under pressure (especially when wagoned) which is vital for spurring on discussion. That's why I think RVS is far, far superior to getting D1 underway than RQS.

That said, happy with my vote for now.

You say wagoning is the best way to get reactions, but you vote for me to put me at L-4, and not innocent to put him at L-2? Pretty weak logic.

Apparently, PhantomCobalt, Maverick1102's method just worked.

How so?

[RyanK]

Now, let's continue with this Q&A session.

...
2) Is low activity a scumtell? Is high activity a towntell?
...

Maybe not, Firebringer's activity rate is quite low, but he's definitely not a scum .

...
3) Lynch "all" liars or no?
....

Maybe not, for example, innocentvillager drew a very powerful role. He should lie about it and do whatever he needs to so he won't be a night-kill targer. This creates a WIFOM, though, and he may get killed.

...
4) Is too scummy to be scum a fallacy, or not?
...

Maybe not. I looked up mafiascum wiki for it and it said it is WIFOM, which means there is a 50% chance that he/she/it/none-of-your-business is scum.

...
5) (for those who have played before) What's your towngame like, and what's your scumgame like?
...

Well, I've played a face to face game before and it wasn't at all like this. Well, my towngame is very quiet in these face to face games (maybe because I

was

a very quite person back then). For the only time I drew scum, I immediately gave myself away by saying my target out loud.

[RyanK]

Well, you aren't over reacting, so he has already see that you could handle pressure quite well.

[PhantomCobalt]

Well, you aren't over reacting, so he has already see that you could handle pressure quite well.

Experienced players never over react to RVS wagons, because they know they are 99% not going to be lynched.

[PhantomCobalt]

Or rvs votes in general

[RyanK]

If that's the case, innocentvillager wouldn't over react either, so maybe wagoning isn't at all a very good method.

[PhantomCobalt]

If that's the case, innocentvillager wouldn't over react either, so maybe wagoning isn't at all a very good method.

It's good for getting out of rvs, but not really for getting reactions