Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

[Zorblag]

@Rachmarie, could you talk to me a bit more about what it is that you're changing for your read for Foxbird now that you think she's more experienced/crafty/competent/adjective? I certainly acknowledge that that can make all the difference, but what were you giving her a pass on before that you aren't anymore?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@everyone, we're now down to about 2 and a half days until deadline. We don't want to no lynch, so it's time to get everyone in here and on wagons so we can see where we are. If you want to make a case against a wagon that's formed now's the time to do it.

@fiddlercrabontheroof, I know you've had things come up, but you need to be here in the next 24 hours and caught up with the game. We have nothing from your slot and we need it both for the sake of getting another eyes on the game as well as a way to judge your intentions.

@Innocentvillager, see above of course. We've got more to work with from your slot, but those contributions would be very nice.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Jaack]

reading through the game sigh 7 pages and almost nothing at this point. I am finding it hard to really peg down several of the players and that sucks

I will be watching Inno carefully to see if he shows himself as town

Just finished a game where fox was one head of a hydra that tried to get me lynched, so I am thinking I may be giving her too much leeway as a newbie which is a bad habit I have. The fake claim gambit she and her hydra partner did then them and their scum bud who was being rather town read (Kuribo) almost lynched me then lynched Jiffy before he got back to the game.

yeah

VOTE: fox

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but how does this make foxbird scum?

Still feeling gratuitous is town. Nacho's ketchup is also pretty townie.

I do have growing scumfeels with zorblag. With both foxbird and gratuitous he moved from a scumread to a townread just as pushes on them started to get traction. While I kind of understand his reasoning behind each shift, it feels kind of jumpy to me, which doesn't quite gel with the general tone of his posts. Going to reread his is to see if I'm missing something.

Pedit-and there's three more posts of content to read and reread.

[Zorblag]

@Jaack, for what it's worth, there's no reason for anyone to understand my "shift" on Gratuitous at this point. I didn't bring it up before Nachomamma8 mentioned it because I'm still working through some thoughts. RachMarie is the one I'm most comfortable with as scum at this point, and while I'm thinking Foxbird is more likely town, that's not necessarily true of Gratuitous. Sorry that that's a bit confusing, but it's all I'd like to say about it for now. I have no doubt that it'll come up later though.

Could you say what makes you think Gratuitous is town at this point though?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Jaack, also I think you have your timings a bit off, but out of curiosity, what do you think the scum motivation for moving from a scum read to a town read on multiple players when the pushes started to get traction? I could see one if you thought I was protecting a partner, but two confuses me a bit.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[innocentvillager]

Hi guys, sorry lot of other games going on atm but my V/LA is over so tomorrow I should be able to get some analysis in, if not tomorrow then Wed for sure.

Also Nacho you no say hi to me?

[Zorblag]

@innocentvillager, I know you're busy, but please be aware that the deadline for the day is Thursday afternoon (in US timezones.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[innocentvillager]

Oh shoot, I did not notice that. I will make this game my top priority for tomorrow then, thanks for telling me Zorbs!

[innocentvillager]

WAIT WTF ONLY 8 PAGES and 2 days to deadline????

[Zorblag]

It's pretty readable is the plus side. It's picked up recently, but I'll let you take a look.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RachMarie]

I tend to assume newb scum are kind of timid but I know from the game that just ended that is not the case with Fox

[Zorblag]

@RachMarie, how has she been scummy in a non-timid way then? The case might be there in fragments in your posts (though I didn't see it when i looked,) so lay it out for us please.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Foxbird]

Just finished a game where fox was one head of a hydra that tried to get me lynched, so I am thinking I may be giving her too much leeway as a newbie which is a bad habit I have. The fake claim gambit she and her hydra partner did then them and their scum bud who was being rather town read (Kuribo) almost lynched me then lynched Jiffy before he got back to the game.

yeah

VOTE: fox

Did you read the scum PT for that one? I just did what kuribo said and was freaking out about it most of the time. That win was all him.

[Nachomamma8]

This just seems like a worse game with unforced errors and it's giving me pause as I'm trying to understand why. I might have a theory (one I woke up at 4:30 in the morning and thought of,) and at this point I'd like to give him a little more rope.

His town game also similarly seemed stronger than this particular game, so it's not a matter of comfortable as scum and uncomfortable as town; I'd also be more ready to compare this game with his large theme scum play as opposed to his engaged strong scum game.

I have no doubt that he could be town but I'd rather give him room because he's doing town things as opposed to because he's less engaged here than he was in another scum game (which doesn't exactly scream town to me).

[Nachomamma8]

Out of curiosity, is there anything that RachMarie would be doing as scum that she's not doing now in your experience?

Not really, but my read there usually happens from the absence of towntells as opposed to the presence of scumtells.

[Nachomamma8]

Hi guys, sorry lot of other games going on atm but my V/LA is over so tomorrow I should be able to get some analysis in, if not tomorrow then Wed for sure.

Also Nacho you no say hi to me?

You didn't say hi to me even though you said hi to zorblag and rach

[Nachomamma8]

I'll review Jaack's Fox case later today.

[ecane]

I didn't think that kinda answer was even necessary.

Hey ecane - this is a reason you talked about for not liking Foxbird's 54; could you explain what you meant by Foxbird's answer being "unnecessary"? Are you trying to say that Foxbird's response was overdefensive, untrue, or something else entirely?

Yes, it did strike me as a little bit too defensive. I didn't think there was anything scummy about 49, as she later explained. She was focusing on that but not even mentioning her interaction with Caston, which I thought was more important at that time. It could be just how the sentence was formed that seemed off to me though.

I'm still not sure on where to place her. She does seem like she's scumhunting and getting conversations started, but some of her posts just seem too defensive. Especially those where's she talking about the supposed to be townie stuff she's doing. That should be noticable on its own. Seemed to me almost like she planned it in advance to say, ''see, i've been doing this, i've been doing that...''. I got that kinda feeling when I was reading some her posts. That's why I'm hesitant to give her a town lean.

[ecane]

Rach: I feel like she's genuinely busy, maybe that's why most of her posts are about meta and past experiences as it's easier to talk about that than what's happening particulary in this game. And saying that there's not enough info to get scum reads..., would she really be that careless to say something like that if she was scum? Not sure. Not the biggest fan about her vote on Foxbird and the reasoning behind it though as well. I'm gonna give her a slight scum lean for now.

Jaack and Nacho still seem town to me.
Already stated my thoughts on Zorbalg. Sill having issues with the player he replaced, but that's all there is.

As for Delta's ''I quit'': Since he mentioned he played more casual games before, he might just not like the gameplay here as it's maybe not as casual as on other forums. So, his ''I quit'' seemed more like ''F this, I'm outta here''. I'm reading his spot null.

[ecane]

2) Ties into the reasons I didn't want to disclose previously. I was hoping to pick up some information from the reactions of the early two wagons in order to get a better read on them. Unfortunately as both ended up flaking not long after that, it turned out poorly.

Pick up info how exactly? I didn't really see you putting much effort into getting those reads and information you're talking about.

@Gratuitous: Why did you only address ecane in 91?

Your read wall is all sorts of hedge, I don't like that.

I addressed ecane partly because I had a town lean on him, and more importantly, other than Jack who'd I'd been talking to at that point, ecane seemed to be the only one around to answer.

What good are giant general question going to do? It's easier to get a read on someone by asking them a direct question.

You said in your last post before 91 that I have not stood out to you yet, now you're saying you had a town lean on me.

Not buying any of these answers.
VOTE: Gratuitous

[RachMarie]

lol yeah Kuribo is a force of nature...
That game was something else lol still shaking my head over you and him switching from lynching me to lynching Jiffy before he got back talk about ballsy.

uggh part of it is I just do not really have much of anything to sink my teeth into

I have two fairly solid town reads now that Nacho is posting. Scum Nacho would be hanging me out to dry or his scum bud whomever that would be.

Those are Troll and Nacho.

I need to see more from Inno I want that slot pegged. I should be able to tell if it is town Inno once he has posted more. If he doesn't he moves to my scum pile.

Jaack and ecaine seem like town leans but they are very week reads, mostly because at least they POSTED.

I am torn on Fox but her mention of Kuribo leading her around also I can see that in both the scum PT and what I know about the dude. And he is VERY good, I actually was town reading him. That fake claim of watcher and saying I was visiting Kuribo to keep him from shooting SSK was pure genius.


Grat could be changing his play a bit because he knows I just finished a game with him as scum.

Grat do you have any finished town games at all? I know you are fairly new to the site.

[Gratuitous]

So, in earlier walls, I've talked about why Gratuitous's 86 bothered me, but for people who don't like the read, Delta asked him why he didn't address an earlier post (53) and mentioned that he thought that Gratuitous would address it in his latest post (63). While that wasn't exactly reasoning that blew me away, Gratuitous's argument is that Delta was scum because Gratuitous's #63 had nothing to do with #53 and thus that somehow showed a scum mindset. I don't like Gratuitous's part in this because it doesn't really feel like an argument that anyone would believe in, and it feels like an aggressive response to someone who I feel would probably be a pretty likely push for a mislynch from scum.

It's was scum minded because it was pushing a false narrative. And why exactly would I have made that push as scum exactly? There was enough already for me to have voted for Delta before that point and have gotten the mislynch.

Grat do you have any finished town games at all? I know you are fairly new to the site.

I have one town game on here from last year.

I'm not getting lynched today so you should find a better choice

[Gratuitous]

Pick up info how exactly? I didn't really see you putting much effort into getting those reads and information you're talking about.

No I was pushing Delta for the fun of it /s. And you're ignoring the obvious. How people when they react when they have a wagon on them can often be telling, so I waited to see the reaction. Which as stated, was useless because both left.

[Gratuitous]

You said in your last post before 91 that I have not stood out to you yet, now you're saying you had a town lean on me.

Not buying any of these answers.
VOTE: Gratuitous

You do realize there were nearly 48 between those posts, and having been asked that question I might have done a skim of your posts in that time period?

Not to point out truck sized holes in your logic

[Gratuitous]

I don't like his case on RachMarie. The interactions point seems suspicious when Rach and Gratuitous haven't actually had any sort of significant interaction so far this game (what interactions could he be reasonably viewing as wooden?), and I think that him saying that he looked at Rach's posts a couple days ago and noticed that she wasn't actually posting any content doesn't actually line up with his posting from around that time; his post was "Let's get this game moving!" which is not something that I think happens when you've been holding back on a case on someone.

Read #42 & #43 in context