Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

[Nachomamma8]

And also, why does Foe seem town to you?

[Nachomamma8]

My strongest case for Rach-town mostly centers around how she is treating the push on her. I understand that she is more detached in this game than she has been in other games and I understand that it doesn't really feel like she's been pushing for finding scum, but I think that to lynch her for that reasoning is to join a long line of people who have mislynched her for similar reasons, and, as a result, I really feel like her frustration at getting mislynched yet again seems pretty real and genuine and I'm not sure it's something that I could see her faking as scum.

These are the posts I'm referring to:

I dont know how to convince you I am town. All I ask is you and Nacho find the scum. I would have liked to spend more time playing with you both, but clearly Nacho is the only one town readcing me and I know inno will hammer even though he would rather have you lynched.

I am VT

Im going with foe as scum and possibly inno, if not inno it is in the newbies maybe ecane or I may be wrong about foxbird.
Trust Nacho

This post seems strongly town to me; the vibe of "giving up" feels very genuine here and if she is giving up as scum I don't know why she wouldn't claim a power role instead of a VT. I find the "I would have liked to spend more time playing with you both, but clearly Nacho is the only one townreading me" to be a strong emotional appeal to be coming from a scum player and one extraordinarily unlikely to be coming from Rach as scum; yes, she plays to her win condition as scum, but she feels guilty fooling people much less throwing out an emotional appeal of this strength, and I certainly don't feel like she would be capable of putting something like this out after she hasn't played scum for a year and a half.

no it is town giving up

I clearly am going to be lynched and I wanted to get what info I could to help town out there

the one thing I will not do is self hammer though. Though I have been tempted since you all are so sure I am scum

Except for Nacho

and that is one of the reasons I keep coming back to inno sigh hes pushing my lynch awfully hard. And he has been in several games with me.

You Troll, on the other hand this is only the second game and mostly it was you and me in the dead thread talking. So I canunderstand you not seeing this is my typical town game.

The fact that my typical town game gets me lynched like 75% of the time in either D 1 or D 2
The fact that I claimed x shot cop in a diffusion of power game and still got lynched by 7 townies.
The fact that I am almost never nked, especially on N 1 or N 2.

The "I was tempted to self-hammer since all of you were so sure that I am scum" is the type of town mindset that I think is pretty prevalent from townies who are close to death; it's fairly draining to have everyone suspect you of being scum constantly when you aren't, and, again, since she isn't scum and she very rarely AtEs as scum, would be pretty surprised with a post like this coming from Rach!scum.

I like that part of her scumread on inno is that "he should be able to read me better" as she's going down, as did I like how she talked about why she didn't expect Zorblag to be able to read her and brought up how she gets lynched 75% of the time in early game, never nightkilled, gets lynched by all town wagons even after claiming cop, again, if she was scum, she would being extraordinarily heavy handed with AtE in this point in time when it isn't her style at all whereas as town the frustration of the cycle repeating itself yet again does make complete and total sense.

I TOLD YOU

Nacho is town Nacho

This post was after I showed up and I said that I still wasn't reading her as scum, this makes sense based on the reasoning that she laid out earlier (I'd be likely to push her if I was scum regardless of my alignment), and it's a nice reaction of relief that she's not wrong on me and that I am actually town.

I am aware that making a town case on someone without touching on their scumhunting in the game is a bit unconventional (and before the question is asked, yes I do think that the scumhunting she's done this game is genuine even if it's been a bit more sparse than her usual), but the reasons why I am confident in her being town are mostly due to how she's responding to the push on her emotionally. Yes, the game of Mafia is

mostly

a logical one, but sometimes you have to get into someone's head and decide if you think that the emotions they are feeling and the emotions they are putting into thread are real and if they can be coming from scum. I think they are real and I don't think that they can be coming from scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Inno was unnecessary stalling with his reasoning on why he is so sure Foe is town, which turned out to be just a bad reasoning, and I don't see how misguiding like that helps town. It was obviosuly not stopping Foe from getting lynched, which he implied it would. Therefore, there was literally no need for him to be waiting to out that reasoning if he's town.
He is obviously not getting lynched today. A no lynch is probably not in our best interests. From Rach and foe, Rach seems scummier. If Rach gets lynched today and she flips scum they yeah, Inno-Rach team is probably not happening. More I'm reading Rach's posts though, more scummy they seem. She seems to be avoiding a hell of a lot stuff, and acknowledging all those that I probably wouldn't mind much not being acknowledged.

And actually, probably will get into this a little more:

I hate this post. In this post you lay out a very clear case for IV being scum and you show pretty decent conviction in believing that he is scum. You then immediately lay that conviction aside (which I feel is unnatural) to say that he is never getting lynched today; do you say that simply because you made a case once and then you didn't post again to push it? Why haven't you even tried to address or figure out why people are reading him as town? You then move from IV as your top suspect in this post to Rach as your top suspect and pretty freely acknowledge that they probably aren't scum together; what on earth is this about? If you were town, I don't think you'd be so happy to drop your IV read and move to Rach; it looks like you're taking advantage of the Rach wagon because it's there and will resume pushing your IV case once Rach flips town.

It also really bothers me that you didn't even acknowledge my Foe case; you asked for it, I know you saw it since this forum doesn't let you post without looking at the posts above you, but you didn't even see it worthy of a "hey Nacho I see your case I'll respond to it later"?

[Zorblag]

@Nachomamma8, for Amished's tell, I was in one of the games when he used it first, though it had already been refined by then (unless you're talking about something else.) Here's how he described it at the time:

For those of you that don't know what's going on; I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum. This is a refinement from what I had it (if you read your replacement at all you were scum); but this seems to cover all the instances where I've seen/remember it. If you're town, you really don't have to worry about your predecessor as you know they're town; but if you think that they're scummy; then you're scum. As town, you know that you're not scummy and don't deserve criticism at all.

I don't believe that applies in this case (when I asked him about specific cases in the game based on my earliest instances of replacing in for town he explicitly ruled out noting inactivity.) In any case, I find calling someone scummy for having read their predecessors game when replacing in to be unimpressive. It's something I'll do every game and, really shouldn't be that uncommon.

Amished was an excellent player and a pleasure to play with, but I think he was overconfident in that tell.

...

And that's how far I got before I had to take a 45 minute break to rock a particularly fussy baby. Let's cut to the chase.

I believe that Nachomamma8 is playing a prosecutor's role for the case against foedufafa in his post. It's overblown.

I believe that Nachomamma8 and RachMarie are highly unlikely to be scum together. I've never seen a game where scum interacted like this as a team.

Nachomamma8 cares enough about this to be putting in more effort that he needs to and should as scum. Keeping RachMarie alive might have payoffs (she votes with him the rest of the game, she's a late mislynch that he just has to add a vote to in LyLo to win, etc ...) but his position without this move was good enough that I don't think scum would bother.

What does that all mean? Even though I hate hate hate the play coming from RachMarie I'm going to let her be town at this point. This isn't to say that I dislike RachMarie; to the contrary I find her as a person quite pleasant, but this play this game. Ugg. Letting it go really hurts. But I'm going to do it because I'm not here to punish bad play, but rather to catch scum. We are going to talk about this after the game is over, but for my purposes right now, if she's fooled Nachomamma8 that's going to be enough to be fooling me as well.

foedufafa might be scum so he'll do for the lynch today. I still hate some of innocentvillager's play as well, but I'm not going to switch back to him for now as despite not showing up at the end of the day again, I like what he was doing at the end. Nachomamma8 is probably wrong about ecane as a partner for foedufafa, but I'm not going to get into that now. It doesn't matter for today and I'm not overly optimistic about being killed tonight right now, so I'm probably around tomorrow to talk about it.

UNVOTE: RachMarie

VOTE: foedufafa

The rest of the town had better not let this day end in a no lynch. If I need to I'll be back to switch back to RachMarie, but please, if you're town, get here and play. Don't make this day end like day 1 did.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RachMarie]

and that my friends is why I am town reading Troll and would be very upset if you all lynched him

seriously

hes town so is Nacho

[innocentvillager]

Hey sorry prodge, am busyt his weekend will post monday.

[innocentvillager]

Inno was unnecessary stalling with his reasoning on why he is so sure Foe is town, which turned out to be just a bad reasoning, and I don't see how misguiding like that helps town. It was obviosuly not stopping Foe from getting lynched, which he implied it would. Therefore, there was literally no need for him to be waiting to out that reasoning if he's town.
He is obviously not getting lynched today. A no lynch is probably not in our best interests. From Rach and foe, Rach seems scummier. If Rach gets lynched today and she flips scum they yeah, Inno-Rach team is probably not happening. More I'm reading Rach's posts though, more scummy they seem. She seems to be avoiding a hell of a lot stuff, and acknowledging all those that I probably wouldn't mind much not being acknowledged.

And actually, probably will get into this a little more:

I hate this post. In this post you lay out a very clear case for IV being scum and you show pretty decent conviction in believing that he is scum. You then immediately lay that conviction aside (which I feel is unnatural) to say that he is never getting lynched today; do you say that simply because you made a case once and then you didn't post again to push it? Why haven't you even tried to address or figure out why people are reading him as town? You then move from IV as your top suspect in this post to Rach as your top suspect and pretty freely acknowledge that they probably aren't scum together; what on earth is this about? If you were town, I don't think you'd be so happy to drop your IV read and move to Rach; it looks like you're taking advantage of the Rach wagon because it's there and will resume pushing your IV case once Rach flips town.

It also really bothers me that you didn't even acknowledge my Foe case; you asked for it, I know you saw it since this forum doesn't let you post without looking at the posts above you, but you didn't even see it worthy of a "hey Nacho I see your case I'll respond to it later"?

I actually agree with this like word for word

VOTE: ecane

Serious fos this time.

Rach is town, I'll sheep Nacho. Nacho underscored my one doubt about Rach too that she was town, and I like his case for town!Rach.

[RachMarie]

what about foe? are you really that sold on a town foe that you are willing to risk a NL Inno?

[Zorblag]

So innocentvillager has made it harder to lynch RachMarie and not helped in lynching foedufafa. That mostly helps us no lynch today. That's unfortunate as this is not the time for fos votes (are those even a thing since I left? They seem some combination of redundant and self-contradictory.)

We do not want to no lynch on day 2. Town should get here and prevent that from happening.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Foxbird]

We're

not

nolynching. Foe should be on L-1, right? I'll intent/hammer later today if necessary, I'll be awake for the full 12 hours til deadline.

Inno's vote on ecane is super weird. Not sure what to think of it.

[Zorblag]

@Foxbird, you should give intent now if that's the case. Much as I hate it, we potentially need time to react to any claim and time is now an issue.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Foxbird]

@Foxbird, you should give intent now if that's the case. Much as I hate it, we potentially need time to react to any claim and time is now an issue.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Oh yeah. Stupid time.

Intent to hammer

[RachMarie]

thank you fox

Uhh in before it is a foe/inno team? I know we need a flip but that is just weird

[Nachomamma8]

Deadline is in 8 hours; please be aware of it.

[RachMarie]

fox please just hammer

[Foxbird]

I set an alarm on my PC to remind me to hammer one hour before deadline.

But I can hammer now if you think we're not getting any info before that anyway.

[RachMarie]

yeah go ahead and hammer I dont think dude is gonna post more

[Nachomamma8]

As long as you're aware of the deadline, no real problems in waiting. Would cry for a hammer and an early flip, though.

[RachMarie]

yeah I am just concerned sigh Hiplop promised to hammer and we ended up with a nl and I ended up investigating the doc instead of one of the dudes I had planned on investigating in Newbie 1222 and the irony is BOTH guys I wanted to investigate were the scum team

[Foxbird]

Would cry for a hammer and an early flip, though.

My knowledge of the English language fails me: Does this mean you want the hammer now or not? :')

[RachMarie]

he is happy with you hammering now or before deadline but HAMMER for all that is holy

I dont want to see this turn into days of NL like Newbie 1222

Glares at Inno

[Zorblag]

Once, when I was scum, I beat Nachomamma8 because town failed to hammer me at deadline in LYLO. That's one of the things that I was reminded of when I went to look for innocentvillager's mythical bitmap.

In future days we should work hard to get things done earlier so that we don't have to deal with deadlines in this way. There's really no good reason to get to deadline in these games.

I'm also fine with a hammer at any point now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Foxbird]

VOTE: foe

[RachMarie]

woot

TY

[Zaicon]

Final Vote Count - Day 2

foedufafa (5):

Nachomamma8, Jaack, RachMarie, Zorblag, Foxbird

RachMarie (1):

foedufafa

innocentvillager (1):

ecane

ecane (1):

innocentvillager

No Vote (0)

foedufafa,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched!

It is now Night 2. The deadline is Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-08-16 16:00:00).