Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[AstralFlare]

I'm feeling very strongly that Chrimi and tne are opposite alignment now

I wouldn't say so. Yes, if TNE flips scum, Chrimi is pretty much confirmed town. There's no reason for scum!Chrimi to push a wagon so hard on her partner over something as common as lurking.

Rocnix: You mentioned in your readlist that TNE was null. So was your vote of TNE several pages after to pressure into more activity, or because you genuinely thought her as scum?

[innocentvillager]

Prodding Rocnix.

	VOTECOUNT 1.4
Player	Being voted by (in chronological order)	Number of Votes
1. Jibs
2. AstralFlare
3. PenguinPower
4. 0x40	thenewearth	1
5. Rocnix	PenguinPower	1
6. Chrimi	0x40	1
7. thenewearth	AstralFlare, Rocnix, implosion, Chrimi	4 (L-1!!)
8. shannon
9. implosion

Not voting: Jibs, shannon

Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-08-21 21:23:28).

With 9 eligible to vote, it's 5 to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.

[Jibs]

Hello all, couldn't sleep.

I rescind my intent to hammer

All the cryptic stuff kind of fried my brain, so I forgot about the basic mechanics of the lynch. I am very worried about there being scum on that wagon.

Please don't claim tne.

[shannon]

What cryptic stuff?

[PenguinPower]

Hello all, couldn't sleep.

I rescind my intent to hammer

All the cryptic stuff kind of fried my brain, so I forgot about the basic mechanics of the lynch. I am very worried about there being scum on that wagon.

Please don't claim tne.

4 on...why are you suddenly very worried?

[Jibs]

VOTE: implosion

4 on...why are you suddenly very worried?

Part of it is that Chrimi seems really nonchalant about voting with her top scum, and AF is quite nonchalant about voting with imp, who he is suspicious of. I also worry about imp's vote, since it feels like he adjusted his reads so that he wouldn't have to vote with his top scum. Finally, I agree that it would be very weird for Rocnix to play this way as scum, but this feels like a weird game to begin with.

To be honest, tne could definitely still be scum, as per shannon and Chrimi's points. I don't agree at all with her comments about night kills, if I'm looking at the game right, and she needs some reads.

[thenewearth]

Also seriously though... 0x40 has still not posted anything relevant

I'm not lazy today so lets see his posts 1 by 1

#71: Late RVS
#75: Still in RVS I guess
#92: Realize that he's still not RVS'ing"

#93:
#94:
#96:
#101
#107:
#108:
#114:
#124:
#130:
#132:
#135:
#138:
#140:
#143:
#146:
#152:

If its not clear enough to you

TL;DR It means the posts are nothing

Literally hollow posts masquerading as arguements

#218: Still in over his head about the argument.


rest of the posts are irrelevant because either:

1) They're really stupid arguements
2) They're Hollow and have NO MEANING, whatsoever


His readlist in #251 is almost irrelevant and hypocritical
1) Jibs read applies to him. Overconfident, No real reason to actually townread or scumread anyone
2) Chrimi read applies to him. He, too, is not scumhunting very much

[thenewearth]

TL;DR

If you're townreading 0x40 for his so called "content", you're blinded by the chrimi interactions. If you actually look into it deeper he hasn't actually done jack shit

[thenewearth]

Are you saying that 164 made shannon look more scum or more town? I don't understand how it could be alignment indicative in any way--it's clear that shannon made 51 with the intent to post something like 164 later, but that doesn't say anything about her alignment.

It was a complete jump in like... 2 posts or someshit

I've always disliked this reasoning.

Btw, its a personal preference.

[thenewearth]

Also if someone pulls that "TNE is defending Chrimi way too much she must be scumpartners with her" bullshit I swear to fuck you need to step up your misrep game more

Because that's the weakest misrep I'll ever see

[thenewearth]

@Astralflare: I can't read jack shit because of your multiquoting so

What was your question again?

[thenewearth]

Oh, Also none of that "Wow beetle juice hurr scum on L-1" argument neither

Some people have what you call "Life" to deal with

[implosion]

Part of it is that Chrimi seems really nonchalant about voting with her top scum, and AF is quite nonchalant about voting with imp, who he is suspicious of. I also worry about imp's vote, since it feels like he adjusted his reads so that he wouldn't have to vote with his top scum. Finally, I agree that it would be very weird for Rocnix to play this way as scum, but this feels like a weird game to begin with.

This is an interesting way of looking at things but isn't typically how I like to approach day one in particular; we have so little information that not wanting to vote with someone because you think they're scum just seems silly to me. Votecount analysis is useful later but not at this point.

tne's string of posting just now is pretty good. I think I prefer to swing a PP wagon right now; I really dislike the way he's posturing around the tne wagon. He called her null and then started criticizing things she was doing but never really committed, either to calling her scum or voting her or declaring intent to hammer. It looks to me like he doesn't want to impede the tne wagon, but doesn't want to appear committed to it or responsible for it in the event that it is hammered. This is further bolstered by his most recent post in which he asks Jibs why he's so worried about hammering, while Penguin doesn't offer to hammer himself or really give a strong sense of where he's at with regards to his opinion on tne yet. Overall the way he's playing around the wagon feels like scum who wants a mislynch but doesn't want to be on it.

tne overall reads as having a lot of genuine conviction, which could come from scum who thinks that 0x40 is town who does look objectively scummy, but It's still some amount townish. I think it is a bit more likely that she is just town who isn't sure why people don't see what she sees.

Unvote

VOTE: Penguin

I'll of course re-evaluate my townreads more later as well. But penguin is also the only player who has yet to really do anything that strikes me significantly as town.

[Jibs]

Hello imp.

This is an interesting way of looking at things but isn't typically how I like to approach day one in particular; we have so little information that not wanting to vote with someone because you think they're scum just seems silly to me. Votecount analysis is useful later but not at this point.

Okay, I will keep this in mind. Even if tne turns out to be scum, I will still probably feel okay about not hammering, though.

tne's string of posting just now is pretty good.

She's not off the hook for me.

I think I prefer to swing a PP wagon right now; I really dislike the way he's posturing around the tne wagon. He called her null and then started criticizing things she was doing but never really committed, either to calling her scum or voting her or declaring intent to hammer. It looks to me like he doesn't want to impede the tne wagon, but doesn't want to appear committed to it or responsible for it in the event that it is hammered. This is further bolstered by his most recent post in which he asks Jibs why he's so worried about hammering, while Penguin doesn't offer to hammer himself or really give a strong sense of where he's at with regards to his opinion on tne yet. Overall the way he's playing around the wagon feels like scum who wants a mislynch but doesn't want to be on it.

I understand your points here, but I am way too paranoid right now to follow you. I am a bit surprised pp didn't vote me, as either alignment.

I'll of course re-evaluate my townreads more later as well.

^__^ Not a bad idea, there are only 7 town in this game.

[PenguinPower]

He called her null and then started criticizing things she was doing but never really committed, either to calling her scum or voting her or declaring intent to hammer.

Why would I call her scum, vote, or declare an intent to hammer on my null read - who was a null read due to not providing any information - who had still not provided any information? I am still waiting for something substantive, but I'm not going to be responsible for a PR outing or a mislynch on someone who I don't even had a weak scum lean on. I criticized her play because it's not helpful, but it's NAI at this point - with 5 days still remaining.

It looks to me like he doesn't want to impede the tne wagon, but doesn't want to appear committed to it or responsible for it in the event that it is hammered.

I don't want to be responsible for it at all. I didn't need - or have the chance - to impede, because the intent was placed and removed before I had a chance to see it. I did question that move as nothing occurred between when it was placed and removed. I also didn't see anything wrong with having tne at L-1 because then she may finally post something.

This is further bolstered by his most recent post in which he asks Jibs why he's so worried about hammering, while Penguin doesn't offer to hammer himself or really give a strong sense of where he's at with regards to his opinion on tne yet.

See above.

tne overall reads as having a lot of genuine conviction, which could come from scum who thinks that 0x40 is town who does look objectively scummy, but It's still some amount townish. I think it is a bit more likely that she is just town who isn't sure why people don't see what she sees.

I think it's townish because you want to see it as townish. I don't see genuine conviction.

But penguin is also the only player who has yet to really do anything that strikes me significantly as town.

Really? 0x40 has done things that strike you significantly as town? Rocnix? Tne? Their contributions have been significantly town? To call their contributions townish, and to say that I have done nothing townish, is ridiculous.

I am a bit surprised pp didn't vote me, as either alignment.

Absent a scumslip, significant new information, or us getting within 72 hours of deadline, I don't see my vote changing until Rocnix - or her slot - returns and starts participating. You're still on my watchlist.

[Chrimi]

Yeah because making it easier for scum to NK the towniest player is the greatest contribution

bzzt

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

The goal of this game isn't to live longer than the rest of town, it's to kill the scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

Yes, AF is still scum.

You going to reply to this, TNE?

Also

@Mod: Please prod Rocnix for us ^^

[thenewearth]

But as long as you continue contributing a shitty amount, scum doesn't need to kill you because you won't be helping out.

Horrible misrep

This is the scenario:

Say, player X is townread by 11/13 players. Who wouldn't want to kill someone who's Universally townread? Maybe... Fear of having a PR?
Change the scenario a bit, player X is townread by 11/13, scum kill player Y because fear of PR, they hit town doc, next night you wouldn't be surprised that player X is dead

So giving out townreads is something I don't usually do. Sometimes I do it but not this game

[thenewearth]

I actually hate answering that because that kinda destroys the point

Sooooo

Thanks :/

[Chrimi]

I actually hate answering that because that kinda destroys the point

Sooooo

Thanks :/

Your logic here is horrible and implosion already explained why. Please stop withholding very useful information from town

[PenguinPower]

Alright...tne is town. 1723 just wrapped up. Exact same play style. Can you please start participating a bit more? Your behavior there got you lynched D1.

[shannon]

Quickie update because I"m just reading over lunch and have like 10 mins.

TNE has moved up my town list with her latest posts. I am feeling a bit off about Implosion and about 0x40, given what I said about the 'round robin' voting and how TNE has pointed out that 0x40 has done next to nothing useful so far. I feel like implosion is just smoothing over any issues raised about him and it feels a bit off putting. "It's the vibe of the thing", as they say. I'll try to be more specific when I can make a substantive post later tonight or tomorrow.

Regarding Rocnix: If she comes back from this prod and it becomes a 'thing' that she needs prodding but never actually gets replaced, I'd vote to lynch on policy. I've twice had it happen where someone (town) did this and in both cases it only helped scum. (They eventually replaced at the 3P LYLO stage, and it was a disaster - much better to have offed them early and got on with things).

[implosion]

Why would I call her scum, vote, or declare an intent to hammer on my null read - who was a null read due to not providing any information - who had still not provided any information? I am still waiting for something substantive, but I'm not going to be responsible for a PR outing or a mislynch on someone who I don't even had a weak scum lean on. I criticized her play because it's not helpful, but it's NAI at this point - with 5 days still remaining.

I mean, in 335, you very heavily imply that you find tne's behavior scummy, asking "it's scummy to do this, right?"

The fact that you implicitly called her behavior scummy and then your next two posts continued being very critical, to me, imply that you were scumreading her, not nullreading her.

And this is what I see as scummy: you keep saying that you nullread her. Yet you've spent most of your time recently up until I attacked you criticizing her posting, and are even criticizing my reasons for townreading her and calling them into question. Those aren't the actions that I feel like you'd be spending most of your time on if you were really town with a nullread on tne; I feel like you would be more interested in trying to determine tne's alignment, or the alignments of those on the wagon, or something like that. Jabbing at tne's play and questioning townreads on her while you have a nullread on her and don't want to apply any additional pressure is more or less wasted effort, and the fact that you were specifically criticizing my reasons for townreading her but haven't been calling anyone's scumreads of her into question just doesn't seem consistent with your claim of having a nullread.

I don't want to be responsible for it at all. I didn't need - or have the chance - to impede, because the intent was placed and removed before I had a chance to see it. I did question that move as nothing occurred between when it was placed and removed. I also didn't see anything wrong with having tne at L-1 because then she may finally post something.

I mean, just because the wagon is at L-1, even with intent, doesn't mean you can't impede it if you did think tne was town. But this is a moot point.

I think it's townish because you want to see it as townish. I don't see genuine conviction.

For me I really do see it as genuine conviction - the issue is whether or not it's town-motivated. I really do think she is either town who has conviction that 0x40 is scum, or scum who has conviction that 0x40 deserves to be lynched for his play.

Really? 0x40 has done things that strike you significantly as town? Rocnix? Tne? Their contributions have been significantly town? To call their contributions townish, and to say that I have done nothing townish, is ridiculous.

Towntelling isn't just about contributing; nothing you've said so far has really read to me as particularly indicative of town, whereas I can cite things (and have cited things in my ISO) for all of those players you listed that I believe are indicative of town. Even if you're town, in what way is it ridiculous of me to have those reads? It'd simply mean that more of my reads are incorrect.

When I get a bit of time I'll probably relook over your full ISO and see what I think of it.

[implosion]

Alright...tne is town. 1723 just wrapped up. Exact same play style. Can you please start participating a bit more? Your behavior there got you lynched D1.

I am curious about this though - were you just randomly meta-ing her?

[thenewearth]

I actually hate answering that because that kinda destroys the point

Sooooo

Thanks :/

Your logic here is horrible and implosion already explained why. Please stop withholding very useful information from town

THE MOMENT SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING REMOTELY TOWNY IS THE ONLY MOMENT I'LL TOWNREAD SOMEONE

[thenewearth]

Misreading someone as scum is bad

but

Misreading someone as town is worse