Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

[innocentvillager]

Fine I'll respond to Zorb bc these are quick and easy to respond to

It's practically begging for inexperienced town to start talking about PRs and you should know that.

It didn't need to be. I have a read, I out it. I didn't think people would start talking about PRs. People would've asked me why I'm not considering foe. I'd say for reasons I don't want to talk about. There's nothing scummy about that, and your case here is garbage. It looks like you're just entrapped in confbias here trying to find scumtells from ordinary stuff like me giving a read.

Tbh, I'm starting to like you more for this point. This kind of looks like something town would come up with and not scum. Scum would've just left the issue alone I think, unless you really ARE that good of a scum.

As for me calling my post pro-town, there's no way you can scumread me for calling that post protown and not scumread you for naming off every single action of yours D1 as protown in that rant. "Shape of the game" or not (why does that even matter?), you can't have it benefit you both times. PLUS, I wouldn't have needed to call my post protown if you hadn't literally announced your scumread on me for it.

[Nachomamma8]

I've honestly tried but do you see how much time and effort getting into these wall wars with you takes up? Have ever looked at one of your own walls? It's no wonder that I don't spent a lot of in-thread time engaging other players!

If you have a limited amount of time, then prioritize better; if Zorblag's posts are the most productive thing that you can respond to, then fine, but if they're not than it's no one's fault but your own if you are focusing too heavily on them.

[innocentvillager]

I townread foe because Zaicon replaced him in late into Night 1 without pausing the Night to have night discussion. Literally foe would've gotten no time to talk with partner in the queue, and letting one scum just decide the kill by themselves without the replacement is kind of silly.

Why did you wait to out this reasoning?

I just didn't want to explain it since I don't want to have to publicly explain tells based off of game mechanics, since it kind of compromises the integrity of the game. I didn't expect to have been heavily scumread by ecane and Zorblag for it, so I got annoyed and just explained why. I didn't even consider any of this PR bullshit argumentation would arise.

[innocentvillager]

if Zorblag's posts are the most productive thing that you can respond to, then fine

If I don't respond to his walls he'll just keep pestering me for a response anyway. Plus I hate ignoring people and getting ignored.

[innocentvillager]

Troll how would you compare his play here to the game all three of us were in Newbie 1222

I can't see town!Rach logically actually curious about comparing my play here to 4 years ago.

Literally read the game, it's IV the VI fucking the town all the way to lylo

[Zorblag]

@RachMarie, that's not the one you asked about, but, like I said earlier, I don't find his play particularly similar. His play here has been largely focused on me and there's nothing comparable in the other game. I didn't see the things that I'm finding scummy here and he was much more reactive at the start. Here he's doing more to lead lynches than I think he was there.

I read him in isolation (as I read you in isolation.) You're saying that you think there are more similarities than I'm seeing. Care to elaborate on them?

@innocentvillager, I don't buy that you thought leaving an "I know he's town" tell hanging mysteriously wouldn't lead to PR speculation in a newbie game. From what you're doing recently that's right in your wheelhouse for level of sophistication. And like I say, when you're starting to say that the way you're playing the game benefits town (activity level, proactive play, drawing people in,) I'm fine if you start calling your plays pro-town. That's not what you did. You said that a single post which you have every reason to make as scum is your most pro-town post of the day. Again, you're using a false equivalency here. Your play has directly hurt town, not helped it, and you're trying to call town credit for that. My play has helped town and I'm pointing that out.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nachomamma8]

@innocentvillager, given that you're claiming that's you're most pro-town post today I should know why you think that your post was pro-town regardless of my alignment, that's just an experience thing. And the post is pro-town-ish in isolation in that it helps if it comes from town and does no damage coming from scum, though NAI as any player aware enough to make it could react that way regardless of alignment after ecane's post.

This is the same argument I have against your "pro-town actions" and you keep dismissing it. Way to use your own logic against yourself.

This is an argument that I could see for certain things being NAI, though, but I don't see how this is equal to a case.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't buy that you thought leaving an "I know he's town" tell hanging mysteriously wouldn't lead to PR speculation in a newbie game.

I do.
Do you find that accusing players of rolefishing is a pretty consistent tell for you?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm posting these walls largely to respond to the garbage cases and replies you keep put out there about me. If you don't want to have to deal with them stop giving me the nonsense to respond that you've been giving me and go find scum. Or sit here and complain about the mean old Troll who types things that compel you ignore everything else, because that's clearly what town would do.

well this isn't a scum Zorblag post.

[Zorblag]

@Nachomamma8, I don't think that accusations or rolefishing are particularly more likely to come from either alignment. I think it's more player dependent.

I do think that innocentvillager shouldn't be at all surprised that someone in a newbie game thought that he was implying cop though. There's no reason to leave that one mysterious as town.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma8, you don't seem to be fully caught up yet, but when you get a chance, is foedufafa still the right place for your vote? Who's skating by and not getting the attention they should be right now (maybe that's foedufafa? Maybe it's you?)

Jaack, ecaine, maybe Foxbird.
Most of the discussion that I've seen is mostly centered around you/Rach as the flavor of the day suspects which I really don't see flipping scum in any world and some side IV dishes that seem appealing but don't inspire confidence in the way that I'd like them to.

[Nachomamma8]

I do think that innocentvillager shouldn't be at all surprised that someone in a newbie game thought that he was implying cop though. There's no reason to leave that one mysterious as town.

I don't think he should be surprised that someone in a newbie game thought he was implying cop.
I don't think he should be surprised if anyone anywhere just thought that was a crappy cop breadcrumb.

I don't see it as a deliberate attempt to out power roles, though.

[RachMarie]

I love you Nacho

[Nachomamma8]

Can we lynch this holy shit I don't town-Rach is this bad

What's bad about it?
The meat of your case on Zorblag seems to be that he's really, really pro-town, which is mostly a nonsense case to me and not really a case that needs more evidence than "this is how Zorblag plays" to refute, but, again, it's possible that I'm missing hidden depth that's been posted in the lost pages I haven't gotten around to yet.

[Zorblag]

@Nachomamma8, as a complete aside, how is it that both you and RachMarie keep adding that extra i into ecane's name?

As a direct issue, do you still think foedufafa is the most likely scum?

For innocentvillager's post, it doesn't have to be likely to catch. It just has to be hanging out there as bait in case someone bites. Again, why do that as town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RachMarie]

I guess it is more his game here is not like the more recent town games he has been in with me (Inno I mean)

and PoE

I just feel really good that both troll and Nacho are town. I feel that inno pushing so hard a scum read on one of my most solid town reads, the one who actually brought life to this game again just feels so scummy that it just makes me want to lynch him NOW

[Foxbird]

I find this game a bit hard to follow due to the big walls and the amount of meta arguments brought up, but my current thoughts are these:

For a while (actually for most of D2) I vaguely thought Zorblag vs. Inno was TvS, but I wasn't sure who the S was.
These recent interactions actually seem TvT to me - while I can see where people are coming from with their scumreads on Inno, I think he is town. The frustration seems genuine and despite the situation being convoluted, his thought processes seem coherent - something that seems hard to fake as scum. It's possible, I guess, but I don't see that here.

I'm still thinking Rach is scum. As inno said, her recent reactions seem pretty fake. I also don't like how she relies on Nacho so much despite him not being very active for most of the game, and he is one of her highest townreads. It seems to mostly rely on meta and I don't think meta is that infallible.
That said, I'm not really seeing Nacho scum either? But associative tells aren't that useful to make pre-flip anyway.

pedit: that is a lot of text all of a sudden 0_0

pedit 2: LET ME POST

[RachMarie]

oops in my case Im 70% blind

I will try to be more careful I dont like misspelling peeps names even user names

[RachMarie]

lets put it this way

Scum Nacho buses the he double hockey stick out of his scum buddy even if the scum buddy is the scum PR I know because he has done it to me when we were scum together.

Scum Nacho has no qualms squashing me like a bug and getting me lynched when I am town as well.


Town Nacho really makes an effort to find the interactions and get a real read on people. He also town reads me pretty solidly. Sometimes this leads to me feeling very guilty the few times he was town and I was scum.

[foedufafa]

Are you 100% confident in your town read on Nacho?

[RachMarie]

100% no

85 % yes

maybe 90%

[RachMarie]

only thing I give a 100% read to is a flip or a confirmed town by something like a cop innocent or mod cofirmed townie something like that.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma8, as a complete aside, how is it that both you and RachMarie keep adding that extra i into ecane's name?

As a direct issue, do you still think foedufafa is the most likely scum?

For innocentvillager's post, it doesn't have to be likely to catch. It just has to be hanging out there as bait in case someone bites. Again, why do that as town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I blame you and Rach for the ecane misspellings

I do think Foe is the most likely scum. I think that the case on you is ridiculous, I think the case on Rach ignores her town baseline, and I think that while the case on IV has merit, blitzing after you and calling Foe town for being replaced during the night (which I think is a bad assumption to make) is unlike most scum openings that I've seen. I'd rather vote Foe.

I can see IV thinking that he has an angleshooty reason for clearing a 0 poster as town and trying to sell it in the way that he did; the alternative where he's scum and he's rolefishing and was using that as his excuse is far more ridiculous in my mind.

[Nachomamma8]

It seems to mostly rely on meta and I don't think meta is that infallible.

This doesn't seem relevant to Rach's read on me.

[Nachomamma8]

Are you 100% confident in your town read on Nacho?

Why ask this question?