In post 440, Hoopla wrote: In post 436, rb wrote:I don't like the Rosske town flip and the defence, and I don't think it's as uncommon as you say. Defending "townreads" happens relatively often from scum because it's still a better play than lynching a
In post 438, rb wrote:As in, a town player attempting to divert a lynch just based on wagon analysis seems insane to me. Maybe it IS playstyle, but I don't know if I can just chalk it up to that.
If you don't know whether it is playstyle or not, then how can you be suspicious of it? Shouldn't it be NAI if you can't determine my motivations? Do you really not ever see townies defend other townies at L-1 when they believe they are town?
Well no. Good play is good play whether you're scum or town, wouldn't you agree? Good play as town is good play. Good play as scum is anything that looks like good town play. If a player is very good (which you appear to be) then you can't discern scum/town play by whether it's bad or not, but by the context of the game and the motivations.
I don't see town!hoopla motivation in defending Rosske at L-1, even WITH wagon analysis. Do you often defend people who're playing scummy as shit just because your wagon analysis says they aren't scum? There's some small amount of room for me to wriggle on this one, but I just don't see how this is a town motivated play over a scum one.
Like I agree with your earlier point, SOMETIMES town defend town at L-1 - but that's pretty rare in my POV and also it's usually done moreso when a player is playing a very active game and contributing a lot, not when they're basically lurker status like Rosske was. I don't really think anyone had bad reasons for lynching Rosske and I'm going to temporarily say that at this point in time I'm thinking the same way as GuiltyLion, in that reading based on actual play - Rosske was scum. To me, wagon analysis and meta are secondary things, the important thing is how people are in a particular game. Yeah okay, playstyle differences - but tell me what behaviour CAN'T be justified by "playstyle differences"?
"Playstyle" can cover anything, and if it can cover anything, then anything it covers doesn't have much meaning imo. What can't cover everything, is motivation, context and intent and so I consider them more meaningful because they're the things that REALLY help you find scum.
We can disagree and call it "playstyle" but I don't see any reason that you couldn't pull this play as either scum or town, and I think there's a lot more to be gained doing it as scum than town.
