Micro 624: Grey Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[RachMarie]

log in on your hydra on another browser that is the easiest way to prevent hydra or alt slips. Tis what I did because I knew otherwise I would be in trouble, especially with as many things and tabs I have going in my man browser lol.

[thenewearth]

Having a hydra is actually the worst. That was me.

Incognito is nice

[rb]

log in on your hydra on another browser that is the easiest way to prevent hydra or alt slips. Tis what I did because I knew otherwise I would be in trouble, especially with as many things and tabs I have going in my man browser lol.

"Man browser"

Sounds lewd!

Yeah TNE, just figured that out

[RachMarie]

oops that was supposed to be MAIN browser

[GuiltyLion]

I don't see how those posts are towny...

java doesn't look like he's trying to solve the game, has few unique opinions, and is non-committal.

Is that because you could be scum?

It looks to me like he's trying to solve the game. His push on karnos by "setting aside the derphammer argument" feels genuine, it shows he's looking at motivations and tone more so than NAI opinions/contradictions which is what scum tend to riff on. And he pointed out a potentially subtle townslip, I see absolutely no scum!motivation in doing that. I was hoping you'd identify what I was looking at but you don't seem interested in considering the possibility of town!javajoe. Why?

I don't believe in noncommittal behavior being a scumtell. I know it goes against site meta but I think town are often genuinely unsure of themselves and I think it's much easier for scum to commit themselves to fake reads in an effort to look "committed" and like they "believe in their reads".

[GuiltyLion]

I'm still getting a scummy feeling from Rach. Now it seems terrible to say, given my own absense lately, but it seemed like after her push on me failed to achieve a lynch she has largely faded into the background. That seems more like a scum (who failed to push a miss-lynch) than a town action to me.

This push from karnos feels scummy to me, he's dismissing that she has stated she'll be V/LA and also self-conscious of his own hypocrisy.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: karnos

I may still go back to Hoopla but I think he's scum in either world of Hoopla's alignment and I'd like to see if anyone will follow me here.

[GuiltyLion]

also I totally thought it's been 4 to lynch and just realized that consensus for 5 votes to lynch is going to be very hard. If scum flat out refuse to vote their buddies then it will require all 5 townies to townblock on a correct lynch, so we need everyone to get involved in consolidating and narrowing down potential wagons ASAP. I will be around to switch back to Hoopla if needed.

[GuiltyLion]

If there's a tie under this rule, the tiebreak will be based on the sequence in which the votes were made.

mod/callforjudgment - can you explain this more clearly? What sequence determines which lynch goes through in a tie?

It's actually really complex to explain it in a way that has no loopholes/corner cases. The easiest way to think about it is this: whenever a player changes their vote, I sort the vote count by the number of votes on each player, but if two players have the same number of votes, I leave them in the same relative positions on the vote count (i.e. one player only moves above another on the vote count if they had more votes). Although there isn't a vote count after every post, this conceptually gets updated every post (so you never have two votes made "simultaneously" for the purpose of the tiebreak). The player who gets lynched at deadline is the player at the top of the votecount. If for whatever reason there are no votes at deadline, the player who's lynched is whoever had a vote on them most recently. — callforjudgement

[Javajoe24]

Well I am scum reading you [karnos] without looking at the derp hammer argument at all. But I can't deny that rachs play is very suspicious of you are town.

rb - why do you say my Day1 scumreads are "awful" when we both finished the day on the Rosske wagon and we are both currently scumreading Hoopla?

Tbh I don't know how someone could scumread Hoopla + Rosske Day 1. That scumteam just looks absurd to me. With Rosske flipping town I see it as a towncred move, but someone picking a Hoopla + Rosske pairing is just weird af. Scum don't defend their partner when they're at L-1 with multiple people declaring intent to give intent, it's just dumb. Plus the fact you never really aired any suspicions of Hoopla, other than just putting them in your read list (unexplained as far as I know) when you put quite a lot of effort into 'pressuring' your other 2 scumreads is telling imo.

This game setup means bussing/distancing is probably to be expected because there's extra scum. I'd be confident in calling a Hoopla + GL scumteam. Your vote on her right after my suspicion on her just makes me go, 'meh'. I meta-read TNE town as well since this is easily recognizable as the same town game I played with her very recently.

So to be clear: it's awful for reads made on Day1. Rosske flipped town, I'm town and you didn't provide much reasoning at all as to why you thought Hoopla was scum. If she flipped scum I'd be more inclined to think you were scum as well, than that you weren't. BUT - we agree on why Hoopla's townread of Rosske is suspect. So...I'm willing to re-evaluate over the course of Day 2 - even though the amount of misrepping you did of me was just absurd that I felt like you just couldn't be seriously trying to solve the game.

Plus we agree on karnos apparently, but I've said before I don't think that simple read-agreement is a strong alignment indicator.

I both agree and disagree with this post. It is true that it odd to think hoopla and Rosske were partners day one because scum hard defending a doomed partner is near suicidal. That being said it is still possible for scum to do this because it just causes wifom. Your second statement is false though, that we should expect scum to bus more this game because we have more scum.

This may be a townslip for you as well, because you seem to have forgotten that we only need to lynch two scum to win

. I am torn with you, while your words are seeming to rub me the wrong way, I get the gut feeling that you are town and actively trying to work this whole thing out.

I find these posts to be particularly townie,

and I'm far more interested in you casing why he's scum than me casing why he's town. PoE argument ain't doing it for me.

Thank you for posting this, I had actually completely forgotten about that townslip by rb. I think since that slip was so subtle that it is more believable as coming from town then the other two which were blatant. Because of that I think rb is prob town.

[Javajoe24]

I would be ok with a karnos lynch, but honestly I think hoopla has a better chance of flipping scum.

[Hoopla]

VOTE: karnos

I may still go back to Hoopla but I think he's scum in either world of Hoopla's alignment and I'd like to see if anyone will follow me here.

how do you figure?

[thenewearth]

java is L-2, right?

[Hoopla]

yes, he is.

[thenewearth]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: joe

CHOO CHOOO

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

Javajoe24

(4): Infinity 324, Hoopla, RachMarie, thenewearth

Hoopla

(2): rb, Javajoe24

rb

(1): karnos

karnos

(1): GuiltyLion

With 8 players alive, a lynch requires 5 votes.
Deadline is Wednesday 3 August at 18:00 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2016-08-03 18:00:00)

)

[thenewearth]

@Mod: Prods?

Nobody's in prod range — callforjudgement

[Infinity 324]

Prod dodge, going to respond about java later today

[RachMarie]

Why is joe not lynched yet?

[Javajoe24]

Why is joe not lynched yet?

What exactly is your case on me anyways? I don't quite get it

[karnos]

On a long drive today. Noting the game state, please don't hammer javajoe, we still have 3 days.

[Infinity 324]

It looks to me like he's trying to solve the game. His push on karnos by "setting aside the derphammer argument" feels genuine, it shows he's looking at motivations and tone more so than NAI opinions/contradictions which is what scum tend to riff on. And he pointed out a potentially subtle townslip, I see absolutely no scum!motivation in doing that.

I still don't feel like there is genuine reasoning behind his arguments. Java has no original reasons to vote hoopla, he just repeated what rb said about the defense of rosske and what TNE said about hoopla buddying.

Also, he weights things is a way that doesn't make sense for town. Java is voting hoopla using a point that rb brought up (the defense of rosske), but doesn't bring that up in his discussion about rb. He does, however, point out that TNE said the same thing as him and called TNE town for that.

Another example is being conflicted on rb in the post where he pointed out the townslip, then later calling rb probably town for it.

I know this is exactly what you're saying is NAI, but I just have a feeling there isn't really a town mindset behind it in this case. Contradictions like that often come from more impulsive town, where java if he was town would be more careful and contemplative. He doesn't seem like the type of person who would think about the same thing twice and come to a different conclusion.

About the karnos thing, I actually think it was easier for java not to look at the derphammer argument. Scum don't like getting into 1v1 arguments, and bringing up the derphammer discussion would likely get him involved in it. It doesn't really feel like he was analyzing motivation or tone there, just a specific thing that karnos did that could have easily come from town.

About pointing out the townslip, you have a point, but scum!java could have easily done that to look like he was trying to read rb.

What I mean by "he doesn't look like he's trying to solve the game" is that it feels like he's pointing out things to call town or scum rather than trying to find who the scum are in a general sense. I guess a lot of it comes down to gut.

I was hoping you'd identify what I was looking at but you don't seem interested in considering the possibility of town!javajoe. Why?

I'm trying to consider the possibility, but I find it hard to see a world where java is town because of how strong my townreads are on everyone. I linked a scumgame of karnos' earlier, and he played completely differently. What do you think about that?

I don't believe in noncommittal behavior being a scumtell. I know it goes against site meta but I think town are often genuinely unsure of themselves and I think it's much easier for scum to commit themselves to fake reads in an effort to look "committed" and like they "believe in their reads".

I think scum tend to be more cautious in their reads because that means they have more leeway to vote for whoever they want. Look at java's positions right now, he could realistically vote for almost anyone in the game except maybe rach. It also makes it less likely to get into 1v1s that way.

[RachMarie]

yeah most 1v1s are TvT because the townies get focused on a point while trying to find the scum and they don't want to let go of it. And they are not worried about how the others see it because they are on a MISSION. Scum even when they try to do stuff to look town usually always have that I have to make sure I don't get lynched in the back of their mind. Which is why most of them play cautious. The few who can pull it off though are pretty amazing players.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I agree. Also when there's a SvT argument usually it's identified as such.

Who do you think is scum other than joe?

[RachMarie]

leaning to GL being the one ON the wagon and as for the 3rd uggh Im still clueless