New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 9.00

Not Voting:

Zachstralkita, Almost50, implosion

With

3

alive,

2

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-08-19 09:42:20).

[Zachstralkita]

Oh, so what the fuck?

[Zachstralkita]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

[shannon]

Nooooo! Avenge me, townies!

[Almost50]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I jailed implosion as we had agreed. He was the only one left for me to jail.

I'll be frank: If YOU were the 1-shot strongman then you've done a hell of a job. This would explain why the first night I jailed you there was no kill, but then how did you guess I was going to jail you the next night too?

If it's implosion, he certainly wasn't a 1-shot or he was really really really lucky picking his targets.

I know it's not me, but I can understand how the town player of you two can get confused, and I won't blame them if they do end up voting me along with scum.

I certainly won't be voting either of you before I've re--read the whole thread once more and figured out "who said what why". From a recent skim through I noted Dunn would have voted you over implosion, but Transcend, Boem & kraska would have gone for implosion. Wake would have voted me though, and podoboq may have been on me or implosion but probably not you.

Anyway, because there's definitely something I'm missing here I think I need more time to try and figure it out, and if not then it'd be like a penalty kick. Scum now feel the goal is too wide for them to defend, while I see it as small as a needle hole!

[Zachstralkita]

So A50, what was your actual fucking role? Did scum have a JK /RB, or two JKs?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I jailed implosion as we had agreed. He was the only one left for me to jail.

I'll be frank: If YOU were the 1-shot strongman then you've done a hell of a job. This would explain why the first night I jailed you there was no kill, but then how did you guess I was going to jail you the next night too?

If it's implosion, he certainly wasn't a 1-shot or he was really really really lucky picking his targets.

I know it's not me, but I can understand how the town player of you two can get confused, and I won't blame them if they do end up voting me along with scum.

I certainly won't be voting either of you before I've re--read the whole thread once more and figured out "who said what why". From a recent skim through I noted Dunn would have voted you over implosion, but Transcend, Boem & kraska would have gone for implosion. Wake would have voted me though, and podoboq may have been on me or implosion but probably not you.

Anyway, because there's definitely something I'm missing here I think I need more time to try and figure it out, and if not then it'd be like a penalty kick. Scum now feel the goal is too wide for them to defend, while I see it as small as a needle hole!

My only question is if this

I am a backup Nurse.
I know there is a Nurse and a Doctor in the game.
I had thought my role told me they were a

town

nurse and doctor, but it turns out that they could be any alignment.
At the very least, I can confirm their claim, which is likely to be town, imo.

post by Varsoon leaves it open for implosion to be scum. Otherwise his role confirms implosion and this is check for you.

[Zachstralkita]

checkmate. checkmate. LMAO

[Almost50]

My answer is "I don't know", but here's an excerpt from the wiki (page: Normal Game) under "Roles" and it says "Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include: Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, .. etc .. etc..

What did catch my attention is the "with or without primary role present". It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.

However, it is still weird, and what's weirder is the vibes I'm getting from your posts today. You are not exactly you tbh. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I it feels like you feel victorious already. I'm still undecided and I would like for implosion to come share his views at this point. If he IS a doctor, and IS town, then you -sir- have played an awesome game thus far, but you need to convince him to vote me or me to vote him still, which won't be easy. I'd hate to come this far and then vote for the wrong person.

[implosion]

Back from work. Fwiw, I protected A50, but I mostly couldn't think of any conceivable reason that who I'd protect could matter.

It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.

This isn't mechanically possible. A backup nurse's role is that when a nurse disappears, they become a nurse. Varsoon, as he stated, turned from a backup nurse into a nurse when the doctor died. If there were no nurse in the setup, then there would be no nurse to change into a doctor to cause Varsoon to change into a nurse. I am 100% role confirmed. Given the jail on me, the only way I can possibly be scum here is if I am a mafia nurse strongman. Which I know for a fact isn't the case but I think is pretty objectively clearly not the case.

I'm planning to put in a good amount of effort this weekend looking over things. This is my first 3p lylo in probably years. I really don't want to fuck it up :X.

[Zachstralkita]

My answer is "I don't know", but here's an excerpt from the wiki (page: Normal Game) under "Roles" and it says "Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include: Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, .. etc .. etc..

What did catch my attention is the "with or without primary role present". It might be weird, but it's possible to to have had a doctor + back up nurse without the presence of a nurse, so when the doctor goes then the backup nurse would become a nurse (i.e. backup doctor) without the presence of a doctor.

However, it is still weird, and what's weirder is the vibes I'm getting from your posts today. You are not exactly you tbh. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I it feels like you feel victorious already. I'm still undecided and I would like for implosion to come share his views at this point. If he IS a doctor, and IS town, then you -sir- have played an awesome game thus far, but you need to convince him to vote me or me to vote him still, which won't be easy. I'd hate to come this far and then vote for the wrong person.

I don't really have to prove anything, I am VT after all

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 9.01

Not Voting:

Zachstralkita, Almost50, implosion

With

3

alive,

2

to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-08-19 09:42:20).

[implosion]

I perused some isos over the course of today but didn't really get anywhere because I was distracted by other shiny objects. I'll do more tomorrow most likely.

[Almost50]

I'll probably have more time for this tomorrow as well.

[Zachstralkita]

I got prodded? Holy shit.

Yeah guys, if I'm using logic here it can only be A50.

[Zachstralkita]

mate its time to olbiterate ye

[Almost50]

You say it's me. I say it's implosion, and he says it's you. The problem is I don't have the balls to cast a vote just in case I was missing something. This was another reason way I wanted to be lynched first yesterday. I simply hate to be in LyLo's and IF I was wrong about implosion and he flipped town (which means you're the scum) you probably would have still let me live to do exactly the same thing you're doing now.

Suffice it to say I don't trust either of you right now, and I can't find anything that convinces me otherwise.

Tell me something, Zack: How come you've always defended me all game long and never doubted me until today? Also, why would I clear you and keep you alive, and then come today to declare I also jailed implosion last night? If I'm scum (thus by default I'm NOT a JK to begin with), why clear you and off someone else like Varsoon? In my mind, the right play would've been to kill YOU and let Varsoon live (or -generally speaking- kill the clears and leave the unconfirmed to end game).

Finally, why am I (and implosion) are still both alive? More to it: why would either of us kill Transcend? We both are claimed PRs and -thus- motion detected on either of us is no big deal. Now who is the only one -still alive- who would benefit from a motion detection death? Also, why would I kill Dunn who was obviously going to target a VT next? Did I need more time to get more clears before I get to LyLo??

Let's go back to Dunn's 306 and my 325. Assuming you're town, Dunn had not voted a single scum player up to that point (even the two he only FoS'd but didn't vote flipped town). You yourself said something about it being a bad read list and you were right, but -in retrospect- you may have known already who scum were and you didn't like being the only one at the very bottom. I mean, your own phrasing was "That mid to lower half of it sucks", hinting you approved of most of the "top half" at the time (please correct me if I'm reading it the wrong way).

I've also had a look at your votes and you voted Varsoon, Wake, shannon, Dunn & Wake (again) before you started attacking Titus. Then you went back to shannon, then implosion, then implosion again after having unvoted, then you voted Nos, then back to Dunn.

Still on D1 you voted Vedith, back to implosion, back to Vedith (that slot had been obviously a burden on the scum team with 2 players in a row failing to town it up), then Dunn, implosion, Vedith, implosion, Vedith, Performer, Vedith, performer, Vedith (and went to bed to come back and find 6 more votes have been added that lead to his lynch.)

From this I could probably deduce you were struggling to decide between (a) bussing your inactive partner and (b) hoping that they somehow can redeem themselves and redirect the wagon elsewhere. Otherwise you were voting mostly town (with the exception of a one-time vote on Titus).

On the other hand, I refuse to see your play all through the game (in general) as scum-driven. It really makes no sense to me. From doubting the Titus mason claim on D1.. why would scum!Zack expose his scum partner like that? Why so early too?

The thing is Titus herself doesn't like bussing and she did vote you twice early on D1, so you probably aren't her partner.

In short, VC analysis of D1 suggests you're scum, but your interactions with Titus suggest otherwise.

Implosion -on the other hand- voted sickofit, Zach, boem, Titus, Mirhawk, PV, Vedith & AGar, so 3 of the scum team on D1 (not counting you), or 4 town, 3 scum and 1 unknown vs your 5 town, 2 scum and 1 unknown, although he wasn't on the Vedith wagon that lead to the lynch (and neither was I).

Here is the final wagon on Vedith:

Vedith (10): AGar, Performer, PeregrineV, Zachstralkita, beeboy, Titus, Transcend, Boem_u_dusi, shannon, Dunnstral

Everybody except Titus is flipped town, and you are the only one still alive. Does it look more likely to you that only one scum bussed there??

In light of this I'm reconsidering my stance on you, tbh. Your most recent "I don't need to prove a thing" is also bugging me. We're in LyLo, and you do need to convince me you're town if we're going to win this, but I fear if things stay the way they are I might be persuaded to vote you over implosion and hope that it's the right decision.

[Zachstralkita]

Tell me something, Zack: How come you've always defended me all game long and never doubted me until today? Also, why would I clear you and keep you alive, and then come today to declare I also jailed implosion last night? If I'm scum (thus by default I'm NOT a JK to begin with), why clear you and off someone else like Varsoon? In my mind, the right play would've been to kill YOU and let Varsoon live (or -generally speaking- kill the clears and leave the unconfirmed to end game).

Probably cause I'm on some serious drugs.

You're really aiming in the wrong direction going at me, though. I want you to know that.

So I want to vote imploder.

[Zachstralkita]

on the 1.4% chance he's a SCUM NURSE JOAT STRONGMAN 6-SHOT

[Zachstralkita]

Because you're right, I have seen you as town all game. I only stopped seeing you that way because logic.

[Zachstralkita]

CONVINCE you I'm town? I've been blatant town since Day 1. I pushed for a Nosferatu lynch when people weren't even talking about him. What fucking reason do I have to bus my partner that early? I also gunned for Airick's lynch on D4, was it?

[Zachstralkita]

If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.

[Almost50]

If you looked at me and Titus interactions when we were voting each other and you DON'T see TvT, then I can't help you.

Oh, shut! Titus did flip TOWN!

Sorry for the mix up. Can't even say explicitly why I thought she flipped scum, but I know you're bright enough to take a wild guess!!

OK, nut that makes your voting record on D1 even worse. I do agree though that overall yours looked like town play, but so did implosion's to a great extent.

We probably should wait for him to show up and give his own speech, so maybe he can shed some light on this situation.

[implosion]

I honestly think that the only evidence that really should be needed in favor of me being town is that I'm role-confirmed; unless you think that the mafia team consisted of a neapolitan, a 2-shot commuter, a jailkeeper and a

strongman nurse

I cannot be scum. I honestly think that scumteam is just objectively absurd.

I think my play also does speak to me being town, but I really think the foremost thing here is that my role being confirmed makes the jailkeep on me mean more than the jailkeep on Zach, similar to how shannon's motion detector result made the jailkeep on her mean more than the jailkeep on Zach. I think even the scumteam having a nurse here would be just pointless from a design standpoint (giving scum a 2-shot commuter, a jailkeeper as opposed to a roleblocker, AND a nurse against a single town killing role?)

As for my play, if I am scum then literally the [/i]only[/i] time I called

any

of my partners town was when I listed Nosferatu as a townread, specifically my

weakest

townread out of a set consisting of most of the player list, earlyish d1. Since then I called Vedith scum (I just thought AGar was scum more strongly), I was I think by far the primary one pushing Mirhawk as scum when if I were scum I easily could have swung a fair amount of weight onto a performer push instead of gimping the performer wagon from the get-go, and I think I was the first person to say we should look at Airick after Mirhawk. If we're judging on the basis of play I think I'm fairly obviously town on that basis as well.

A50, I agree with you that a lot of Zach's play appears town motivated. I've had a town read on him for most of the game, after all. But I really am somewhat confident that he's scum over you. Your rhetoric right now looks a whole lot more genuine to me than his rhetoric has the past few days. I don't think that him in particular having bussed early d1 is a towntell. Just look at the way he plays. His personality just screams to me "I bus as scum." And I didn't really realize this until recently because, well, the last few days I haven't really had time to formulate my thoughts coherently because we kept lynching extremely quickly. But Zach reads to me as the kind of player who would just try to take the game into his own hands as scum and not really give a shit about his partners, especially when

all three of them were lurking throughout d1.

From your point of view at least, I think on the basis of play alone, both me and Zach have pushed on scum a lot, but there are other better reasons to think that I'm town over him.

Anyway my bus is getting here so I'll have to elucidate more later. But don't rush this day.

[Zachstralkita]

Zach might actually be mafia who bussed hard

Zach is normally completely (like 90%) wrong on who is scum so it's weird that they've been falling left and right - heavy bussing suspected

Even Dunn couldn't believe my reads were that good this game. And they WEREN'T even that good.

In light of this I'm reconsidering my stance on you, tbh. Your most recent "I don't need to prove a thing" is also bugging me. We're in LyLo, and you do need to convince me you're town if we're going to win this, but I fear if things stay the way they are I might be persuaded to vote you over implosion and hope that it's the right decision.

Please tell me detective, why would I intentionally do that when I could have, you know, played like I played the rest of the game where I didn't get lynched? What do I benefit from bluffing hard when there's no need to and would decrease the chances of me surviving?

[Zachstralkita]

I fucked up because I helped speedlynch Boem and kraska. I effectively canceled out the advantage we had.


Why the fuck would I be so reckless as scum when

caution

is the exact reason the last scum has made it to the final 3? It doesn't make sense. As scum, the objective is to not get lynched, not to appear town. And you can see that implosion is trying to not get lynched in his post.


implosion wouldn't have wrote those 3 extra paragraphs if he were town. Varsoon's role along with Peregrine's flip should have been the only reason he needed. Instead, he also says " but there are other better reasons to think that I'm town over him.", which is excessive and seems paranoid. It looks like he's just covering all his bases, but if he was honestly town there would be literally no reason to do that.