Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[RyanK]

...
Maybe not,

for example, innocentvillager drew a very powerful role.

He should lie about it and do whatever he needs to so he won't be a night-kill targer. This creates a WIFOM, though, and he may get killed.

reso considered this as a slip. If this slip, which seems more major than yours, was later proven to not be actually a slip, how can yours really be a slip?

[RyanK]

...
Maybe not,

for example, innocentvillager drew a very powerful role.

He should lie about it and do whatever he needs to so he won't be a night-kill targer. This creates a WIFOM, though, and he may get killed.

reso considered this as a slip. If this slip, which seems more major than yours, was later proven to not be actually a slip, how can yours really be a slip?

innocentvillager shouldn't be in the quote, just didn't delete it.

[0x40]

...
Maybe not,

for example, innocentvillager drew a very powerful role.

He should lie about it and do whatever he needs to so he won't be a night-kill targer. This creates a WIFOM, though, and he may get killed.

reso considered this as a slip. If this slip, which seems more major than yours, was later proven to not be actually a slip, how can yours really be a slip?

Calling that a slip seems a bit far fetched, as it was clearly meant as an example.
As innocentvillager puts it,

He was replying to my comment, I don't see why him using me as an example is so sketchy. If he had said anyone else's name, then YEAH that's weird as shit.

What makes you think it is more major than Vaxkiller's slip?

[Maverick1102]

0x40 stop tunnelling it's very distracting.

Neither of the 'slips' are slips, because they're both examples and not outright statements in the course of open play. Don't be so absurdly tunnelly.

Cobalt is at

L-1

by the way guys, and so if someone fancies declaring intent to hammer that'd be great. We've caught scum stop faffing about with ill-concieved conjecture.

I think the time to claim is now, Cobalt.

[Maverick1102]

Also, slip 0x40 into my townpile.

[RyanK]

UNVOTE: PhantomCobalt. We shouldn't lynch so quickly. Sorry for not declaring.

[RyanK]

Welcome back to my scumdar, maverick. You've played for months now and you still don't know that hammering someone means the end of the day? We've still got 230 hours and we're going to waste that just to hammer PhantomCobalt? VOTE: maverick1102

[PhantomCobalt]

Ok town let's have a quick lesson on when to claim, and it's not what Maverick said!

If you are at L-1, before you are hammered it is proper etiquette for someone to "intent to hammer", this when you should claim!

If you get hammered without someone stating intent, that is a quickhammer. Dont quickhammer guys, unless it's closing in on deadline. Quickhammering a town usually gets you PL'ed outside of Rome.

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm still wondering why there isn't more focus on Cobalt for trying to quietly push through a quickhammer and then, when it got fluffed up by an invalid vote, itrying to salvage it and score townpoints.

Cobalt, what were your reasons for putting Inno to L-1 in your #89? If people are really going to berate and even vote me for 'not explaining my vote' or whatever (I have) then they should also have reacted far, far more angrily to the hammer-that-never-was earlier.

Are you joking?

[0x40]

0x40 stop tunnelling it's very distracting.

Neither of the 'slips' are slips, because they're both examples and not outright statements in the course of open play. Don't be so absurdly tunnelly.

Cobalt is at

L-1

by the way guys, and so if someone fancies declaring intent to hammer that'd be great. We've caught scum stop faffing about with ill-concieved conjecture.

I think the time to claim is now, Cobalt.

Vaxkiller's slip was in a statement, not an example. Explain how it is not a slip:

Ryan's post count is just through the roof, and he seems to be nitpicking really early... that is how I play scum, just trying to sew dissension in the ranks. He has to be scum.

He is outright stating that RyanK is scum.

[PhantomCobalt]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

[reso]

I apologize for the slight absence.

...
WRONG. I was the one attacking you and IV. The only thing IV had done is was label you as having a 'very minor TR'. If the both of us must be scumbuddies according to your reversal of my logic onto myself, why would you vote for the one that's given you a 'very minor TR', and not the one that's actually attacking you?
...

...
I've already expressed my reasons why I think you and IV are scum. However, when I try to view the situation from your point of view, I don't really see the same thing. Regardless of whatever side you are of, IV has given you a 'very minor TR'. So if I were you, I'd be like 'Woot.' But in comes this Reso guy and his reasoning and his form of logic accusing me of being scum. Given the circumstances, why would you vote for IV and not me? For what reasons did your scumdar ping on IV?
...

VOTE: reso for inviting me to do this to it, twice.

The vote isn't quite as important as the fact that you decided to sidestep my question. Please answer the question in the second statement.

Though in the following post, you declared Maverick and Hiplop as your scum suspects. And yet you didn't change your vote to them? I realize that I've been pushing you about your vote in IV instead of me because of my pushing against the both of you, but when you have a list of scum suspects, shouldn't you be voting for them?

Wtf I never said anything about your questions?? I'm saying that your case on me/RyanK is based off of one or two RVS interactions, and you are just speculatively confbiasing off of that now whenever you see new evidence.

Then are you saying that my questions aren't worth answering because my accusation was, for lack of a better word, dumb?

I said it could be indicative of having played before, not that it's the only way to interpret his name. If he isn't a newbie, pretending to be one would make a lot of sense, as he could hammer and not always get lynched d2 for it.

I think you guys are starting to read a little bit too much into the name of someone.

I'm still wondering why there isn't more focus on Cobalt for trying to quietly push through a quickhammer and then, when it got fluffed up by an invalid vote, itrying to salvage it and score townpoints.

Cobalt, what were your reasons for putting Inno to L-1 in your #89? If people are really going to berate and even vote me for 'not explaining my vote' or whatever (I have) then they should also have reacted far, far more angrily to the hammer-that-never-was earlier.

You seem pretty sure that IV is innocent. I mean, you're going as far as just calling IV 'Inno'. It's still Day 1. The only ones that are allowed that kind of surety are the people that know they aren't innocent themselves.

UNVOTE: innocentvillager
VOTE: Maverick1102

Why weren't you scum-hunting? Feels pretty scummy to me.

What exactly is your definition of 'scum hunting'? 0x40 found weird wording and decided to push on it. It's honestly the only thing anyone can do at this point because it's still Day 1. What exactly are you expecting out of us?

[0x40]

Are you joking?

You should answer his question.

Also, what are your thoughts on the Vaxkiller slip?

[PhantomCobalt]

Wagon on Mav? This is the best day of my life

VOTE: Maverick

Weak logic all around, can't hunt scum because he is scum

[Vaxkiller]

The problem here is with him stating that you are scum, which is completely impossible for him to know if he himself is not scum.

Lol this argument! 0x40, when you vote are you voting for scum or town? If your voting for scum, you must in turn be scum? I don't follow...

I like how you bring up some random vote at the beginning of the game as "proof" of an original idea. What has rusty done since then to dissuade you from thinking hes scum? I think its likely you vote for him in case one of you are found out, so the other looks less like scum.

My vote stays, but I really want to hear some more from Rusty.

[0x40]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

And why should he be so confident that RyanK is scum? There's no way he could know that without being mafia.

[PhantomCobalt]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

And why should he be so confident that RyanK is scum? There's no way he could know that without being mafia.

Uhh just trust me it's just something people say

[0x40]

The problem here is with him stating that you are scum, which is completely impossible for him to know if he himself is not scum.

Lol this argument! 0x40, when you vote are you voting for scum or town? If your voting for scum, you must in turn be scum? I don't follow...

I like how you bring up some random vote at the beginning of the game as "proof" of an original idea. What has rusty done since then to dissuade you from thinking hes scum? I think its likely you vote for him in case one of you are found out, so the other looks less like scum.

My vote stays, but I really want to hear some more from Rusty.

You're completely misinterpreting my argument here. It's not the vote I have a problem with, but the fact that you stated that RyanK is scum. You have no way of knowing that if you aren't scum yourself.

[PhantomCobalt]

1. By your logic, 99% of mafiascum players turbobus every game
2. I said Mav is scum, does that mean I'm turbobusing Mav?

[0x40]

Uhh just trust me it's just something people say

Saying that someone has to be scum when in reality you're just making an educated guess, that doesn't really sound like something a townie should be saying.
How is lying about someone being scum when you don't actually know that that someone is scum of benefit to town?

[PhantomCobalt]

Im just going to stop arguing with you now

[0x40]

1. By your logic, 99% of mafiascum players turbobus every game
2. I said Mav is scum, does that mean I'm turbobusing Mav?

1) Yeah, right. And 100% of those numbers you pulled out of your ass.
2) If you are seriously claiming that Maverick1102 has to be scum, I'd say you're an idiot.

[Maverick1102]

Reso, if you spell InnocentVillager's name, the word 'Inno' is an easy way to shorten it. Don't try to misrepresent what I'm saying.

I'm getting rather sick of the double standards in this game.

Cobalt puts someone at L-1, doesn't draw attention to it hoping someone will hammer and it very (very) nearly works but for a fluffed vote and a technicality in the rules.
I put someone at L-2, I draw attention to when it progresses to L-1 and I ask for intent to hammer and all of a sudden I'm scum?

Cobalt quickly backtracks (having no conviction in his vote-SCUM) and looks to earn townpoints by looking about for ways to not have the hammer apply (eventually settling on the same rule quote I do) and somehow succeeds.
I vote a legitimate scumread, ask for more votes, ask for intent to hammer and a claim and yet somehow I'm scummy for it?

If anybody thinks scum isn't on my wagon (cough COBALT cough) then you seriously need to walk away, give your head a wobble to make sure it's screwed on, then return to the game and vote for Cobalt. I'm seriously getting frustrated that scum is pulling so hard on town's strings here.

[Maverick1102]

Wagon on Mav? This is the best day of my life

VOTE: Maverick

Weak logic all around, can't hunt scum because he is scum

Look at the opportunism! Can't even start his own case on me for a mislynch, and has to wait for others to help him out.

[Maverick1102]

Welcome back to my scumdar, maverick. You've played for months now and you still don't know that hammering someone means the end of the day? We've still got 230 hours and we're going to waste that just to hammer PhantomCobalt? VOTE: maverick1102

I would much rather lynch scum now than gift them the chance to talk their way out of it. Putting off a hammer because 'ooh there's plenty of time left' is weak at best.