No, and I want to discuss this more. Now that we have an indefinite deadline extension, it's in our best interest to go over the game with a fine toothed comb. I've caught up now and I'm townreading Hoopla. In fact, the only two people I'd bet the game on being town are you and Hoopla. If you want, I'm happy to go over your reasoning so we can talk about it more in depth.In post 1240, Grendel wrote:@Blank, BBmolla, Wingback Will any of you consider voting Hoopla???
In post 926, BBmolla wrote:lynch masquerade
In post 975, BBmolla wrote:I don't know where the other scum are, I just really think its masquerade for today.
In post 1015, BBmolla wrote:can we just lynch masquerade
In post 1106, BBmolla wrote:I still think masq is scum and don't know partner nor care for today
He doesn't give a single reason why. He makes no attempt to figure out why. He never scumhunts, he never considers what happens if Masq is town, who else is scum, nothing. Just repeats "lynch Masquerade" like a fucking robot. I don't even know why he voted Masquerade in the first place given his only interaction with Masquerade on D1 was a positive one.In post 1116, BBmolla wrote:I just want masq to die
I think you got the order of events wrong. Egg unvoted before Hoopla did, putting Mask at L-2, Hoopla put Mask at L-3 before my vote came in putting Mask back at L-2. So I would not say that Mask was in any immediate danger of being lynched since Hoopla keeping her vote would mean I put Mask at L-1 and that is it. At that point nobody knew that I was the vigilante so they had no reason to hammer Mask, and my vote alone couldn’t hammer. So I think that Hoopla’s fear of a Mask!vig getting lynched is pretty unfounded. It even seemed that most people were holding back the lynch to get more information from Mask.In post 1278, Wingback wrote:@Grendel,from your Post 1209, it seems like the main reasons you are scumreading Hoopla for are: 1) That she unvoted Masquerade too soon despite Masq not claiming whether she used her shot. 2) That she was too quick to accept that Masq's claim was provable despite Masq never revealing whether he used his shot or not. 3) That she said a roleblocker was unlikely, speculated that there could be a rolestopper instead and used that to scumread Elyse. 4) That Hoopla suspected BBMolla at the start of D3.
1) Hoopla's unvote makes sense if she didn't want a potential town vig to be lynched before she had time to think through and analyze the game. I see it more as Hoopla being cautious and covering her bases since Masq was at L-1 before Egg unvoted and you had already stated intent to hammer in few hours. Hoopla could always revote Masquerade if she still thought Masq was scum after thinking it through so I see the unvote as pro-town and not scummy at all. It seemed she unvoted to give Masq time to claim without being hammered at any second before she could come back to claim.
Ordinarily I would agree with this logic, yet Mask was being very reluctant to reveal any information aside from being a X-shot vigilante. His lack of openness seems like it should have been a red flag to everybody. He evaded answer weather or not he used a shot, and that "only scum would benefit from this info" was a major cop out. Also, there is still the issue that Hoopla put words in Masks mouth in post 1025 where she basically said that if Mask does not say anything then he has a shot left. Sort of like she was talking for him to generate information for town. Why was Mask not against this? Maybe he saw that Hoopla had a plan and did not want to botch it?2) Masq claimed 1X vig and there was only one kill on night one. It seems reasonable to wonder if Masq was saving his shot for a later day. While it's entirely possible for a hypothetical town-Masq to have shot the same target as the scum, the odds are much lower than the probability that Masq was holding onto the shot for later use. Hoopla enquiring about it seemed like a way to make the most optimal move. One thing I think you should realize is thatyou knew Masq was scum as soon as he claimed vig.He claimed your role. But from Hoopla's standpoint, having no idea whether Masq was scum fake-claiming or whether we had just run up the town vig, the logical choice was to wait and see if it was confirmable and play it safe. This style matches up with the rest of Hoopla's play in this game like pushing D1 lynches based on compromise as opposed to her reads. It shows that she's not ultra-confident in her own reads, so how can we expect her to suddenly be confident enough in a Masq scumread to say "to hell with a vig claim, you are dying today!" Hoopla's logic is actually fairly standard when dealing with claims. The harm from lynching a town vig outweigh the harm of delaying a scum lynch by a day. If scum get run up and claim PR, the best move is to leave them aside and continue scumhunting elsewhere since there are still other scum to catch.
Technically she was wrong on two accounts on there being a role stopper, and there not being a role blocker. Anyway, I think that the role stopper speculation took away from the thought that there might be a role blocker.3) Clearly Hoopla was likely wrong about there not being a roleblocker. I don't think her logic was too far out there. Mods dislike using roleblockers when there are other roleblocking roles out there because they make night actions confusing and she backed that up with stats from past games. That we winded up with a likely roleblocker here doesn't make her scum. Her rolestopper speculation made sense to me at the time I read it and it being wrong doesn't make her more likely scum than town throwing our random ideas on what the setup could be to help solve the game.
It was not about BBmolla himself, it was about the play Hoopla used at the start of the day. My issue was that I felt that optimal scum play at the start of this day would be to claim that whomever Cmtic1 visited could be scum to remove the possibility of their being another confirmed town player in the game. And that is exactly what Hoopla did. She started pointing out that scum could be invited to the neighborhood even if Cmitc1 was dead, and that there is no reason for the neighborhood to be created if Cmitc1 was dead. So she was trying to remove the possibility of BBmolla being confirmed town!4) Whatever BBMolla's alignment, consider what he did in this game. I'mbeyond stunnedthat he has 130 posts because I barely remember a single thing he said or read he pushed. When he got an early wagon on him, he melted down completely and got townread and the wagon went away. Then he parked his vote on Vedith for the rest of the day until the very end where he switched to Blankface. D2, all of a sudden, from nowhere, he started pushing Masq. Here's something I would really appreciate you doing and letting me know what you think: ISO BBMolla. Ctrl+F "Masq." Let me know what you see. You'll see on day one a single quote from Masq (Post 326) where BBMolla agrees with Masquerade. The second time BBMolla mentions Masquerade is during D2 in Post 858 where he naked-votes her. Where's the read progression? It looks like he pulled that read out of thin air.
He doesn't give a single reason why. He makes no attempt to figure out why. He never scumhunts, he never considers what happens if Masq is town, who else is scum, nothing. Just repeats "lynch Masquerade" like a fucking robot. I don't even know why he voted Masquerade in the first place given his only interaction with Masquerade on D1 was a positive one.
Hoopla's also completely correct that BBMolla is happy to be townread and is skating by. Listing out all his posts makes me think he's more likely scum but I'm not even sure. Regardless, it makes complete sense that Hoopla is concerned that she may have been wrong, and then proceeded to check every angle and possibility for how BBMolla could be recruited so she can safely eliminate him as a suspect. So, I don't see Hoopla's suspicion of BBMolla as scum-indicative at all.