Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[Vaxkiller]

I thought I quoted your 597 post above, Ryan... I was giving serious thought to changing my vote for Vedith.

Now I'm glad I went after hiplop, because maybe it showed us Vedith's true nature. Still not sure about hiplop/innocentvillager (one or the other is scum)

[RyanK]

All three of them will need a clarification, unless we spot something in any of their previous posts.

Anyway, here's a list of their current status
Hiplop-2 accusations, post 14 as he didn't post as much as he stated he would, andpost 485 for preferring a delay in hammer but doing nothing to cause it.

innocentvillager-1 accusation, trying to partner up with me to make me think he's town.

Vedith-1 accusation Requesting people not to hammer, but placed a pre-hammer vote.

[RyanK]

All three of them will need a clarification, unless we spot something in any of their previous posts.

Anyway, here's a list of their current status
Hiplop-2 accusations, post 14 as he didn't post as much as he stated he would, andpost 485 for preferring a delay in hammer but doing nothing to cause it.

innocentvillager-1 accusation, trying to partner up with me to make me think he's town.

Vedith-1 accusation Requesting people not to hammer, but placed a pre-hammer vote.

Edit: innocentvillager-1 accusation, trying to partner up with me by giving me a town read to make me think he's town.

[Vedith]

Anyway, if you don't want a hammer until Hiplop and others have spoken, I don't think you should even place a vote that risks it. Please explain your actions. Meanwhile, VOTE: Vedith

It's called giving pressure. You'll learn it, don't worry.

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: hiplop

Also, tell me to why you worry about HipLop being hammered here?
Do you suspect that someone would giving that I suggested not to?

HipLop has been a weaker read of mine all game. Null day 1, and I even posted my concerns on him today pointing to him as most likely scum over Maverick / IV.

What's your view on HipLop now?

[hiplop]

Hiplop had that research thing going on and thus asked for the PhantomCobalt hammer to be delayed. Like we seriously IV, well, you've been officially out of V/LA since Monday(??? my memory is fuzzy right now), and have promised content which never happened because either it never happened and/or RyanK's hammer made it not happen (again, no offense). I understand that RL matter always take precedence, but I would have prefer if you extended your V/LA period if that was the case. Kinda left us hanging a bit.

Yeah, that was seriously frustrating T_T. Spent a long time reading phantom cobalt games to absolutely no gain. I can't think of a reason why townIV pushes that there?

Then never follows up with what his research was.

@hiplop, what was your research? You have had plenty of time to whip something up! It must be good! I mean look at the table ryan made in that time... it may not have that useful, but he at least put the effort into it!

I was looking into meta games of phantom to see what his behavior like was here to there. I didn't get a *chance* to post it. Honestly, I'm unsure whether I would have unvoted. He is a really...interesting player to say the least. Hard to read in that he very often appears scummy.

Interested what you think I'm setting up for later, though? Explain that more.

I also think Hoplop is scum because it was looking like he was trying to set something up for later in the game, look through this guys posts too and you will find nothing benefiting town, just fluff! When he votes cobalt he just says this:

[Vaxkiller]

Interested what you think I'm setting up for later, though? Explain that more.

I explained it in this post 481.

It was listed under the less likely option, but with cobalt flipping town seems more likely. The only other option being your just not playing a very good town which seems odd with someone with such experience.

Can you provide any examples of scum hunting from your posts? You mostly just say things like "Yeah I agree with that", or "no I don't think so"

[Firebringer]

Dragon Training Tip #17. Dragon Fighting. You may be asking, should I train my dragon the art of dragon martial arts. Well, do you know it? No? That’s cause it doesn’t exist. You should instead train your dragon the art of the flying dragon. It’s a technique of fighting that has you just breathing fire on your enemy till he dies. You don’t need to be flying to do it. In fact, I don’t know why its not just called “Pyro” or something.

Vote Count 2.02

Reso (L-4):
Vedith (L-3): RyanK,
Vaxkiller(L-4):
RyanK (L-4):
innocentvillager (L-4):
Maverick1102 (L-4):
hiplop (L-2): Vaxkiller, Vedith,

Not Voting (4): Reso, Maverick1102, innocentvillager, hiplop,

With 7 Alive, It Takes 4 to Lynch

Day 2 Ends In (expired on 2016-08-15 02:00:00)

Mod Notes: None.

[Vedith]

Although I apologies for not being on myself.
Quiet town is what scum wants.

IV, when do you think you can put more into this? What's your opinion on the kill last night?
HipLop - Can you give more about your views on people.

[RyanK]

...

1) When/how often do you expect to post?

Likely a few times a day. I'm not too busy for this month! I am known for somewhat sporadic, frantic posting at times which I try to quell for newbie games...but yea!
...

Why did you claim you'll post a few times a day, but you didn't do so. You should definitely know better you don't post at that rate.

Don't find him too mysterious. How about you, hiplop?

Really think hes scum. And it is paining me that I can't find the words as to why

Tell us what makes you think so.

Anyway, if you don't want a hammer until Hiplop and others have spoken, I don't think you should even place a vote that risks it. Please explain your actions. Meanwhile, VOTE: Vedith

It's called giving pressure. You'll learn it, don't worry.

I would rather not risk it though UNVOTE: Vedith. More time=more clearer picture of everyone's behavior=more likelihood of lynching mafia, which is exactly what the mafia wouldn't want.

For now, VOTE: innocentvillager. He may probably be busy with writing flavour for Newbie 1725, but I'll just temperarily suspect him for not responding to post 598. Meanwhile, keep up the marvelous flavour, innocentvillager. It really is good.

Sorry for being really silent today, I've got a large homework pile I would like to finish up so I could be more active tomorrow.

[Vaxkiller]

Quiet town is what scum wants.

This 100%. More people need to be talking besides Ryan, Vedith, and I. Innocent villager and hiplop, we have a lot of questions for you to answer. Answer them and stick around a little for more!

[Maverick1102]

RyanK - That jump on Vedith for the L-1 vote looked far too forced to come from Town. Not a fan of that at all.

Vax is town to me - as much as I dont want to repeat my previous post I simply can't see a scumteam involving Vax killing Ox40.

The Hiplop wagon developed far too easily for it to be entirely town-driven. I think for this reason that Hiplop is inactive town.

[Vedith]

RyanK - That jump on Vedith for the L-1 vote looked far too forced to come from Town. Not a fan of that at all.

Vax is town to me -

as much as I dont want to repeat my previous post I simply can't see a scumteam involving Vax killing Ox40.

The Hiplop wagon developed far too easily for it to be entirely town-driven. I think for this reason that Hiplop is inactive town.

Why do you think X40 was killed?

[Maverick1102]

Upon a quick re-read I suppose my vote is going to go on Ryan or Vedith. I kinda want Ryan because his posts are difficult to get a read on but the hypocritical nature of Vedith's vote on Hiplop earns my vote for today for the time being. Vedith says he doesn't want a hammer yet (intent is fine) but is voting Hiplop who basically implied the same thing in my eyes.

VOTE: Vedith

Ninja'd: I'd have to go through more analysis of X40's posts and reads but that's a wiiiiide road of WIFOM. I think the best way to approach it is look at it as a random kill. I'm awful at NKA and would rather do without it than become entrenched in a WIFOM-y back-and-forth.

[Vedith]

That vote is terrible. For the reasons I mean.
Putting someone to L1, makes them react. Leaving someone on L2 or lower means that there's time for an easy diversion.

The fact that the L1 was removed instantly means that HipLop doesn't have to react at all as he is in no danger. Which was proven during his post of 'catching up'.
He doesn't even mention me or my vote. Doesn't that seem strange that he wouldn't want to confront me there?
Talk to me about his lie early game. You think he is inactive town, do town normally lie over their activity?

Looking at it as a random kill would only imply that less experienced players are scum. I do not know any players that random kill, so I'm not sure how you are going with me as scum and having the X40 as a random kill. It doesn't make sense.

[Maverick1102]

Scum has to be on the Hiplop wagon, since it wasn't a player off the wagon who disrupted it and there was no counterwagon. As such, I'm looking at one of you, Ryan or Vax for scum.

I don't think Vax would have killed his tunneller and I townread him off mostly gut anyway so between you and Ryan I think one of you is scum. Ryan at the end of it all looks like (hilariously) overeager town so I come to you. You voted for hiplop and welcomed intent to hammer on the same basis that he voted for Cobalt. There is no credible reasoning for why your vote is there since you're voting hypocritically which simply isn't something Town!Vedith would do.

Hiplop did say he was going to post between 1-3 times a day. Just because it appears inactive, doesn't mean he's lying. If you go off RL days that we've been in the day phase, he's actually pretty much in that average. There is no case to answer to on Hiplop and I don't see an unposted meta analysis to be all that indicative of alignment.

[Maverick1102]

EBWoP: I clicked IV's ISO rather than Hiplops. Brilliant. Ignore most of that last paragraph on Hiplop's activity.

My read stands though. I find it hard to get and maintain high levels of activity in games and I don't see it as being alignment-indicative.

[Vaxkiller]

EBWoP: I clicked IV's ISO rather than Hiplops. Brilliant. Ignore most of that last paragraph on Hiplop's activity.

My read stands though. I find it hard to get and maintain high levels of activity in games and I don't see it as being alignment-indicative.

Since its only a few of us playing at the moment, I'll ask you mav. Look through hiplops posts real quick, it will not take long... can you find a single post that that shows hiplop himself actively scum-hunting?

[Maverick1102]

Only at the start of the game, fair point. He townhunts more, but some people do that in order to let PoE govern their votes.

Granted, he doesn't have much though. I don't think he's scum but I'm not sold yet on town now. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thoughts on Vedith's hypocritical vote on Hiplop?

[innocentvillager]

Apologies, but I will be V/LA until Monday afternoon. I've been ignoring RL duties/exam week but I'll try to still post maybe once or twice at least.

[Vaxkiller]

Thoughts on Vedith's hypocritical vote on Hiplop?

It seemed very opportunistic to me, just like the day before with cobalt. He orchestrated it the same way too, just taking control of the situation without caring what anyone else thought. My thoughts right now have hiplop and Vedith or innocentvillager and Vedith marked as scum.

A small part of that reason tho is because I can't shake something that reso said earlier:

While going through RyanK's ISO, I actually found his Post #193/Iso #52 pretty interesting, because of how I typically perceive how Newbie games are set up. I am of the understanding that the mafia is typically composed one experienced player and one newer player so the experienced player can more or less guide/teach the newbie on mafia play.

I'm wondering now if I need to let that go however...


@hiplop, is what reso said typically true?

[Vedith]

It seemed very opportunistic to me

My thoughts right now have hiplop and Vedith

Let this just sink in for a second.
My main reason for voting HipLop was because I didn't believe Vax's vote and saw it as distancing. He has proved me right there.

I mean, how on earth can I be voting in an opportunity way on my 'scum buddy'? That would be classed as bussing, not opportunity.

This is most likely a way to take focus away from HipLop and go into LyLo tomorrow with no information than what we have today. I suspect he would suggest HipLop is town going into tomorrow.

[Vaxkiller]

I mean, how on earth can I be voting in an opportunity way on my 'scum buddy'? That would be classed as bussing, not opportunity.

Opportunistic in the sense it makes you appear town when we lynch him and he flips scum.

This is also why I listed the innocent villager as your scum buddy as an option, the problem I have with hiplop vs innocent villager is that innocent villager as at least done A FEW things to appear town, while hiplop has done nothing.

Meanwhile you popped right out of the gate starting with day 2 saying I was scum because of the 0x40 interactions, no one was buying it because they could see through the scum manipulation. Then seeing that no one was interested in your vote, you jumped right onto without any hesitation the hiplop bandwagon to distance yourself from your mistake for voting for me for that obvious scum reasoning.

Now as to your motivation for voting for hiplop as yet to be seen... is he your partner and your willing to let him die to seem more town? Or is innocent your partner and this is the perfect opportunity!

[Firebringer]

reso has been prodded.

[reso]

I apologize for the lack of activity. My internet has been very jittery as of late. I would type up a post, and the internet would go down around when I try to submit it. It's seems to have be stablized at the moment, but who knows what state it will be in a couple of hours. Another reason why I should be typing these sort of thing in Wordpad before bringing it onto the site.

I've previously mentioned in my #585 that I don't think that Vaxkiller is scum. It's more or less the same reason as Maverick's #589. For the same sort of reason, just with a different set of people, I think Maverick isn't scum because I am still alive. The end of Day 1 ended with me being particular biased against Maverick, especially for this general Day 1 attitude against people that didn't think the way he did. I think it would be fair to say that if Cobalt flipped town, it would have easy to assume that I would continue to go after Maverick. I realize that both the Vaxkiller not-scum and the Maverick not-scum are WIFOM arguments, but I think arguing about the WIFOM nature of such arguments are a moot point, so I decide to go with one side of the argument and deal with the consequences afterwards.

I think my vote will be on RyanK this day as well. Looking at his patterns, it's clear that he lacks conviction with most of his votes because he's so wishy-washy wtih where he places them. The one post with conviction, the Cobalt hammer, was done so without taking into consideration the requests put forth by the IC (though I realize that RyanK had initially used a timer for a deadline of the hammer). It seems to me that he was also aware of me thinking the Cobalt case was blown out of proportion, as he reflects to in his #581. I get the feeling he choose to play the vote-precautionary-safe townie whenever he can, and then not when it better suits the situation. It was the same for today as well. Hiplop got to L-1. Everyone here knows better than to quickhammer, and even then he pulls his vote off of hiplop. Can also be perceived as an unwilling to trust the general populace.

As usual, there's still not much from hiplop and IV. And for IV, we're going to have to wait until Monday. I honestly would like to see the both of them replaced instead of us having to wait (no offense, guys).

I don't have anything on Vedith at the moment. I haven't done a readthrough on him yet. I will try to follow up with it either later today or tomorrow. But I do have some things for Vedith to answer or look at.

1) Could you explain your reasoning of 'If Phantom is town, then Reso is probably town' from #497? Initially, I took it for granted, but looking back at it, I'm not understanding your reasoning. Could you elaborate on this?

2) In your #588, you mentioned that RyanK gave Phantom a chance to look town, and Phantom didn't take it. I'm disagree and am inclined to think that Phantom simply gave up. My reasoning for this is 0x40's #449:

So you're going to hammer me even though you think I'll flip town? The fuck

Yeah. A d1 40% scum lynch is pretty good in my opinion. Does anyone know what the average for d1 scum lynches here on MS is?

People were going to lynch him even if some/one of them thought there was a better chance of him flipping town. If I were going to be lynched for that same sort of reason, I'd just give up as well.

VOTE: RyanK